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      06-29-2013, 07:35 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
So I've had my M-lite almost three months now, almost 6,000ks, and really enjoy the car. I like that it has multiple personalities with M Adaptive and the Drive modes, and I can pick the one that matches my mood. It's comfortable, has all the space needed for two of us, delivers surprising fuel economy, and howls like a bitch when I'm on my own. It doesn't attract attention, but once people see it and have a ride, they really like it. I really like the spec i have...only the rear camera is unnecessary, and I'm still very happy with the price I paid so don't have any regrets given the recent price cuts

It's a keeper, and I reckon it'll last at least three years in my garage, or perhaps longer, like its S3 predecessor, as I wait for something better to come along.
Well said!
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      06-29-2013, 08:08 PM   #90
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More popcorn please.

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      06-30-2013, 01:08 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
Owning a car has never been a criterium to say something usefull about it. That's why I generally value professional journalists driving all kind of cars all day long more than the average joe that only drives that single specific car.

When I would own a M135i, it will not put my opinion above the one of Steve's. I could only conclude that maybe my preferences lay a bit different.
Nothing wrong with that, provided we all bear in mind that
  • All car reviews are subjective
  • Car reviews test aspects of performance and use that are often irrelevant to the daily needs of most drivers
  • There's relatively few motoring journos who are professional drivers
  • Professional drivers often can't write, write logically, and/or have quite big gaps in their technical knowledge. Also, one should never assume they are unbiased, because they typically have a number of commercial interests that are not disclosed
  • Car tests are often done in quite a short time, ie, the test drivers are exposed to them for quite short periods.
  • Most cars evolve for the better over time, with development.

Motor test journalists regularly contradict themselves, or make comments they've heard others make (eg, Audi - front heavy, numb steering) which I find really annoying.

Yes, they help inform us, as consumers, but they're not handing out tablets of stone, just subjective opinions based on their individual cognitive biases. Just like me!
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      06-30-2013, 02:58 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Bob UK View Post
When all the fossil fuels are used up and all we have are electric vehicles, 0-60 times and top speeds will become pretty much standardised.

Then people will be reduced to willy waving over range and Formula 1 will be silent and boring.
Dont scary me, I think oil will never end on our lifetime, they rumored all the time that it is ending, firstly year 1990 then 2000 ...Technology make possible to pump oil deeper and deeper and all we know biggest oil reserves is located deep. But yes cars will be drived by electric, still I think sports cars will be hybrid for long time and combustion engine not never dead. The feeling what so many people get when driving a car and listening engine noise are so close so many peoples(even government guys) heart that they cannot kill petrol engines, so long that someone buy them.

What comes the review, is bad compare M135 to A45 AMG. BMW must leave room to M2, which must get upgraded steering program, stiffer suspension and diff.
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      06-30-2013, 03:49 AM   #93
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The M235i is getting an exterior facelift. Would that also mean that
they will at the same time make some changes inside the car i.e adjust
the steering?

If so, it will be a much more desirable car than the M135i in its current production (pre facelift).

As everyone else notes, M135i is not a full on M-car but what puzzles me more is the fact that the reviewer didn't even bother to take the M135i XDrive in making so more evenly matched with the A45. Oh well.

I do however believe that the M235i will be a crackin car to drive. Hopefully they make some changes under the skin, does anyone know?
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      06-30-2013, 03:50 AM   #94
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The problem with reviews is that the writer has to go to the extremes to make a point. When the RS3 came out it was the best RennSport in years, fantastic handling, beautiful engine noise and all the rest. Then the M135 comes along and the RS3 is suddenly a boat with an average engine sound and the M135 beats it in most areas, especially on the track with its superb handling. Now the S3 is here its every bit as good as the m135 - so presumably better than the RS3 as well. Now the AMG is here and the M135 is slow, doesn't corner well, too soft..

When the M2 arrives then I suppose we'll hear about how terrible the AMG's turbo lag is and how awful the Haldex system feels.
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      06-30-2013, 04:52 AM   #95
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Has BMW confirmed that there will be an M235i and an M2? Or are you guys just guessing?
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      06-30-2013, 11:54 AM   #96
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M235i is confirmed. M2 not.

