BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > First sighting of twin-turbo F20 1-series
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      09-11-2009, 04:18 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by adrean8j View Post
Read the article below..the information is from a German sourced automotive journal. They DO mention turbo-charging...I don't know if it is twin or otherwise.....I still highly doubt the vehicle shown above is a 135i hatch....time will tell

"Even though this is something we anticipated and talked about for quite some time now, this morning the breaking news in the BMW world were that the German automaker will start using 3-cylinder engines in the next generation BMW 1 Series and the high-volume seller, 3 Series. According to sources close to BMW, the 3-cylinder engines will power some of the entry level vehicles and smaller mild hybrid platforms. The upcoming BMW Z2 and the new generation 1 Series are the prime candidates for this new direction. Quoting the same source, these engines are currently in a testing phase and are still about two years away from the launch date.

The German publication Auto Motor und Sport published today a list of these new engines. Even though we have not yet confirmed them with a second source, we will go ahead and publish them, but keep in mind that things might change along the line.
x16i 1,35 liters I3, 122hk/190Nm
x18i 1,35 liters I3, 150hk/220Nm
x20i 1,35 liters I3, 180hk/260Nm
x23i 1,80 liters I4, 204hk/300Nm
x25i 1,80 liters I4, 240hk/350Nm
Of course many of you wonder why would BMW go into this direction, but we have said many times in the past few months: the stricter emission regulation and the need for cleaner technologies, have pushed BMW into a new direction, where efficiency is the key element.
Those engines will also be configured to work with existing and future hybrid technologies which can boost the power. Even though the smaller displacement usually implies less power, BMW is still focused on offering the same sporty performance that made the company famous.
The engines with less cylinders and displacement will make up the performance by being turbocharged.
For those of you that still believe in more power and big engines, BMW will continue to offer their award winning engines, starting with the twin-turbo 6-cylinder and the current V8 turbo engines.
[Source: GCZ and AMS ]"
Nowhere in this excerpt from the article does it mention a twin-turbo four cylinder motor. The 1addicts home page does mention a six cylinder twin turbo though - probably a N54 variant.

That was all I was questioning.
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      09-11-2009, 11:23 PM   #46
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It looks like the front overhang has increased and the rear overhang reduced. I wonder if the wheel base is the same or not ...
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      09-12-2009, 07:46 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post


The Mazda 3 is HALF Ford, and it is not that great of a car in the first place.
Half Ford Focus Euro one. A class leading car.
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      09-12-2009, 07:54 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by yinujim View Post
Half Ford Focus Euro one. A class leading car.
Half Volvo S40... Owned by Ford!

The Class Leading Ford's never were Built in the US, and is the very reason they lost their market in the first place.
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      09-12-2009, 08:12 AM   #49
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The N55 has 1 Variable Turbo, being dubbed the Twin-Power, because of it's Duel Function.

The N54 [Twin-Turbo] will be replaced by the N55 [SINGLE Twin-Power TURBO] because of the fuel saving it is capable of.

The new series of High-Revving Turbo 4 Bangers, most likely will see the same Twin-Power Single Turbo application.

The 2011 X3 being built on the up and coming 2012 3er Platform, may indeed see the first application of the new N55 Motor.
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      09-12-2009, 10:22 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
The N55 has 1 Variable Turbo, being dubbed the Twin-Power, because of it's Duel Function.

The N54 [Twin-Turbo] will be replaced by the N55 [SINGLE Twin-Power TURBO] because of the fuel saving it is capable of.

The new series of High-Revving Turbo 4 Bangers, most likely will see the same Twin-Power Single Turbo application.

The 2011 X3 being built on the up and coming 2012 3er Platform, may indeed see the first application of the new N55 Motor.
So it is a variable-vaned turbo then. This is sort of like Ford calling their new turbo diesel motor a twin turbo when it really was a sequential turbo.

Semantics? You decide.
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      09-12-2009, 11:18 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
The N55 has 1 Variable Turbo, being dubbed the Twin-Power, because of it's Duel Function.

