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      06-27-2013, 07:04 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
What is more interesting to me, is how quick the engine can deliver maximum torque for the RPM you are at when you go from coasting to full throttle. That is what turbo lag is about, not RPM. Even the 116i with its tiny turbo has very noticeable turbo lag, even though the journalists claims it hasn't.

They should have had an E46 M3 CSL as a reference car.
The M135i is not too bad comparitively here although if you are short-shifting up at under 3000rpm there is certainly a moment's hesitation before the full force of torque appears. I haven't really noticed this driving really hard up tight mountain roads and shifting briskly with the engine in the 4000-7000 range however, again, if you back off in neutral at, say, 4500rpm then floor it there isn't that absolutely immediate hair-trigger response you get from something like an E46 M3, or 911C2S - or RS Clio for that matter.
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      06-27-2013, 07:06 PM   #46
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GTI should no longer considered a "hot hatch". Maybe 10-15 years ago, but not today. Maybe a "hot daily driver" but true hot hatch? That segment is too competitive, and the GTI as a brand has fallen way behind.


Also, this comparison may have made more sense with a ///M1 (no such thing?), amgA45 (whatever its called) and a Golf R. What we just saw here is entertainment for the sake of entertainment. No real conclusions can be drawn.


Having said that, Looks like Steve lost some weight and slimmed down quite a bit. Good for him!
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      06-27-2013, 07:07 PM   #47
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And I agree with him on the steering. What a let down. Specially on an M badged car. What are we calling these halfway M cars anyway?
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      06-27-2013, 07:17 PM   #48
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Wait........this Benz is coming to US in hatchback form????

edit:
No its not, Damn you......Merc

I'll just take one of these instead for my daily commute
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/06/epic-lancia/
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      06-27-2013, 07:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
That's unfortunate about the M135i's steering, and lack of proper suspension tuning.
Those are 2 MAJOR systems in a car related to enthusiast driving and the cars capability.
Great engine, but we've known that about the N55 since it came out a few years back.

I'm really looking forward to the new 2 series for the US market.
And I am hoping they fixed the poor suspension tuning of the E82 135i that I had.
But, the review here doesn't bode well for BMW having corrected it, and the steering is now lack luster, where it was just fine and very BMW like in my E82 135i.

The GTI has always been a great little car, and this reviews says that the new GTI is more buttoned down and better suspension and steering than the M135i.
The only issue with the GTI is that it's lower powered.

Interior looks very nice in all 3, but of the 3 the BMW is the most lacking and bland.

I don't like the AMG sedan that's coming to the US, but I do like this hatchback, much more so than the 1 series hatch.
I've always like the GTI's styling.

Some say the AMG shouldn't be compared to the M135i but more to the 1M. I can see that argument.
I'd like to see a new shootout with the BM AMG, BMW M2, and new
VW Golf-R, when it's available.

The most surprising car here is the GTI as it's way down on power yet still manages to keep up in terms of handling, ride, and appearance.
For a lot less

Let's hope the 2 series gets the tuning right, as it will get an electronic steering assist, and it's not so great in my 335i Msport.
Agree 100%. The next Golf R may well be the performance bargain to look for.
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      06-27-2013, 08:34 PM   #50
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I took a long look at the CLA45AMG when it was introduced at the NY Auto Show and its an attractive ride, especially that hand-built engine!
What I don't like is the limited rear seat headroom; and some of the switchgear is kinda funky, but I guess they had to cut corners someplace. The main drawback IMO in the horizontally opposed engine hanging over the front axle and mandatory AWD.
I think the CLA45AMG is priced around a highly optioned 335i XDrive, and I think I'd go for the Bimmer.
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      06-28-2013, 12:42 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuz5150 View Post
Wait........this Benz is coming to US in hatchback form????

edit:
No its not, Damn you......Merc

I'll just take one of these instead for my daily commute
http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/06/epic-lancia/
Remember to bring your toolbox! :-)
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      06-28-2013, 02:00 AM   #52
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the Mercedes aesthetic philosophy is just loosing me... I don't feel attracted to the sheet-metal at all, or the interior.

I know its not about looks but...
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      06-28-2013, 05:34 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho
Why did they use the GTI instead of a Golf R?
Gen 7 R is not released yet
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      06-28-2013, 05:35 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvega702
I wonder who at BMW said...
"Hey everyone, we get such great reviews and so much praise for our steering... Let change it"

When you try to appeal to everyone, you end up appealing to no one.
BMW is on it's way if its not careful. I try and keep my faith but I don't know...
You can even see the lack of body control as mentioned when compared to the others in the short clips of them jumping the cars. The BMW moves around noticeably and the other two land solid.
Fuel economy plays a role, but BMW needs to fix eps and do it fast! M2 will fix m135 suspension softness.
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      06-28-2013, 05:41 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM3S
Quote:
Originally Posted by ynotony View Post
M is a letter.
LMAO.

On a separate note.....

The fanboys and their excuses are funny. Maybe BMW should stop throwing ///M's on non-///M cars so the brand and image can stop being tarnished and watered down and destroyed by AMG.

Mercedes takes their AMG brand and offers an even more stunning and exclusive option with the "Black series".

