BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > Clarkson Spins M135i in Top Gear Review (Video)
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      03-15-2014, 07:33 PM   #111
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It was humorously done, just sad that it became a series of one liners at the expense of such a great car, a car that Clarkson himself had nothing but praise for (going all the way back to his 2012 column in the Sunday Times) until he spun it...
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      03-16-2014, 03:20 AM   #112
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DTC

I doubt any human could have caught that.....too fast. But Dynamic Stability Control may well have. Its designed to keep the car going straight and reacts in milliseconds when it detects a spin, applying individual brakes. Typically it's already reacted and corrected the problem before the driver has consciously registered a problem. Its exactly why I'm not in favour of switching it off.....people claim good drivers don't need it but as Top Gear showed, human reaction times are way to slow to catch a sudden loss of traction/grip on one wheel
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      03-16-2014, 03:34 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
I doubt any human could have caught that.....too fast. But traction control may well have. Its designed to keep the car going straight and reacts in milliseconds when it detects a spin, applying individual brakes. Typically it's already reacted and corrected the problem before the driver has consciously registered a problem. Its exactly why I'm not in favour of switching it off.....people claim good drivers don't need it but as Top Gear showed, human reaction times are way to slow to catch a sudden loss of traction/grip on one wheel
But braking with individual wheels has no effect when you are aquaplaning, since there is no grip. It will however prevent excessive wheelspin that can cause trouble when grip is regained.

Humans are slow when they need to think, but reflexes can be very fast. You would be surprised by the slides the best drivers can catch. On some skid pans there are random skid generators that will throw the rear end of the car out in a sudden slide in one direction or the other. Normal people have no chance if the operators set the force to maximum, but I watched HH Frentzen (F1-driver) drive through those things without getting any slides at all. Just a quick correction, and the car kept straight.

Even quite unexperienced drivers will usually drive faster around a track with DSC Off, but I agree that it is a good idea to have it enabled during transport driving.
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      03-17-2014, 01:54 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
I doubt any human could have caught that.....too fast. But Dynamic Stability Control may well have. Its designed to keep the car going straight and reacts in milliseconds when it detects a spin, applying individual brakes. Typically it's already reacted and corrected the problem before the driver has consciously registered a problem. Its exactly why I'm not in favour of switching it off.....people claim good drivers don't need it but as Top Gear showed, human reaction times are way to slow to catch a sudden loss of traction/grip on one wheel
I agree to that. Keeping them on will save you
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      03-18-2014, 02:53 AM   #115
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Psychologically

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
But braking with individual wheels has no effect when you are aquaplaning, since there is no grip. It will however prevent excessive wheelspin that can cause trouble when grip is regained.

Humans are slow when they need to think, but reflexes can be very fast. You would be surprised by the slides the best drivers can catch. On some skid pans there are random skid generators that will throw the rear end of the car out in a sudden slide in one direction or the other. Normal people have no chance if the operators set the force to maximum, but I watched HH Frentzen (F1-driver) drive through those things without getting any slides at all. Just a quick correction, and the car kept straight.

Even quite unexperienced drivers will usually drive faster around a track with DSC Off, but I agree that it is a good idea to have it enabled during transport driving.
With respect, there's a huge difference between the heightened awareness and preparedness of a skid pan or race track vs. the typical relaxed or even distracted state when average Joe is driving a normal road. Also HH Frentzen prevents skids for a living so isn't going to freeze or produce large quantities of adrenalin when his car kicks sideways. Comparing HHF on a skid pan with ordinary drivers is like comparing me vs. a trained gymnast on a 4" beam

The point is, the constantly monitoring, fast acting electronics give the average driver HH-like reflexes.

In aquaplaning, what snaps a car sideways are unequal forces applied to the same axle. DSC applies counteracting forces to keep the car straight
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      03-18-2014, 03:54 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
With respect, there's a huge difference between the heightened awareness and preparedness of a skid pan or race track vs. the typical relaxed or even distracted state when average Joe is driving a normal road. Also HH Frentzen prevents skids for a living so isn't going to freeze or produce large quantities of adrenalin when his car kicks sideways. Comparing HHF on a skid pan with ordinary drivers is like comparing me vs. a trained gymnast on a 4" beam

The point is, the constantly monitoring, fast acting electronics give the average driver HH-like reflexes.
I agree. My point was that the best drivers are unbelievably good at what they are doing compared to normal drivers. I have also done some work as a skid pan instructor, but I am very far from the level of people like Frentzen.

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Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
In aquaplaning, what snaps a car sideways are unequal forces applied to the same axle. DSC applies counteracting forces to keep the car straight
In an aquaplaning situation, it is rather common to lose all grip on all wheels for a moment. According to the laws of Newton, the car will then continue with the velocity it had, and it will also continue to rotate if it was doing that before losing grip. A slight rotation can also occur if one side starts floating a little bit before the other.

The DSC will notice, and go into panic mode, trying to brake individual wheels. When aquaplaning, this doesn't work, so it will try even harder. When the grip comes back, the DSC has probably locked up some wheels completely, which can get the situation further out of hand. It is my opinion that DSC is not helping in an aquaplaning situation.

After this point, it could be too late to save the situation, but now the DSC will work with you, and stop doing harmful things. You still have to do the steering work right as a driver, as the DSC can not help you with that.

Clarkson was probably driving with all systems off, and the throttle wide open. The aquaplaning caused the rear wheels to spin up significantly, and spinning tyres have no directional stability. So the car quickly swapped ends when the front wheels got their grip back.

In his case, any traction control system should have prevented this from happening. Sport+ and DTC allows wheelspin, and would probably not have saved him.
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      04-20-2014, 12:30 PM   #117
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Just joined so please go easy on me...

I thought I would add some context. In bad weather conditions I would much rather drive a M135i than a 911/458 etc (and I have driven both). I'd be safer and much more comfortable.

Cheers

Paul
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      04-21-2014, 07:05 AM   #118
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All,
I agree fully to the above. However we all know Mr. Clarkson is a Petrolhead. Looking at the Video you clearly can see that he had the Car in Sport+ mode on Aquaplaning going more than 120mph. To be honest no excuse for that. As usual he wanted the faster car and disabled all safety features on a wet road and then complaining about the BMW. I assume if he would done that with the VW he would gone off the rails much earlier. LOL
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      04-21-2014, 01:56 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olko View Post
Looking at the Video you clearly can see that he had the Car in Sport+ mode on Aquaplaning going more than 120mph.
This isn't clear at all. You mustn't think that just because clips are shown in a certain order means that they were recorded in the same order. The part where we're shown the dash could have been filmed the day before or after for all we know. It is even possible that the spin didn't even occur during the drag-race, but just cleverly edited in to make it look this way, as mentioned by someone else in this thread.
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