[auburnf30x]

For those interested, and those thinking about ditching the BMW spec oil for something you can easily find locally. Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-30 shows great results on a 5K oil change interval on my stock 2017 B48. Found all day long for $23.00 for five quarts at Walmart.

I’m sure there’s a better, more technical way to post this, but I’m too lazy.

[Th3Walrus]

PP Euro 5w30 is LL-04, not LL-01.
5w40 is LL-01.

[auburnf30x]

Originally Posted by Th3Walrus

PP Euro 5w30 is LL-04, not LL-01.
5w40 is LL-01.

Either one is a lot cheaper than the LL-14/17 stuff.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by Th3Walrus

PP Euro 5w30 is LL-04, not LL-01.
5w40 is LL-01.

And this does not matter, whatsoever.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by sspade

And this does not matter, whatsoever.

Incorrect.

The Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 is vastly superior to the 5w30 variant.

The 5w40 version has porsche a40 (the insane multi hour nordschliffe and the oil must not degrade and there must be sufficient engine protection) and MB 229.5 certifications which are both the most stringent certifications possible, in addition to ll01 which is the most stringent for oxidation and timing chain wear is a big factor too.

So certifications do matter.

[auburnf30x]

All that may be true, but on a stock B48 whose primary purpose is to get me to my office job, on a 5k OCI, as the numbers show it does the job just fine.

If you’re modified, or track your car, you probably want to be a little tighter on the spec.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by F87source

Incorrect.

The Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 is vastly superior to the 5w30 variant.

The 5w40 version has porsche a40 (the insane multi hour nordschliffe and the oil must not degrade and there must be sufficient engine protection) and MB 229.5 certifications which are both the most stringent certifications possible, in addition to ll01 which is the most stringent for oxidation and timing chain wear is a big factor too.

So certifications do matter.

You can also get Castrol Edge 5w-40 at Walmart for $25/5 quarts. Certified and much less expensive than Pennzoil.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by auburnf30x

All that may be true, but on a stock B48 whose primary purpose is to get me to my office job, on a 5k OCI, as the numbers show it does the job just fine.

If you’re modified, or track your car, you probably want to be a little tighter on the spec.

As long as there's adequate oil quantity and oil pressure of certified oil, you'll be fine at the track.

The real problems come when someone runs R compound tires on the track and pull high Gs in a sustained sweeper and starve a non M car engine of oil.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

You can also get Castrol Edge 5w-40 at Walmart for $25/5 quarts. Certified and much less expensive than Pennzoil.

Quaker state euro 5w40 which is rebranded Pennzoil is available for $19, and it's better than castrol 5w40.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

As long as there's adequate oil quantity and oil pressure of certified oil, you'll be fine at the track.

Incorrect there is much more to it than just that, when temperatures get high your oil can shear. Hence why you must be careful about the oil you choose. The higher the hths rating the less likely shearing will occur which means more protection for your bearings. So for track oils you want higher hths ratings.


Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 has an hths of 3.8, so does motul xcess gen 2 and these are 2 very good oils and have Porsche a40 certifications so they are both track capable.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by F87source

Incorrect.

The Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 is vastly superior to the 5w30 variant.

The 5w40 version has porsche a40 (the insane multi hour nordschliffe and the oil must not degrade and there must be sufficient engine protection) and MB 229.5 certifications which are both the most stringent certifications possible, in addition to ll01 which is the most stringent for oxidation and timing chain wear is a big factor too.

So certifications do matter.

No. They really dont.

BMW switches these around as a way to make money. One year an oil is approved, next year its not when the formulation hasn't changed.

Seems like you've fallen victim to clever marketing.

[sspade]

Been using Mobil 0W40 and now Castrol for close to 100k combined on the N20 with great results and two lab tests from Blackstone.

Porsche A40 cert = Very good oil right?!

Twenty five dollars at Walmart.

[Th3Walrus]

Originally Posted by sspade

And this does not matter, whatsoever.

Yes, it does. In addition to what F87source said, using LL-04 in North America with higher sulfur content fuels requires more frequent oil changes (<7500miles).

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

As long as there's adequate oil quantity and oil pressure of certified oil, you'll be fine at the track.

The real problems come when someone runs R compound tires on the track and pull high Gs in a sustained sweeper and starve a non M car engine of oil.

Originally Posted by F87source

Incorrect there is much more to it than just that, when temperatures get high your oil can shear. Hence why you must be careful about the oil you choose. The higher the hths rating the less likely shearing will occur which means more protection for your bearings. So for track oils you want higher hths ratings.


Pennzoil platinum euro 5w40 has an hths of 3.8, so does motul xcess gen 2 and these are 2 very good oils and have Porsche a40 certifications so they are both track capable.

Nearly all the engine failures that happen during track use isn't due to the shear difference between LL-01 certified engine oils.

It's from the engine being starved from oil due to the oil sump system design.

I have 140,000 miles on my N55 that has been tracked extensively. Either using Castrol 0w-40, 5w-40, or Mobil 1 0w-40.

Originally Posted by sspade

No. They really dont.

BMW switches these around as a way to make money. One year an oil is approved, next year its not when the formulation hasn't changed.

Seems like you've fallen victim to clever marketing.