BMW takes their ///M brand and waters it down and cheapens it so every BMW made has an ///M steering wheel and shift knob that they can charge fanboys thousands for their "M-sport" edition. Sad really.
Well said! M labeled cars should never have RFT, poorly calibrated eps and soft suspension! Especially since BMW charges high premiums for those.
Rumors are that 2 series has been retuned - lets hope for the best
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      06-28-2013, 05:55 AM   #56
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Back in the old days, M-cars were only sold to collectors and hard core driving enthusiasts. Now the buying groups is a lot larger, and I guess BMW have done their research about what these customers want. Most of them will never take their car to a track, and they actually prefer slightly soft suspension. The hard core guys will replace the suspension with aftermarket coilover kits anyway.

I am very pleased with both the suspension and the steering on our 116i M-Sport, and I am the type of person who use the car on race tracks. A lot of people have been surprised about how well this car works. That would not have been the case if the suspension or steering was flawed.
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      06-28-2013, 08:00 AM   #57
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I call BS. The Evo car, a magazine of people who know how to drive, rate the new AMG as a boring car while giving the M135 a whole lot of praise

Stop reading Autocar... absolute garbage
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      06-28-2013, 08:18 AM   #58
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This test is crap.

WTF is he doing "let's see if i can keep up with the AMG on this..." PUBLIC MOUNTAIN ROAD.

They are openly speeding are they not?
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      06-28-2013, 09:57 AM   #59
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Autocar.co.uk should do their tests at a race track or closed circuit/road.
You can clearly see they are speeding and crossing white lines with oncoming traffic.
I really don't like people who test a car on a public road.

Well the AMG is a fantastic machine that set a new benchmark.
Let's wait and see what VW and BMW have up their sleeves...
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      06-28-2013, 10:06 AM   #60
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I asked BMW a couple of years back what their strategy was about this horsepower race with Audi and Mercedes. The answer was that they didn't really care so much about engine power and straight line performance, but the BMW should be faster around a track. Seems like they are struggling to reach the target. The opposition has also started to focus on lap times.

I wish they would care less about performance, and more about making the car fun to drive. Aim for the Toyota GT86.
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      06-28-2013, 10:06 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callthecops View Post
Autocar.co.uk should do their tests at a race track or closed circuit/road.
You can clearly see they are speeding and crossing white lines with oncoming traffic.
And a cyclist at one point.
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      06-28-2013, 11:15 AM   #62
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These cars are not relevant in my opinion. They are priced differently and offer different levels of performance in different ways. That said, I think the video therefore highlights the incredible performance of the BMW and value for money compared to the others. The review should have rather focused on how different 'hot hatches' and not about seeing whether a W GTI can keep up with an A45 AMG! Pffft... The GTI is a such a great car nonetheless and ,wow, it weighs only 1380kg!

Anyway, it does not mean that even though the M135i looks like a direct competitor to the A45 (both being in hatchback form), that it necessarily is. But the general public will immediately look to the M135i when considering the A45's competitors (which is so annoying) and recognize that the A45 trumps the M135i in performance (which is the major selling point to most buyers). The extreme price difference will probably be viewed as, 'Mercedes Benz is always more expensive than BMW, so that price is acceptable'. But the price difference is really the fact that the MB is an AMG car and the BMW is not an M car(well, it's half an M)!

The fact that M135i holds its own in performance relatively well and is priced much further below the A45 shows that it's still one of the best out there, but still sits below the the proper M version. Bring on the M2!!!
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      06-28-2013, 12:53 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffoul232 View Post
Common bring on the mk7r vs rs3 vs a45 vs m2 now that would be a hell of a test.
that would be a nice comparo. Chris Harris did a review and the m135i already beat out the RS3 (at least in his review). The m135i actually "walked" the RS3 in a long drag race and beat it out on the circuit.

I'm guessing the MBZ/Audi has more understeer on turn in due to awd?

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      06-28-2013, 01:24 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
I'm guessing the MBZ/Audi has more understeer on turn in due to awd?
I've never driven the A45 AMG, so I can't say from first-hand experience, but it is not strictly a necessity that AWD produce understeer. It is often the case that AWD cars do understeer more, but this is only because of the way they're set up, or because of the specific type of AWD system used, not specifically because the car is AWD.
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      06-28-2013, 01:36 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I've never driven the A45 AMG, so I can't say from first-hand experience, but it is not strictly a necessity that AWD produce understeer. It is often the case that AWD cars do understeer more, but this is only because of the way they're set up, or because of the specific type of AWD system used, not specifically because the car is AWD.
If you take a rear wheel drive car, and add drive shafts and a differential up front, it will in general become more front heavy. That will add understeer. The opposite is generally true if you start with a FWD car, and extend the driveline to the rear wheels.

Since cars with FWD and AWD are more stable than RWD cars, they can generally be set up with less understeer, and still be driveable.

When you are cornering under power with otherwise equal cars, a FWD car will understeer the most, and RWD the least, with AWD somewhere in between.

During turn in, you are usually braking, or close to neutral throttle. In this situation, the basic balance of the car is what counts, not where the drive shafts are located.
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      06-28-2013, 01:56 PM   #66
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I think its also a testament that a 135i is pretty close to the amg 45.

Wonder how the m2 will fair (although wont be a hatch).
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