[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Almost very argument you make in favor of the automatic is based on traffic, convenience, accommodating commuters, etc.

Can't you just admit that an automatic works for you because of your lifestyle? Are you so self-centered that you think everyone lives in your rat-race world? You know there is a wide world of beautiful countryside beyond your myopic range where people enjoy driving and the beautiful roads where the involvement of a manual transmission enhances the drive? We're not all stuck in commuter traffic on controlled-access highways.

The question was "does anyone miss driving a manual transmission?". Not "are any you stuck in traffic missing your manual transmission?"

Traffic was just one factor. I literally listed several more.

The only argument you guys can come back to is/was, "I WANT TO drive a manual", and, "you can only have fun in a manual".

I can't say you're wrong for wanting a manual but anyone who says only more fun in a manual IS wrong. If manual is more fun to you, then it is more fun to you. But preaching as if the ONLY fun you can have in a car is when the car is manual is ass fucking backwards. And i shot down that theory pages ago in this thread.

Literally every single thing i said about auto being superior has killed your arugment.

If you want to end this discussion and just say manual makes you feel good and TO YOU is more fun, i guess we'll leave it as that.

Every facet in any type of real world driving, and even performance driving, auto is superior. Point blank period.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Cruise control of that era will drive you right into the car in front of you; its not a driver's aid to avoid accidents. The driver still has to pay attention to the road. Lol. Try again..

I drive and ride over a dozen manual-transmission BMWs—and I never use cruise control. What am I missing here?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Cruise control of that era will drive you right into the car in front of you; its not a driver's aid to avoid accidents. The driver still has to pay attention to the road. Lol. Try again..

It's a driver's aid, that's what you said. But we could use ABS then, if you are talking about driver's aids to avoid accidents? Then maybe SC and TC...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'll write this slowly...

That doesn't make any difference.

I suppose it depends on where we draw the line on how we define driving aids. We could argue power assisted brakes and steering are driver's aids. ABS, DSC, CC, all are 'aids' to safer driving. Even synchromesh is an aid to easier MT driving. I don't think we would argue a real MT driver prefers a 'crash' box.

What held AT back over here in Europe, was cost and mpg penalties. Remember we are historically MT drivers. Most small cars still are. Once AT efficiency and mpg improved, that took away a big block for drivers resisting AT.

Add in the higher power/torque engines, (particularly diesel) and AT was also the easy technical solution.

Plus, demand for MT fell off a cliff, even for cars like the M5. We didn't get an MT version of the F10 M5 in the UK, you don't offer the option if there is little demand.

BTW, I'm with you on the additional distractions in modern cars, I've commented on this in other threads. I remember writing to one of the UK motor magazines years ago, on my safety concerns with too much info via screens while on the move, how it is a distraction and goes against safe driving. Touch screens for driving related functions on the move... now there is a real safety hazard.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Remote start?

For what purpose? I have heated seats, gloves, and a 1/4-mile long driveway to get my engine up to speed not at idle. But then those of us who don't swap cars every three-years have different priorities toward longevity.

[DocL]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I try to avoid giving driving lessons on the internet, but you insist on trying to justify why you prefer automatics and dis the manual transmission. It's obvious you think people have no idea how to drive a manual in traffic. This may be based on your level of experience. Sure, you think some have experience shifting a transmission using the gear lever and clutch and mostly not grind the gears, but how to control the engine with gear selection may allude you; the comments made here seem to indicate that.

So, when driving a manual and carving traffic you are watching all of the traffic in front of you and behind, for the few moments you are in a group of cars, you observe the other driver's habits, their ability to judge and react to the traffic, what kind of car they drive, and how banged up their car is and where it is banged up. With all that data processed, you anticipate where the gaps will show up BEFORE they open, then ahead of time you select the correct gear for the RPM range you need the engine to be in for the power you need to get to the gap WHEN it opens. What is a nice recent advancement for us traffic carvers is blind-spot monitoring systems, because now they freeze drivers who lack situational awareness and would drive into a brick wall if their vehicle didn't warn them in advance. An even better advancement is Tesla's self-driving capability because it freezes Tesla's in place when you carve by them as their drivers are busy playing fart sounds in each passenger seat and not looking out at the road where their attention should be. "You" in the generic (i.e. people who know how to properly use a manual transmission).

