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      05-16-2022, 10:59 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by PittsDriver View Post
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Originally Posted by Mavus View Post
for that size and high cg I guess but far from awesome … sorry need to understand physics

don't tell me you'd rather go to track with x3 than m3



Those guys looked like they were having fun. I understand physics but I also have some idea of how much fun 600 hp would be. The only thing that would make it more fun would be if you could switch it to rear wheel drive only.
hp on paper sells car but has little meaning in performance driving … pure entertainment and nothing else
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      05-16-2022, 11:00 AM   #46
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for that size and high cg I guess but far from awesome … sorry need to understand physics

don't tell me you'd rather go to track with x3 than m3
Indeed, according to this forum, there are only two things you can/should do with your M BMW. 1) track it or 2) buy groceries. M3’s get tracked (all of them), X3/5M’s get parked in front of a Costco.
you missed the point completely
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      05-16-2022, 11:05 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Mavus View Post
for that size and high cg I guess but far from awesome … sorry need to understand physics

don't tell me you'd rather go to track with x3 than m3
It's not a race car. Neither is an M5 or even M3. Doesn't mean they don't have a place. Seems to be quite a step on the from the X5/6 M's which were already stupid fast and nicely trimmed. This is just fun for the sake of fun, "physics" be damned
yes agree however BMW should have created a separate label for uber luxury overpriced glitz instead of contaminating their M division, maybe something similar to Maybach or even Alpina that they bought. This way they would have true dual purpose M models AND uber luxury models.

Let's say you are in a showroom and checking out csl and next to it is this 7k lb tank with M label.
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      05-16-2022, 11:21 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by HanSooloo View Post
When we have an X5 M, is the only incremental value the integration of a hybrid drive train?
I'd say you also get the combination of speed, luxury & comfort. While the X5 M certainly delivers speed, I'm not sure about the luxury & comfort aspect.
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      05-16-2022, 11:40 AM   #49
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As I am reading the XM prototype reviews, I am wondering about the size of the target market and forecasted annual sales.

After the initial interest from "must have this car just because ..." wanes, will it even be a profitable vehicle?
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      05-16-2022, 11:46 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
As I am reading the XM prototype reviews, I am wondering about the size of the target market and forecasted annual sales.

After the initial interest from "must have this car just because ..." wanes, will it even be a profitable vehicle?
That's a good point.

Since it is 'new', no wonder there are 'lines' now. But a few years down the road, this might be completely different.

I also don't think they can go too crazy on the pricing. I don't see this selling north of $150K....
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      05-16-2022, 11:48 AM   #51
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I understand why BMW wants to make a car like this -- but I just wish that they called it an X8 or X9 instead of trying to sell it as a standalone "M" product and/or the flagship car of the M lineup.

Audi Sport has the R8 as their flagship, Mercedes AMG has the AMG GT as their flagship, and BMW has a big SUV as the flagship bespoke car of the M division? That doesn't sit well with me.
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      05-16-2022, 11:50 AM   #52
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Luxury over driving dynamics. Terrible.
you drive an M2 CS m8. this car is clearly not for you (nor is it for me). and that's completely ok. if they can sell them, they're assuredly going to build them.
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      05-16-2022, 11:54 AM   #53
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so many 2er and 3er drivers on here slating this car. those responses are wholly predictable, and honestly who cares? BMW knows you're not buying this car. would I ever want an XM? no sir. I also don't think someone should be able to have an opinion on abortion if you don't have a uterus.
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      05-16-2022, 11:59 AM   #54
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I like Cheerios. You like Fruit Loops. Do you have to pee in my Cheerios to enjoy your breakfast cereal choice? So I think we should all love it that there's a choice out there for a variety of tastes and interests.
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      05-16-2022, 12:14 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 760Lifan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSooloo View Post
When we have an X5 M, is the only incremental value the integration of a hybrid drive train?
I'd say you also get the combination of speed, luxury & comfort. While the X5 M certainly delivers speed, I'm not sure about the luxury & comfort aspect.
This is a good point. I would NOT say my f95 is capable of luxury as I think most would define. Ride is hard. Road noise penetrates cabin. Seats are firm. Back seats don't tilt back at all. Etc.

The 'lounge' concept I'm hearing about seems to be a different design philosophy.

I think it will do well with those looking for g wagons or maybe Bentley. Not sure it's head to head with Urus or Cayenne. IMO That's more for the X5/6M to contend with based on size.
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      05-16-2022, 12:15 PM   #56
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It seems to be more like a Bentayga rival 🤔
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      05-16-2022, 01:05 PM   #57
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The first Hybrid "M" BMW,...definitely not the last! I'm expecting the M5 hybrid,...M3 Hybrid,...X3M/X4M Hybrids, etc. I think it was wise for BMW to designed/release hybrid models prior to going full 'electric'!
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      05-16-2022, 01:22 PM   #58
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Going to get on the wait list for this ride. Can't wait.
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      05-16-2022, 01:29 PM   #59
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Interesting that there won't be an air suspension. Makes sense from an M-aspect but surprising considering the size of the vehicle.
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      05-16-2022, 04:17 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
I don't see it as wrong, it's an SUV afterall..
When they do make an SUV ride like an M-car then people complain that it's too firm such as the X3M. Can't please everyone but as long as you please the target audience that's all that matters.
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      05-16-2022, 04:19 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by CommanderChange View Post
It makes me sad to see the direction of this company.
It makes me sad to see the direction of some posters. It's not that BMW's direction changed and more that time has passed and the incessant whiners simply got left behind.
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      05-16-2022, 04:33 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
FYI, for those whining about "physics", here is an example of an SUV (see Porsche Cayenne) setting a better lap time than the new (G80) M3, which is obviously a serious performer. So the idea that because of "physics" an SUV can't be a worthy performance vehicle is absolute nonsense:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2022/
Bad example, arbitrary comparison. It didn’t beat the M5 CS, or the Panamera Turbo S, or the CT5 Blackwing.