The N54 [Twin-Turbo] will be replaced by the N55 [SINGLE Twin-Power TURBO] because of the fuel saving it is capable of.

The new series of High-Revving Turbo 4 Bangers, most likely will see the same Twin-Power Single Turbo application.

The 2011 X3 being built on the up and coming 2012 3er Platform, may indeed see the first application of the new N55 Motor.
Wrote an article on the N55 for the local chapter BMW CCA mag. it incorporates Valvetronic (they managed to squeeze it into the cylinder head with double Vanos, spark plugs and direct injectors - phewwww!).

The Twin-Power turbo is basically the same turbo that's used on the V8 - it's a twin scroll (two chamber) on the exhaust side. So rather than an exhaust pulse arriving every 240 degrees of crank rotation (as on the individual turbos of the N54) an exhaust pulse arrives every 120 degrees of crank rotation. That allows peak /RPM/ should read torque/ to occur at 1200 RPM, so it is less 'lagy' then the N54.

The Valvetronic allows the engine to go 'throttleless' after startup, that's where the fuel savings comes in.

Last edited by atr_hugo; 09-12-2009 at 09:36 PM.. Reason: Clean up spelling in aisle three. ; -)
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      09-12-2009, 01:41 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
The N55 has 1 Variable Turbo, being dubbed the Twin-Power, because of it's Duel Function.

The N54 [Twin-Turbo] will be replaced by the N55 [SINGLE Twin-Power TURBO] because of the fuel saving it is capable of.

The new series of High-Revving Turbo 4 Bangers, most likely will see the same Twin-Power Single Turbo application.

The 2011 X3 being built on the up and coming 2012 3er Platform, may indeed see the first application of the new N55 Motor.
The N55 will be in the 5er GT, The X5 and the X3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan77 View Post
So it is a variable-vaned turbo then. This is sort of like Ford calling their new turbo diesel motor a twin turbo when it really was a sequential turbo.

Semantics? You decide.
It is not a variable vane. It is two chambered.
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      09-12-2009, 02:16 PM   #53
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with diesel please..
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      09-12-2009, 07:23 PM   #54
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Looks like a constipated old Civic hatch imo
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      09-12-2009, 09:04 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
The N55 will be in the 5er GT, The X5 and the X3.


It is not a variable vane. It is two chambered.
That is some strange labeling. Wouldn't it just be easier to actually say it was a twin scroll turbo?

Of course they can always sell more cars making people think it is a twin-turbo by saying it is a "Twin-Power" turbo motor.
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      09-13-2009, 03:23 AM   #56
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Exclamation

Nice car...Who think that the new BMW 1-series will beat the VW GOLF? personally i don"t think so
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      09-13-2009, 08:28 AM   #57
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Get this... I was told this yesterday by a close friend of mine, returning from a trip to the BMW plant in Munich, that a new high revving 4 cylinder in development may have 3 Turbos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Wrote an article on the N55 for the local chapter BMW CCA mag. it incorporates Valvetronic (they managed to squeeze it into the cylinder head with double Vanos, spark plugs and direct injectors - phewwww!).

The Twin-Power turbo is basically the same turbo that's used on the V8 - it's a twin scroll (two chamber) on the exhaust side. So rather than an exhaust pulse arriving every 240 degrees of crank rotation (as on the individual turbos of the N54) an exhaust pulse arrives every 120 degrees of crank rotation. That allows peak /RPM/ should read torque/ to occur at 1200 RPM, so it is less 'lagy' then the N54.

The Valvetronic allows the engine to go 'throttleless' after startup, that's where the fuel savings comes in.
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      09-14-2009, 10:15 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMan77 View Post
That is some strange labeling. Wouldn't it just be easier to actually say it was a twin scroll turbo?

Of course they can always sell more cars making people think it is a twin-turbo by saying it is a "Twin-Power" turbo motor.
Twin Power will NOT be used in North America, it will be twin scroll.

