8-speed AT gearbox lag

AMOR · 02-28-2016, 04:33 PM

I noticed there's a lag when you hit the gas from stand still on D mode, it's about 1-1.5 seconds. Changing to Sport mode does not help with this issue, only switching AT to S mode (shift gear lever to the left) makes things a little better. My previous car was 330i manual, so perhaps that's just me. But I was wondering if someone else has this issue? Somewhere I read that the AT transmission on X1 is made in Japan.

B+W · 02-28-2016, 06:08 PM

.

kconner5 · 02-29-2016, 06:48 AM

It's mostly the turbo lag off the line, also the transmission in D (not DS) basically puts itself into neutral to save parasitic drag on the motor and to extend the service life of the torque converter. If you're in DS everything is loaded up and will be much more eager to get off the line, although I don't recommend sitting stationary in DS for long periods of time.

Kyle

B+W · 02-29-2016, 07:05 AM

.

kconner5 · 02-29-2016, 07:15 AM

Our 428 8 speed ZF (the closest equivalent in the BMW drivetrain) does the same thing. If you brake boost it, you're fine. The MINIs do it too, pin it off the line in D and there's lag. Throw it in DS and you don't need to wait for everything to load back up first.

nickrice20 · 02-29-2016, 12:26 PM

My wife has actually complained multiple times about this. It is actually quite dangerous when you are trying to enter a busy roundabout or trying to merge onto a busy road. I don't really think it should be necessary to predict that the car is not going to respond in these situations. Hopefully a software update for the ECU can overcome this.

AMOR · 03-01-2016, 06:14 PM

I'm looking forward to do a ECU re-flash as soon as something decent becomes available. I wonder if they can reprogram AT also. BMW should have made Sport i-drive settings + S transmission mode as standard D driving mode on X1, simply because it's not a Nissan and we are expecting something different from a BMW.

ttimbo · 03-01-2016, 06:23 PM

Based on my experience as an early VW DGS owner, which had this same issue, it's really important that owners experiencing the problem make their dealer well aware -- otherwise any TCU reflash will be many months away. So don't suffer in silence!!

AMOR · 03-01-2016, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttimbo

Based on my experience as an early VW DGS owner, which had this same issue, it's really important that owners experiencing the problem make their dealer well aware -- otherwise any TCU reflash will be many months away. So don't suffer in silence!!

I'm not suffering, i'm just driving in the "S" mode 95% of the time

PF1 · 03-01-2016, 08:44 PM

Same issue with my Mercedes A Class with the 7G-DCT gearbox, to the point of being a danger when exiting busy intersections and merging with fast moving traffic (that's with start/stop off). Have to allow for the delay by hitting the accelator earlier. Accelerating harder just means more wheelspin after the initial delay. I don't let my wife drive it for that reason, as her current car (a non-turbo with a quick throttle response) behaves nothing like that.

AMOR · 03-01-2016, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynewx1

her current car (a non-turbo with a quick throttle response) behaves nothing like that.

I assume it has nothing to do with turbo, since that lag goes away after I shift AT to S mode. It may be bcoz of today's fashion for excessive fuel economy, a slight delay may be programmed as standard to launch the car more gradually, even when you hit the gas harder. This contributes to better numbers in fuel economy as a daily driver IMHO.

kconner5 · 03-01-2016, 10:01 PM

I've spent today trying to debug this issue... And it seems that the transmission just doesn't engage the torque converter fast enough... There should be an update to speed that process up, I also drove a Clubman S for comparison (I work for BMW MINI) and while the transmission did the same thing, there wasn't nearly as much lag.

Interesting stuff!

I'll make this issue known within my co-workers.

Kyle

ttimbo · 03-02-2016, 12:18 AM

Just to clarify, is this a delay because of the stop-start system, or is there a response delay in the transmission "engaging"? The responses above are a bit confusing.

The Beast · 03-02-2016, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynewx1

Same issue with my Mercedes A Class with the 7G-DCT gearbox, to the point of being a danger when exiting busy intersections and merging with fast moving traffic (that's with start/stop off). Have to allow for the delay by hitting the accelator earlier. Accelerating harder just means more wheelspin after the initial delay. I don't let my wife drive it for that reason, as her current car (a non-turbo with a quick throttle response) behaves nothing like that.

Yeah we have the A Class atm and the gearbox is terrible, shifts are pretty jerky too. I think DCT's are primarily designed to drive manually, our Golf DSG was the same. At least you can get over the X1 issues by selecting sport mode.

Vogit · 03-02-2016, 04:55 AM

Have to say I haven't noticed this with my 20D, even in Comfort mode. It might be driving style, as I'm used to avoiding embarrassing wheelspin in front wheel drive cars, so don't floor the throttle until the car's started to move.

What I find with the X1 is that as soon as I ease pressure on the brake the engine re-starts and the car moves off.

The hesitation before accelerating is something I have experienced with Volkswagen DCT transmissions, even on the latest Golf, which was one of the many reasons I went for the BMW.

Bill_P · 03-02-2016, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vogit

Have to say I haven't noticed this with my 20D, even in Comfort mode. It might be driving style, as I'm used to avoiding embarrassing wheelsman in front wheel drive cars, so don't floor the throttle until the car's started to move.