Concerning the review - I also agree it is quite a stupid one.
Also dont get why in the first part he has no problem keeping up with the A45 and in the second part he cant...
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      06-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamburgerman View Post
As everyone else notes, M135i is not a full on M-car but what puzzles me more is the fact that the reviewer didn't even bother to take the M135i XDrive in making so more evenly matched with the A45. Oh well.
There have been threads in this forum where the real purists clarified that the RWD reigns over the x-Drive in precision and balance. When that's true, taking the xDrive would not have compensated the negatives of the M135i, more the contrary I guess.
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      06-30-2013, 05:27 PM   #98
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These "purists" have mostly not driven both -they only say the RWD is better because it is the "sportier" combination. And autocar did not test it on a track but on open road, so the xdrive has its advantages.
A45, M135i xdrive and Golf R would have been much more interesting.
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      06-30-2013, 05:33 PM   #99
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Well the Merc doesnt have big ugly head lights so i guess it wins there too.

Its almost like BMW made the 1 series so ugly people have to buy a 3 if they want a good looking car
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      06-30-2013, 08:58 PM   #100
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M2 or M235i is a coupe while A45 is a small hatchback, don't think they should be compared against each other, maybe the CLA45, they are more comparable in size (even though CLA is a four door car).

While M135i x Drive is not a full fledged M car, it's a better comparison in terms of body style and price.
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      06-30-2013, 10:55 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Has BMW confirmed that there will be an M235i and an M2? Or are you guys just guessing?
Im guessing there will be no M2 even tho im hoping to see one

since the M135i/M235i is already achieve that performance 4.6sec (0-60mph (xdrive model), how can an M2 be in the middle of the pack (between M235i and M3/M4)

what the figure for M2 will be like? 0.1,0.2 faster? who will buy with that small difference
hell if it reach almost the same performance as the M3/4, who will buy the M3/4?

I think that is why they keep the M performance petrol models to the low end models like 1/2series. can u imagine if they build M435i (again not just M kit but M tuned engine, suspension, brakes, etc) again 0.2/0.3 slower than the M4. doesnt make any sense to me

just have to wait and see
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      07-01-2013, 12:04 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scheneider
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Has BMW confirmed that there will be an M235i and an M2? Or are you guys just guessing?
Im guessing there will be no M2 even tho im hoping to see one

since the M135i/M235i is already achieve that performance 4.6sec (0-60mph (xdrive model), how can an M2 be in the middle of the pack (between M235i and M3/M4)

what the figure for M2 will be like? 0.1,0.2 faster? who will buy with that small difference
hell if it reach almost the same performance as the M3/4, who will buy the M3/4?

I think that is why they keep the M performance petrol models to the low end models like 1/2series. can u imagine if they build M435i (again not just M kit but M tuned engine, suspension, brakes, etc) again 0.2/0.3 slower than the M4. doesnt make any sense to me

just have to wait and see
Audi does it with their s and rs models. Why can't bm?
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      07-01-2013, 01:24 AM   #103
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It would make sense that the M2 was faster than the bigger M3/M4, at least in the twisty bits. And the M5 should be even slower. But people would still buy them because they need the extra space and luxury.

Last edited by ovekvam; 07-01-2013 at 09:40 AM..
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      07-01-2013, 02:02 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
Nothing wrong with that, provided we all bear in mind that
  • All car reviews are subjective
  • Car reviews test aspects of performance and use that are often irrelevant to the daily needs of most drivers
  • There's relatively few motoring journos who are professional drivers
  • Professional drivers often can't write, write logically, and/or have quite big gaps in their technical knowledge. Also, one should never assume they are unbiased, because they typically have a number of commercial interests that are not disclosed
  • Car tests are often done in quite a short time, ie, the test drivers are exposed to them for quite short periods.
  • Most cars evolve for the better over time, with development.

Motor test journalists regularly contradict themselves, or make comments they've heard others make (eg, Audi - front heavy, numb steering) which I find really annoying.