Same goes for this whole "Joy" campaign (which I think is lame) is not from BMWNA- and will not be.
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      09-14-2009, 10:21 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
Get this... I was told this yesterday by a close friend of mine, returning from a trip to the BMW plant in Munich, that a new high revving 4 cylinder in development may have 3 Turbos.
They have been "playing" with a tri-turbo diesel and petrol, and no offense to your friend they will not tell you this on a factory tour.... the people giving the tour have less knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes than most people on this forum.

If your friend had a behind the scenes tour, that is a different story.

BMW is trying to get the most power and efficiency out of the least fuel, so anything is fair game.

A tri-turbo makes sense as one can supply the engine with air at higher RPMS- in gas to keep it going and diesel to raise the red line.

The big down fall is expense and weight.

BMW eliminated a turbo on the N54 to create the N55 to save money without losing performance, so the idea of the 3 turbos has always left me a bit puzzled in the grand scheme.

A turbo and super charger (with a electromechanical clutch) makes more sense to me from a cost and design concept.

-M
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      09-14-2009, 11:12 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yinujim View Post
Half Ford Focus Euro one. A class leading car.
Nothing personal... What you don't seem to get is it is in a class by itself, in a world far apart from the real world. Quasi...at best!
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      09-14-2009, 11:13 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
They have been "playing" with a tri-turbo diesel and petrol, and no offense to your friend they will not tell you this on a factory tour.... the people giving the tour have less knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes than most people on this forum.

If your friend had a behind the scenes tour, that is a different story.

BMW is trying to get the most power and efficiency out of the least fuel, so anything is fair game.

A tri-turbo makes sense as one can supply the engine with air at higher RPMS- in gas to keep it going and diesel to raise the red line.

The big down fall is expense and weight.

BMW eliminated a turbo on the N54 to create the N55 to save money without losing performance, so the idea of the 3 turbos has always left me a bit puzzled in the grand scheme.

A turbo and super charger (with a electromechanical clutch) makes more sense to me from a cost and design concept.

-M
He is a GM for a East Coast BMW Store, and has been for many years, and knows little about the tech side of life, and was very clear about what was revealed. I'm doing some consulting with his store, and will be driving the new X6M this week, and will do my best to find out more for all of us. So just hang on, and I will follow-up accordingly.
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      09-15-2009, 07:03 AM   #62
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Red - would love to hear how those turbos are 'stacked' in the 4 cylinder. Thanks for the info!
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      09-15-2009, 01:49 PM   #63
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^^ Ye, its false information. Only application of tri-turbo that I heard of is on a new super diesel V6... Turbo per 2 cylinders, as it would make sense..
3 turbos on a 4 banger - doesnt make sense..
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      09-15-2009, 10:31 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Red - would love to hear how those turbos are 'stacked' in the 4 cylinder. Thanks for the info!
I'm guessing 2 turbos attached to two manifolds... One manifold on 2 of each of the 4 cylinders, then joining one larger turbo after that point.

I'm intrigued by the concept as a whole, and will definitely post more after my lunch meeting later this week.

I love high revving fours, and think they can show Honda a thing or two, in the process.
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      09-16-2009, 12:29 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post

I love high revving fours, and think they can show Honda a thing or two, in the process.
Easy now killer, BMW is good, but there is NOTHING negative to be said about Honda engines. AND never forget that Honda has resisted the trend of turbo charging thier four bangers even in the midst of the GTi, MS3, Srt4, Cobalt, etc, while still being competitive to that segment.
If anything, Honda could show BMW a thing or two.
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      09-16-2009, 05:52 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by HondaGoneRogue View Post
Easy now killer, BMW is good, but there is NOTHING negative to be said about Honda engines. AND never forget that Honda has resisted the trend of turbo charging thier four bangers even in the midst of the GTi, MS3, Srt4, Cobalt, etc, while still being competitive to that segment.
If anything, Honda could show BMW a thing or two.
A little biased are we?

Didn't you tubo-charge both of your Hondas prior to the 1er?
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