What I find with the X1 is that as soon as I ease pressure on the brake the engine re-starts and the car moves off.

The hesitation before accelerating is something I have experienced with Volkswagen DCT transmissions, even on the latest Golf, which was one of the many reasons I went for the BMW.

Thats good to hear Vogit. I have to say that when I had my testdrive I did not notice any lag at all. I was driving fairly moderately as the car only had six miles on the clock. The auto stop/start was not cutting in (I guess because the car was brand new).

The Beast · 03-02-2016, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill_P

Thats good to hear Vogit. I have to say that when I had my testdrive I did not notice any lag at all. I was driving fairly moderately as the car only had six miles on the clock. The auto stop/start was not cutting in (I guess because the car was brand new).

Come to think about it I didn't notice a lag on the test drive either... But will reserve judgement until I've driven ours in heavy traffic whilst entering busy junctions

ttimbo · 03-02-2016, 10:59 AM

Yes, I'm the same...no hesitation noticed on test drive. That's why I'm seeking clarification as to whether this is the stop-start system (I have this on my present car, and know to expect it, so anticipate it) or a separate hesitation due to the transmission.

If it is the stop-start system, well...that's a given in twenty-teen motoring, but at least you can deactivate it at the moment on a trip by trip basis. That's what I do if it bugging me. But a transmission hesitation is a bigger issue, and if I find it, I know it'll annoy me, and I'll start annoying BMW!

kconner5 · 03-02-2016, 11:05 AM

It does it with the stop start off... That's a separate thing... I never use start stop

cc3 · 03-02-2016, 11:28 AM

This is a usual BMW problem. There is a thread somewhere about resetting the software on the auto box. I tried it on my x3 and it helped. From memory you have the ignition on but engine not running and hold accelerator down for about 25 secs until you hear a click. Search Internet and you will find lots on it

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=639013

The Beast · 03-02-2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc3

This is a usual BMW problem. There is a thread somewhere about resetting the software on the auto box. I tried it on my x3 and it helped. From memory you have the ignition on but engine not running and hold accelerator down for about 25 secs until you hear a click. Search Internet and you will find lots on it

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=639013

I've reset the box on my F10 a number of times but not for hesitation off the line but due to the box learning from my driving style and the box starting to hold gears longer in D mode. In D I just want it to be smooth and shift up quickly... However the huge amount of torque the 530d puts out might be covering up any hesitation showing up in smaller engines. The only thing I would question about this is that other BMW's use ZF boxes and the F48 one is an Aisin box for transversely mounted engines.