And it is absolutely nonsense, because a similar powertrain in a lower, lighter car will always do better, guaranteed.

These are one lap wonders anyway.
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      05-16-2022, 04:42 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Point is that the idea that SUVs can't perform like performance sedans is nonsense, figured you'd be able to figure that out. You do realize the XM will be > $180k correct? Therefore it will likely stand a good chance of having M3-level performance. And in this price range, customers are not exactly price sensitive, so the cost relative to performance is irrelevant, what really matters is absolute performance capability.

By the way, a lower-lighter vehicle lacks UTILITY, which is something you "purists" seem to forget. Unless you are competing professionally with your M car (which no one is), utility will always have a value. Why the hell would I car about getting a car with FAR less utility for a second or two on the track when I am not using the vehicle to compete? Makes literally zero sense.
My 4 door sedan has all the utility I need, and I don’t sacrifice anything to have it. I take it to various race tracks because it is absolutely nuts and incredible fun, some of the most you can have with your pants on. I don’t race, I don’t win any trophies, but I am getting tremendous adrenalin hits by driving it, and I’m developing into a much better driver than I ever was. It is the very exemplification of having the cake and eating it too.

On the other hand you talk about the utility of your X5, that’s great. But what does it do to give you a $hit-eating grin a mile wide? I’m curious.
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      05-16-2022, 04:47 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Point is that the idea that SUVs can't perform like performance sedans is nonsense, figured you'd be able to figure that out. You do realize the XM will be > $180k correct? Therefore it will likely stand a good chance of having M3-level performance. And in this price range, customers are not exactly price sensitive, so the cost relative to performance is irrelevant, what really matters is absolute performance capability.

By the way, a lower-lighter vehicle lacks UTILITY, which is something you "purists" seem to forget. Unless you are competing professionally with your M car (which no one is), utility will always have a value. Why the hell would I car about getting a car with FAR less utility for a second or two on the track when I am not using the vehicle to compete? Makes literally zero sense.
My 4 door sedan has all the utility I need, and I don’t sacrifice anything to have it. I take it to various race tracks because it is absolutely nuts and incredible fun, some of the most you can have with your pants on. I don’t race, I don’t win any trophies, but I am getting tremendous adrenalin hits by driving it, and I’m developing into a much better driver than I ever was. It is the very exemplification of having the cake and eating it too.

On the other hand you talk about the utility of your X5, that’s great. But what does it do to give you a $hit-eating grin a mile wide? I’m curious.
Admittedly I think it does somewhat depend on the context. I understand the desire to have a sedan with the best possible advantages if one doesn't value the utility of an SUV, but sorry, your sedan doesn't provide anywhere the utility of an X5, XM etc. In terms of performance in the context of versatility, sedans are obsolete. Which is why almost no one drives sedans anymore except the most enthusiastic drivers. And that's absolutely fine, but doesn't change the fact that performance SUVs are legit.
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      05-16-2022, 04:52 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyriian View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
FYI, for those whining about "physics", here is an example of an SUV (see Porsche Cayenne) setting a better lap time than the new (G80) M3, which is obviously a serious performer. So the idea that because of "physics" an SUV can't be a worthy performance vehicle is absolute nonsense:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2022/
an 180k SUV wearing R-compounds beating a car worth 100k less on street tires, got it

The M5CS, priced 60k less as specified wearing the same Pirelli Pzero Corsa also beat this 180k SUV (specced over 200k according to your article), so your point is... what

An SUV can be worthy performance vehicle, with a significant money, more power, and better tires, to defy those very same physics they are trying to defy, now imagine the same car in a lower, lighter body, perhaps it would have been even faster. Panamera Turbo S vs. Cayenne GT Turbo, or even the X5CS vs. M5CS, the latter case, tires likely would be worth a second or two, but not 10 seconds difference
Also, the Cayenne has rear wheel steering which no M car has ever had until the XM. That's a big advantage on the track.
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      05-16-2022, 06:01 PM   #66
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Not sure why some people think it has to be one or the other. Driving performance is all relative. The M3/M4/M5 aren't sports car, but they do enough to give you that feeling/experience of one if you're into sedans/coupes. The same applies to the X3M/X4M/X5M/X6M and soon XM. They're not sports cars either but they do and given enough as an SUV can. The X5/X6 and the M variants have largely delivered on that.

If I'm into SUV's, why can't I or why shouldn't I be able to get a M variant if I'm looking for fun?
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