Yes, they help inform us, as consumers, but they're not handing out tablets of stone, just subjective opinions based on their individual cognitive biases. Just like me!
You're really low-balling Suttcliffe's judgement. He's a fantastic driver and has had the privilege of driving hundreds of cars; most of sporting intentions no less. I'd bank on his opinion more than anyone else's (well, with the old Harris Monkey being on par of course).

Sure, your personal preferences might vary, but nobody has the level of perspective mixed with driving capabilities as these British journos that comprise the Evo/Car/Autocar staff.

-Suttcliffe and Harris try to be as objective as possible. Often times you see them weighing both perspectives on a car.
-They're often given multiple chances to drive the same model of car, and you don't know what the range/timespan they're given said car. It could be a couple of days or a full week.
-They're fully capable of exploiting the cars' cornering capabilities. Half the reason I love watching their video reviews is to listen to how they describe a car's entry/stead-state/exit cornering behaviors. They're great at detailing things like this.

Just a few points I had to make in relation to yours.
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Last edited by Year's_End; 07-01-2013 at 02:08 AM..
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      07-01-2013, 04:46 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornady
Well the Merc doesnt have big ugly head lights so i guess it wins there too.

Its almost like BMW made the 1 series so ugly people have to buy a 3 if they want a good looking car
I thought so at first but once you see it in person they are quite nice and fit the body well. Specially with the daytime running lights.
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      07-01-2013, 05:11 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
You're really low-balling Suttcliffe's judgement.
Actually, if you read what I wrote, you'll see I made absolutely no specific reference to Steve Sutcliffe. Or Chris Harris. Or any specific motoring journalist. My comments were, quite deliberately, general.

My point is that all reviews are subjective, yet some people get into quite a sweat, suggesting they think what has been written is indisputable, scientific fact. And I pointed to some of the reasons why, as a reader, we should be discerning.

I have some reviewers, whose opinions I value much more than those of others. But, at the end of the day, they're all just opinions.
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      07-01-2013, 05:55 AM   #107
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Toss up

Hi all
First time contributor
I have got an a45 on order for early2014 but am leaning back to the bmw as I have had beemers previously (335i coupe and 323i sedan in the late 90's)
I understand people on this forum have a understandable bias to the m135i but want to hear a bit objectively what's good and what's bad-if anything
I see that there has been a pretty significant price drop and option change which is not so good for current owners
I don't know that I need a car that is crazy fast like the a45 as I live in a largish city and most of my time is in city traffic. I won't go to the track
How do the golf clubs go in the back of the Beemer
What is rear seat space like for teenage kids
Options to get or to avoid
Performance exhaust needed??
Any help appreciated
Thanks
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      07-01-2013, 09:26 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
It would make sense that the M2 was faster than the bigger M3/M4, at least in the twisty bits. And the M5 should be even slower. But people would still buy them because then need the extra space and luxury.
Yeap, there is room left on new smaller M-car, F30/F32 is already physically same or even bigger? than e39 M5. So if BMW wants to be whit on compact sports-car markets they need to have more "raw" feeling car. Not bad setup at all, make non-turbo engine on becoming S55-engine(might be also cheaper to made), its just allowed 30-50kg less weight front of the car, whit DFI, co2 have still something about 200g/km. Then I will really get intresting on new era BMW.
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      07-02-2013, 03:36 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by raffoul232 View Post
I thought so at first but once you see it in person they are quite nice and fit the body well. Specially with the daytime running lights.
I have seen it in real life also.

They look like bassets wine gums stuck to the front of the car.

IMO the Merc looks great. So do the Audi's. Only BMW want to inflict ugly on their customers. The old 5 series was the start of it. Then the E90 UGLY edition. and the 1 series never won any contests for looks either.

I like the drive of the BMW but i find myself being put off 4/5 of their cars just by ugly design.
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      07-03-2013, 02:23 AM   #110
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Having driven the A45 I was surprised by it not feeling faster than the M135i (based on this review).

Will post up a comparison later...
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