ttimbo · 03-02-2016, 04:11 PM

Worth checking with a BMW tech, I reckon

02-28-2016, 04:33 PM	#1
AMOR First Lieutenant 102 Rep 352 Posts Drives: F90 Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA iTrader: (2)	8-speed AT gearbox lag I noticed there's a lag when you hit the gas from stand still on D mode, it's about 1-1.5 seconds. Changing to Sport mode does not help with this issue, only switching AT to S mode (shift gear lever to the left) makes things a little better. My previous car was 330i manual, so perhaps that's just me. But I was wondering if someone else has this issue? Somewhere I read that the AT transmission on X1 is made in Japan.
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02-28-2016, 06:08 PM	#2
B+W New Member 3 Rep 28 Posts Drives: N/A Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	. Last edited by B+W; 03-08-2016 at 10:04 AM..
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02-29-2016, 06:48 AM	#3
kconner5 Private First Class 308 Rep 149 Posts Drives: 2016 F80 Manual (ZCP) Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Fort Collins, CO iTrader: (0)	It's mostly the turbo lag off the line, also the transmission in D (not DS) basically puts itself into neutral to save parasitic drag on the motor and to extend the service life of the torque converter. If you're in DS everything is loaded up and will be much more eager to get off the line, although I don't recommend sitting stationary in DS for long periods of time. Kyle
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02-29-2016, 07:05 AM	#4
B+W New Member 3 Rep 28 Posts Drives: N/A Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	. Last edited by B+W; 03-08-2016 at 10:04 AM..
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02-29-2016, 07:15 AM	#5
kconner5 Private First Class 308 Rep 149 Posts Drives: 2016 F80 Manual (ZCP) Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Fort Collins, CO iTrader: (0)	Our 428 8 speed ZF (the closest equivalent in the BMW drivetrain) does the same thing. If you brake boost it, you're fine. The MINIs do it too, pin it off the line in D and there's lag. Throw it in DS and you don't need to wait for everything to load back up first.
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02-29-2016, 12:26 PM	#6
nickrice20 Private 22 Rep 50 Posts Drives: 2016 BMW X1 xDrive Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	My wife has actually complained multiple times about this. It is actually quite dangerous when you are trying to enter a busy roundabout or trying to merge onto a busy road. I don't really think it should be necessary to predict that the car is not going to respond in these situations. Hopefully a software update for the ECU can overcome this.
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03-01-2016, 06:14 PM	#7
AMOR First Lieutenant 102 Rep 352 Posts Drives: F90 Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: USA iTrader: (2)	I'm looking forward to do a ECU re-flash as soon as something decent becomes available. I wonder if they can reprogram AT also. BMW should have made Sport i-drive settings + S transmission mode as standard D driving mode on X1, simply because it's not a Nissan and we are expecting something different from a BMW.
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03-01-2016, 06:23 PM	#8
ttimbo Major 282 Rep 1,491 Posts Drives: F48 X1 25i AW; F20 M135i AW Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Based on my experience as an early VW DGS owner, which had this same issue, it's really important that owners experiencing the problem make their dealer well aware -- otherwise any TCU reflash will be many months away. So don't suffer in silence!! __________________ BMW F22 M240i; F48 X1 25i, BMW F20 M135i Peugeot T9 308 GTi 270 Renaultsport Megane 3 Trophy-R, Renault Clio Sport 182.
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03-01-2016, 08:44 PM	#10
PF1 Second Lieutenant 92 Rep 236 Posts Drives: F48 X1 xDrive25i M Sport Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Same issue with my Mercedes A Class with the 7G-DCT gearbox, to the point of being a danger when exiting busy intersections and merging with fast moving traffic (that's with start/stop off). Have to allow for the delay by hitting the accelator earlier. Accelerating harder just means more wheelspin after the initial delay. I don't let my wife drive it for that reason, as her current car (a non-turbo with a quick throttle response) behaves nothing like that. Last edited by PF1; 03-01-2016 at 08:50 PM..
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03-01-2016, 10:01 PM	#12
kconner5 Private First Class 308 Rep 149 Posts Drives: 2016 F80 Manual (ZCP) Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Fort Collins, CO iTrader: (0)	I've spent today trying to debug this issue... And it seems that the transmission just doesn't engage the torque converter fast enough... There should be an update to speed that process up, I also drove a Clubman S for comparison (I work for BMW MINI) and while the transmission did the same thing, there wasn't nearly as much lag. Interesting stuff! I'll make this issue known within my co-workers. Kyle
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03-02-2016, 12:18 AM	#13
ttimbo Major 282 Rep 1,491 Posts Drives: F48 X1 25i AW; F20 M135i AW Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Just to clarify, is this a delay because of the stop-start system, or is there a response delay in the transmission "engaging"? The responses above are a bit confusing. __________________ BMW F22 M240i; F48 X1 25i, BMW F20 M135i Peugeot T9 308 GTi 270 Renaultsport Megane 3 Trophy-R, Renault Clio Sport 182.
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03-02-2016, 04:55 AM	#15
Vogit Second Lieutenant 93 Rep 251 Posts Drives: X1 xDrive 20D xLine Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Tyne & Wear iTrader: (0)	Have to say I haven't noticed this with my 20D, even in Comfort mode. It might be driving style, as I'm used to avoiding embarrassing wheelspin in front wheel drive cars, so don't floor the throttle until the car's started to move. What I find with the X1 is that as soon as I ease pressure on the brake the engine re-starts and the car moves off. The hesitation before accelerating is something I have experienced with Volkswagen DCT transmissions, even on the latest Golf, which was one of the many reasons I went for the BMW. Last edited by Vogit; 03-02-2016 at 05:38 AM..
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03-02-2016, 10:59 AM	#18
ttimbo Major 282 Rep 1,491 Posts Drives: F48 X1 25i AW; F20 M135i AW Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Yes, I'm the same...no hesitation noticed on test drive. That's why I'm seeking clarification as to whether this is the stop-start system (I have this on my present car, and know to expect it, so anticipate it) or a separate hesitation due to the transmission. If it is the stop-start system, well...that's a given in twenty-teen motoring, but at least you can deactivate it at the moment on a trip by trip basis. That's what I do if it bugging me. But a transmission hesitation is a bigger issue, and if I find it, I know it'll annoy me, and I'll start annoying BMW! __________________ BMW F22 M240i; F48 X1 25i, BMW F20 M135i Peugeot T9 308 GTi 270 Renaultsport Megane 3 Trophy-R, Renault Clio Sport 182.
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03-02-2016, 11:05 AM	#19
kconner5 Private First Class 308 Rep 149 Posts Drives: 2016 F80 Manual (ZCP) Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Fort Collins, CO iTrader: (0)	It does it with the stop start off... That's a separate thing... I never use start stop
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03-02-2016, 11:28 AM	#20
cc3 Major 623 Rep 1,333 Posts Drives: 1M, GT4, M2 M140i G40 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: .UK iTrader: (0)	This is a usual BMW problem. There is a thread somewhere about resetting the software on the auto box. I tried it on my x3 and it helped. From memory you have the ignition on but engine not running and hold accelerator down for about 25 secs until you hear a click. Search Internet and you will find lots on it http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=639013
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03-02-2016, 04:11 PM	#22
ttimbo Major 282 Rep 1,491 Posts Drives: F48 X1 25i AW; F20 M135i AW Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	Worth checking with a BMW tech, I reckon __________________ BMW F22 M240i; F48 X1 25i, BMW F20 M135i Peugeot T9 308 GTi 270 Renaultsport Megane 3 Trophy-R, Renault Clio Sport 182.
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