Alignment Results: M3 bits + Strut Pin Removal

nitehawk · 08-25-2012, 03:49 PM

Hi guys,

I recently had the M3 front arms installed (wishbone links, tension rods). At the same time, I decided to remove my alignment pin to maximize gains in negative camber (still on OEM shocks/springs). I asked my tech to push in the struts to the inside as much as possible and towards the front of the car.

Check out the results. I gained maybe -0.1-0.2 from removing the pin. However, to my surprise, I managed to gain ~0.5 degree of caster (assuming stock is at 7.5 deg)

.
Also, I'm not sure why the report indicates the caster increased after the alignment since, he only adjusted toe up front. Equipment variance?
Anybody else been able to run this much caster on a stock setup? Either way, I'm happy since it helps in high speed stability.

In the rear, I had installed Megan Racing adjustable toe arms. However, the tech only needed to adjust the bolt to get the toe values to where they are. Overall, I think the numbers look good.

CJ421 · 08-25-2012, 09:50 PM

Overall looks fine. Camber looks good. I no longer know the standard toe alignment specs for toe; I run just a tad in the rear and zero up front. Yours shouldn't cause more than normal wear.

vasillalov · 08-25-2012, 11:55 PM

I have the same setup as you: M3 control arms and tension rods and no alignment pin. The alignment shop maxed out the camber to -1.4 front and -2.5 rear.

You should be able to get -1.5 on the front.

lbernielu · 08-26-2012, 12:14 AM

My research indicated that if you increase camber and have toe in set in the higher ranges, there will be increased wear as the tires are "dragged" when going straight. When I increased camber front and back after lowering, I had the toe alignment set closer to M3 minimum specifications.

nitehawk · 08-26-2012, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ421

Overall looks fine. Camber looks good. I no longer know the standard toe alignment specs for toe; I run just a tad in the rear and zero up front. Yours shouldn't cause more than normal wear.

Yeah, I asked them to set the toe closest to the default nominal. Do you keep your toe settings near zero to minimize wear?

nitehawk · 08-26-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbernielu

My research indicated that if you increase camber and have toe in set in the higher ranges, there will be increased wear as the tires are "dragged" when going straight. When I increased camber front and back after lowering, I had the toe alignment set closer to M3 minimum specifications.

Do you remember what the M3 toe specs are?

nitehawk · 08-26-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I have the same setup as you: M3 control arms and tension rods and no alignment pin. The alignment shop maxed out the camber to -1.4 front and -2.5 rear.

You should be able to get -1.5 on the front.

Yeah, that's what I was aiming for. It may just be the technique used to push the strut inwards. I may play with it more later on.

CJ421 · 08-26-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitehawk

Yeah, I asked them to set the toe closest to the default nominal. Do you keep your toe settings near zero to minimize wear?

Yes, zero toe in the front with just a touch of toe-in in the rear.

lbernielu · 08-26-2012, 09:58 PM

I saw a chart for a 2008 M3 that specified minimums of .03 degrees for the front and not more than .10, and .10 to .20 for the rears, but cannot vouch for its accuracy. You may want to try asking the dealer for 335i and M3 specifications.

O degrees front is probably OK if you are willing to tolerate some wandering on long straights on the freeway - I requested .04 on each front wheel. More toe appears to be needed on the rears for safety reasons - straight line stability and possibly predictability in cornering. I specified .07 for each wheel.

NiVeDh · 08-26-2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I have the same setup as you: M3 control arms and tension rods and no alignment pin. The alignment shop maxed out the camber to -1.4 front and -2.5 rear.

You should be able to get -1.5 on the front.

Good info, thanks.

uniter · 08-27-2012, 01:45 PM

Alignment targets suggested by Harold at HP Autowerks
Front toe 1/16" in total
Camber as much as you can, but not more than -1.5 for street use

Rear toe 3/16" in
Rear camber -

From: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513544

nitehawk · 08-30-2012, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbernielu

I saw a chart for a 2008 M3 that specified minimums of .03 degrees for the front and not more than .10, and .10 to .20 for the rears, but cannot vouch for its accuracy. You may want to try asking the dealer for 335i and M3 specifications.

O degrees front is probably OK if you are willing to tolerate some wandering on long straights on the freeway - I requested .04 on each front wheel. More toe appears to be needed on the rears for safety reasons - straight line stability and possibly predictability in cornering. I specified .07 for each wheel.

Thanks. I don't mind sacrificing tire wear for added stability/predictability, if wear is the only downside of running higher toe.

nitehawk · 08-30-2012, 06:52 AM

Anyone running over 8 degrees caster on a stock sport suspension?

PSUSMU · 08-30-2012, 07:57 AM

You should get over -1* camber up front with stock components... I have -1.1 with stock arms and pin.

mlifxs · 08-30-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUSMU

You should get over -1* camber up front with stock components... I have -1.1 with stock arms and pin.

-1.1 sounds great. Did you do it yourself or have a shop set it for you?

PSUSMU · 08-30-2012, 08:24 AM

A shop with a Hunter alignment machine

nitehawk · 08-31-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUSMU

You should get over -1* camber up front with stock components... I have -1.1 with stock arms and pin.