The most recent autos I've driven are the ZF8 in a 2019 BMW 240i and Ford's 10-speed in a 2021 Bronco. Neither shifted when I wanted, not even in sport mode. Automatics are programmed to shift when the EPA wants them to shift for fuel and emissions regs adherence. Manuals ALWAYS shift when the driver wants them to and into the gear the driver wants them to.

I was going to write this exact same thing. But you can't argue with stoopid.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by RM7

It's a driver's aid, that's what you said. But we could use ABS then, if you are talking about driver's aids to avoid accidents? Then maybe SC and TC...

Better yet. Get rid of all the tech.

No more apple carplay, android auto. Get rid of bluetooth. Why use that? Just hold the cell phone to your ear like the good ol days.

Also get rid of power windows and power locks. Gotta save weight!

Let's live in the 80s again! So we can all row gears!

This shit is hilarious. Can't wait for that manual percentage to go down as each year passes. Not because i hate manual. But because to spite people similar to those posting in this thread LOL

[nicholasn]

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. I think certain people on this thread do not understand this. Why is the E39 M5 more desirable than the E60 M5? Someone tell me why using quantifiable figures. There are subjective things that can't be measured and will never be understood by those who live life based off of numbers on paper.

To analogize, why are vinyl record sales soaring in an age where much higher-quality digital music is available instantly at your fingertips? I don't think it's the sound quality...it's almost like there's some other subjective quality that can't be quantified, but appeals to music enthusiasts in a way that can't be replicated by digital copies.

[DocL]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Better yet. Get rid of all the tech...


Let's live in the 80s again! So we can all row gears!...

Now this I can agree with you on 100%. The 80s was the best decade.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I suppose it depends on where we draw the line on how we define driving aids.

Windshield wipers, mechanical ignition advances mechanisms, and headlights were add-on driving aids at some point in the the evolution of the modern car.

Though when you think about it (for those that think anyway), none of those aids can take control of the "driving" of the car.

Automatics replace what was formerly a drivers function/action/decision.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by DocL

Now this I can agree with you on 100%. The 80s was the best decade.

I think the 2010s was the best decade.

That's when auto finally surpassed the manual

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Automatics replace what was formerly a drivers function/action/decision.

BTW, I'm not against MT. As previous posts on MT vs. AT, I only owned MT for my first 30-years of driving. Know from experience every bit about MT, from driving crash gearboxes right through to our current 6-speed MT. No issues with driving MT, if the gearbox and clutch is set up well.

What I don't get with our latest autos, is the thinking there is lack of 'control', which seems to fill these pages. Yes, go back to the days of 3/4-speed Borg-Warner automatics and I agree, we were at the mercy of 'it' deciding which gear and when.

With our latest ATs, other than engine/gearbox protection, (which is a good thing IMO, and many an MT driver could benefit from that in their driving), we have control. Since we've had transmission management along with steptronic, we've had far more control than many give AT credit for.

Now if I was driving something like a Z4 or M2, I'd want MT. But in something like my 5-series wagon, as a daily driver, AT all the way.

Do I have control with AT? I sure do, if and when I want it. With a shifter and paddles, plus a throttle and brakes, all feed in the control I want and require. Only bit missing is the clutch.

For me driving AT, does not mean I must leave the gear selection to the 'vehicle', I can get as involved as I want to be.

[10"]

been driving only manual for over 20 years. Driving a 2-series loaner that has an Autobox this week and I hate automatics so much—-in NYC traffic it's even more annoying to have any automatic. Hoping I get my 1M back soon.

No there is no involvement in automatics. The paddles suck. It still feels lurchy and annoying.

[Patrick]

I sometimes think I miss it, but then I take off from the lights while drinking my coffee 😊

I do think I would have more fun in a manual but not sure how long I would keep my license haha

[Fined]

Originally Posted by nicholasn

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted. I think certain people on this thread do not understand this. Why is the E39 M5 more desirable than the E60 M5? Someone tell me why using quantifiable figures. There are subjective things that can't be measured and will never be understood by those who live life based off of numbers on paper.