[auburnf30x]

Originally Posted by Th3Walrus

Yes, it does. In addition to what F87source said, using LL-04 in North America with higher sulfur content fuels requires more frequent oil changes (<7500miles).

Oh, absolutely. I looked at the cost of the factory recommended oil and dropped a brick or two. After doing a good bit of research, I decided to run PP Euro 5W-30 on 5k OCI for a few reasons. It’s comfortably priced, easy to find, a quality product, easy to find anywhere, and a little thicker than the factory 0W-20 stuff. My personal opinion is that is too thin of a viscosity here in the very hot southeastern U.S. My final decision was to run this oil on a religious 5k OCI, and the lab report suggests this is a good plan. I’m sticking to 5k, even though the TBN suggests I could go longer. I wouldn’t recommend anyone else to run it longer than that, either.

My only complaint is that I have yet to find anyone who carries my oil filter locally other than the dealer. I still have to order those.

[Billfitz]

The main reason for the BMW LL designations, which are not oil industry designations, is to convince the uninformed that they need to use either BMW branded oil or oil from manufacturers who've paid BMW the requisite royalty to put the LL designation on the label. If BMW was being perfectly honest about the best oil to use they'd get rid of the LL nonsense and use API/ILSAC oil classifications. But honesty in marketing is as rare as honesty in politics.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

The main reason for the BMW LL designations, which are not oil industry designations, is to convince the uninformed that they need to use either BMW branded oil or oil from manufacturers who've paid BMW the requisite royalty to put the LL designation on the label. If BMW was being perfectly honest about the best oil to use they'd get rid of the LL nonsense and use API/ILSAC oil classifications. But honesty in marketing is as rare as honesty in politics.

Thats partially true. LL-01 does set a floor in specifications for oil such as HTHS ,NOACK, and detergents. At minimum, I would use LL-01 but there are better oils than LL-01 but they do not come cheap.

[Polo08816]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

Thats partially true. LL-01 does set a floor in specifications for oil such as HTHS ,NOACK, and detergents. At minimum, I would use LL-01 but there are better oils than LL-01 but they do not come cheap.

No matter how much an oil may exceed LL-01 specifications, if the oil sump system can't handle sustained high G sweepers, the engine will still be starved of oil and shit itself.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by sspade

No. They really dont.

BMW switches these around as a way to make money. One year an oil is approved, next year its not when the formulation hasn't changed.

Seems like you've fallen victim to clever marketing.

No, it's always based on oxidation, timing chain life it's not in a bid to make money. It's very cheap to have your oil certified by an OEM.


I've spent alot of time on BITOG and certifications are not just for money.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by sspade

Been using Mobil 0W40 and now Castrol for close to 100k combined on the N20 with great results and two lab tests from Blackstone.

Porsche A40 cert = Very good oil right?!

Twenty five dollars at Walmart.

Yes Castrol 0w40 is very good oil and not just because it has porsche a40..... It's because of it's insanely high Pao content, nearly 50% iirc.


Mobile 1 0w40 also has alot of pao, but it also has alot of saps which is not good for direct Injected cars.


Btw the n20 needs ll01 because they incorporate a timing chain test into it, and thus ll01 oils have restricted zinc levels as a result because zinc is not good for timing chains. Mobil 1 0w40 in addition to having too much saps for a di car, and Castrol 0w40 have very high zinc which is not recommended for the n20. The advice for this oil and use on bmws is use it on bmw engines where the timing chains were built correctly aka the n55 and s55.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Polo08816

Nearly all the engine failures that happen during track use isn't due to the shear difference between LL-01 certified engine oils.

It's from the engine being starved from oil due to the oil sump system design.

I have 140,000 miles on my N55 that has been tracked extensively. Either using Castrol 0w-40, 5w-40, or Mobil 1 0w-40.

Yes I know on non m sump cars oil starvation is the issue.


But simply saying if the oil level is topped up everything is fine is false. There is much more to it than that, and one of them is what type of oil you use. Try taking bmw ll01 FE to the track for a large number of sessions and tell me about bearing wear. FE fuels are only optimized for fuel economy not wear protection.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by auburnf30x

Oh, absolutely. I looked at the cost of the factory recommended oil and dropped a brick or two. After doing a good bit of research, I decided to run PP Euro 5W-30 on 5k OCI for a few reasons. It’s comfortably priced, easy to find, a quality product, easy to find anywhere, and a little thicker than the factory 0W-20 stuff. My personal opinion is that is too thin of a viscosity here in the very hot southeastern U.S. My final decision was to run this oil on a religious 5k OCI, and the lab report suggests this is a good plan. I’m sticking to 5k, even though the TBN suggests I could go longer. I wouldn’t recommend anyone else to run it longer than that, either.

My only complaint is that I have yet to find anyone who carries my oil filter locally other than the dealer. I still have to order those.

Yes it's fine to use PPE 5w30 vs. the thinner bmw oil, I only commented that ll01 matters and isn't a useless certification.

Ambient temperature has nothing to do with your oil weight, your cooling system will take care of oil temps. There's no place on earth hot enough that oil weights would have to be changed because of that in daily use scenarios, because the cooling system keeps things in check. However it's a good idea to get a thicker oil because bmw only went thinner to meet emissions.