Wow, that's rather odd. Are you sure you're control arm bushings are not worn?

PSUSMU · 08-31-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitehawk

Wow, that's rather odd. Are you sure you're control arm bushings are not worn?

Yes, the car had 15k miles on it.

08-25-2012, 03:49 PM	#1
nitehawk Lieutenant Colonel 102 Rep 1,903 Posts Drives: e92 335i 6MT Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toronto iTrader: (15) Garage List E92 BMW 335i [9.00] E92 BMW 335i \| Retired [10.00]	Alignment Results: M3 bits + Strut Pin Removal Hi guys, I recently had the M3 front arms installed (wishbone links, tension rods). At the same time, I decided to remove my alignment pin to maximize gains in negative camber (still on OEM shocks/springs). I asked my tech to push in the struts to the inside as much as possible and towards the front of the car. Check out the results. I gained maybe -0.1-0.2 from removing the pin. However, to my surprise, I managed to gain ~0.5 degree of caster (assuming stock is at 7.5 deg) . Also, I'm not sure why the report indicates the caster increased after the alignment since, he only adjusted toe up front. Equipment variance? Anybody else been able to run this much caster on a stock setup? Either way, I'm happy since it helps in high speed stability. In the rear, I had installed Megan Racing adjustable toe arms. However, the tech only needed to adjust the bolt to get the toe values to where they are. Overall, I think the numbers look good. Attached Images
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

08-25-2012, 09:50 PM	#2
CJ421 Brigadier General 1567 Rep 4,109 Posts Drives: BMW M3 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Blue Bell, PA iTrader: (1) Garage List 2024 BMW M3 Sedan [9.50]	Overall looks fine. Camber looks good. I no longer know the standard toe alignment specs for toe; I run just a tad in the rear and zero up front. Yours shouldn't cause more than normal wear. __________________ 2024 BMW M3 Sedan Frozen Pure Grey II/Fjord Blue, 6MT Past: 2021 Z4 M40i Frozen Grey II/Black Alcantara \| 2017 F30 340i Mineral Gray/Coral Red, 6MT \| 2011 E92 335i Le Mans Blue/Black, 6MT
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-25-2012, 11:55 PM	#3
vasillalov Mad Linux Guru On The Loose 1128 Rep 5,400 Posts Drives: 2008 335i Sedan, 2023 M3 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL iTrader: (5) Garage List 2023 BMW M3 [0.00] 2008 335i E90 [8.00]	I have the same setup as you: M3 control arms and tension rods and no alignment pin. The alignment shop maxed out the camber to -1.4 front and -2.5 rear. You should be able to get -1.5 on the front. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-26-2012, 12:14 AM	#4
lbernielu Private 0 Rep 71 Posts Drives: 2006 330i, sp, Bilstein, H&R Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sacramento iTrader: (0)	My research indicated that if you increase camber and have toe in set in the higher ranges, there will be increased wear as the tires are "dragged" when going straight. When I increased camber front and back after lowering, I had the toe alignment set closer to M3 minimum specifications.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-26-2012, 09:58 PM	#9
lbernielu Private 0 Rep 71 Posts Drives: 2006 330i, sp, Bilstein, H&R Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sacramento iTrader: (0)	I saw a chart for a 2008 M3 that specified minimums of .03 degrees for the front and not more than .10, and .10 to .20 for the rears, but cannot vouch for its accuracy. You may want to try asking the dealer for 335i and M3 specifications. O degrees front is probably OK if you are willing to tolerate some wandering on long straights on the freeway - I requested .04 on each front wheel. More toe appears to be needed on the rears for safety reasons - straight line stability and possibly predictability in cornering. I specified .07 for each wheel.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-27-2012, 01:45 PM	#11
uniter Black on Black on Black. 38 Rep 532 Posts Drives: 335i/6mt Sport,Nav,Prem. Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Hope, PA iTrader: (1)	Alignment targets suggested by Harold at HP Autowerks Front toe 1/16" in total Camber as much as you can, but not more than -1.5 for street use Rear toe 3/16" in Rear camber - From: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513544 __________________ LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::BIEHNTUNE FLASH::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::OS GIKEN 1.5 WAY::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-30-2012, 06:52 AM	#13
nitehawk Lieutenant Colonel 102 Rep 1,903 Posts Drives: e92 335i 6MT Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toronto iTrader: (15) Garage List E92 BMW 335i [9.00] E92 BMW 335i \| Retired [10.00]	Anyone running over 8 degrees caster on a stock sport suspension?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-30-2012, 07:57 AM	#14
PSUSMU Captain 95 Rep 985 Posts Drives: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Falls Church/Merrifield, VA iTrader: (3)	You should get over -1* camber up front with stock components... I have -1.1 with stock arms and pin.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-30-2012, 08:24 AM	#16
PSUSMU Captain 95 Rep 985 Posts Drives: 2008 Porsche 911 Carrera S Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Falls Church/Merrifield, VA iTrader: (3)	A shop with a Hunter alignment machine
	Appreciate 0 Quote