To analogize, why are vinyl record sales soaring in an age where much higher-quality digital music is available instantly at your fingertips? I don't think it's the sound quality...it's almost like there's some other subjective quality that can't be quantified, but appeals to music enthusiasts in a way that can't be replicated by digital copies.

Agreed, for the most part. I think this statement can apply equally to both manual and dual clutch/multi-clutch transmissions in different cars with various use cases. I don't see it in absolutes like many here do.

There are combinations of drivetrain that are really enjoyable in their specific implementation. I loved the N52 engine combined with the manual gearbox in my old 128i. I wouldn't have it any other way. Conversely, I really appreciate the naturally aspirated flat 6 and dual clutch in my 997 911. Something about the combination of hydraulic steering with a naturally aspirated engine, along with something from modern times in the form of a dual clutch, but not the super smooth dual clutch gearboxes of 202x.. more of the mechanical feeling dual clutch of the 2010 time period.. where you feel and hear the gearbox doing its work and you can feel the gears getting engaged, still happening a lot more quickly than a manual.

I have no doubt plenty of people would not like that, but its ok, I'm the only person who buys cars for myself, so there doesn't need to be a consensus about what is good or not good. I think we all end up buying cars for ourselves, again.. no need for a consensus, or proving which is better.

There is definitely a place for both in my garage!

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I think the 2010s was the best decade.

That's when auto finally surpassed the manual

2010 is when BMW's still had good autos...DCT.

[Soul Coughing]

All of "my" cars are manual and I will try as long as possible to keep driving them. There's a great connection I get with the car when driving; even mundanely that keeps me enjoying the drive. My M3 will basically drive itself from a stop with the auto brake hold on inclines, and perfect throttle application, so its not even hard to drive in stop and go traffic like my S2000 and GP.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

.

Do I have control with AT? I sure do, if and when I want it. With a shifter and paddles, plus a throttle and brakes, all feed in the control I want and require. Only bit missing is the clutch.

For me driving AT, does not mean I must leave the gear selection to the 'vehicle', I can get as involved as I want to be.

everyone's definition of control is different.

i haven't found an automatic box that can deliver the control a ferrari dct or porsche pdk can offer. if i ask pdk for a downshift at 5k rpm while the brakes are screeching it gives it to me no questions before i can even unclick the paddle, even if there is only 100rpm left until redline.

its pretty evident when you drive an auto supra and dct m2 back to back. or a aston vantage and amg gt (they share the same engine but one has a zf8 and the other is a dct)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

everyone's definition of control is different.

I'll agree with that comment.

I suppose it also depends on how we see and work within the limits built into any driving system. Like DSC, many are quite willing to drive within the limits of the preset parameters and thresholds. Other drivers want DSC completely off, even when DSC would be better left on to 'protect' the driver.

Even a lot of MT drivers don't have 'control', even with a clutch and stick.

[NealfromNZ]

Here's what I like about each transmission in the garage

1
manual 4 speed with close ratios
Get to heal and toe on down shifts to rev match. Old school nostalgia
Bit more control for drifting ( which I suck at )

2 DCT,
super fast down and up shifts. No loading / unloading of car during gear change on those 3 rd to 4th changes on fast sweepers on the limit of traction. Crisp fast shifting at exactly where you want your shift point markers on the track.

3, auto
Great for commute and family holidays, less likely to spill coffee. More comfortable shifting for passengers

4, 6 speed sequential motorcycle gearbox
Clutches up shifts , power wheelies from second to third

5 SMG
Similar to manual feel , but faster changes. Banging down two gears quickly
Launch control 😀
Manual Throttle blipping capable on down shifts . ( not many people know this )
Less corner unloading / loading on gear change than manual.
Hill hold when stationary

[RM7]

I guess no one else has experienced when a DCT is forced to go the other way or down two gears? Its not without some negative, even though id still rock one in a 911.

My manual does rev match and NLS and i wouldn’t trade those features. Yes, i can rev match, but the computer is better and its funner to drive at 10/10.

[Bootboot340]

I don't miss it because I do it every day. And in every car I've ever owned. The only was to fly for me.