[Bee Pee]

Great day to truly get to grips with the car safely and see how/why TC, ABS etc work effectively and be taught had to drive the cars at max attack mode w/o relying on these systems.





Photos taken from this BabyBmw post

[fatihy]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

I think we need some more orange in this thread.
Attachment 805368

I think so My new baby is also orange

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Great day to truly get to grips with the car safely and see how/why TC, ABS etc work effectively and be taught had to drive the cars at max attack mode w/o relying on these systems.

Without ABS too?

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

Without ABS too?

No, ABS active just understanding the theory behind both trail braking and threshold braking.

Then putting both into practice to keep control of the steering at the grip limit under heavy braking, later braking, shorter stopping distances & shedding speed quicker. Principles that benefit more on TD's but may also prove useful on the road in low grip conditions.

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

No, ABS active just understanding the theory behind both trail braking and threshold braking.

Then putting both into practice to keep control of the steering at the grip limit under heavy braking, later braking, shorter stopping distances & shedding speed quicker. Principles that benefit more on TD's but may also prove useful on the road in low grip conditions.

Yes, the early apex late braking strategy can come in very handy if you overshoot the braking zone for a sudden corner out on real roads too. Or if you discover that the road has iced over just before a corner.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

Yes, the early apex late braking strategy can come in very handy if you overshoot the braking zone for a sudden corner out on real roads too. Or if you discover that the road has iced over just before a corner.

In a similar vane, Colin Hoad preaches the fastest way round hairpins is brake later and deeper into the corner [trail braking towards the latter stage] then turn later so clipping point is past apex.

We all tried it and it works v well indeed...

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

In a similar vane, Colin Hoad preaches the fastest way round hairpins is brake later and deeper into the corner [trail braking towards the latter stage] then turn later so clipping point is past apex.

We all tried it and it works v well indeed...

But looking at the race line of a trail braking car, it will be a spiral that tightens towards the end. In most corners this will lead to an earlier apex. This line is best suited for corners going from a fast section to a slower section of the track. Late apex is important for corners leading up to straights. In that case, a wide entry is necessary.

My experience with hairpins, is that a parabolic line with trail braking into a tight and slow apex works best. The exception is very underpowered cars like mine, where you have to carry more speed with a faster apex and more circular line.

[Bee Pee]

Apex of bend is fixed driven by bend geometry, whereas clipping point [entry -->> exit] shifts depending on variables such as entry/exit path, speed etc etc

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Apex of bend is fixed driven by bend geometry, whereas clipping point [entry -->> exit] shifts depending on variables such as entry/exit path, speed etc etc

Yes, the terminology is used in different ways by different people. I prefer to only refer to apex, and it is the point where the regular racing line touches the inner edge of the track in a corner. If you alter the racing line to touch earlier, that is an early apex (fast entry, late braking, wide and slow exit), and a later touch is a late apex (slow and wide entry, early throttle). Or both if you are running a double apex (fast entry, slow mid corner, fast exit). You can also call them clipping points.

[mrtaylor97]

recently purchased a used 2012 116i Sport! Picking it up on Saturday but i've test driven it and it was a pleasure. This will be my first BMW, Apologies in advance as these pictures are from the dealer as i didn't have time to take my own when i went to view it.







let me know what you think and any tips/advice about the car is welcome!

[GeoBem007]

[

[Dsrt]

Whee first post!

[vladberca]

@GeoBem007 always with dynamic photos 👍
How was the experience on the 'ring?
How often do you track your car?

[EM58NDS 135i]

[MJuan40i]

Hey guys, I'd like to present my F20, it is a Mineralgrau Metallic 2017 M140i 5dr, RWD, Steptronic.

I've already retrofitted/added a few bits: NBT Evo iDrive 4, M2 Extended dashboard, GAZP front splitter and Dinan Midpipe.

Hope you like it, greetings from Colombia

[Bee Pee]

Not my car but saw this on FB and, given its specs and how it looks, thought it was worth sharing on here...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

lowered on B14 c/o's/M4 arms/245/40/18 track tyres on 8" et34mm all round





Arch roll needed at the front to clear tall/wide/square Toyo 888R 245/40/18 tyres.



No arch roll needed for MPSS 245/35/18.....

[Kasteel]

With
- stock dampers (adaptive)
- Eibach Springs
- m3 lca+ts
- et40
- 8j
- 245/35-18

It did rub

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Kasteel

With
- stock dampers
- Eibach Springs
- et40
- 8j
- 245/35-18

It did rub

F2x LCA or F8x LCA or F8x LCA & TS ?

Kasteel - Not surprised TBH - saw an M135i on stock F2x lower arms, stock passive dampers/stock wheels/tyres and eibachs at Millbrook test track - LH front tyre/wheel arch fouled and showed contact damage to the bodywork - confirms my ho-hum view of passive oem dampers c/w eibach springs on Mx35i.

My car - running Birds B1S with wider and more aggressive offset front wheels and F8x arms - driven as hard if not harder at the same circuit - no issues. BP

[Kasteel]

BP, do you reckon the Eibachs are too low/soft?

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Kasteel

BP, do you reckon the Eibachs are too low/soft?

Maybe both but I think oem passive dampers are the main issue. Std passive dampers are a low-rent budget product with limited effectiveness, even with stock springs.

Drive a pre-LCI at anything over 6/10ths and the mediocre passive damping soon shows. Fit lower springs [any brand TBH] means shorter travel so limited stroke reduces the damping effectiveness even more.

I ran H&R sport springs on adaptive with stock bumpstops. Despite being lower than eibachs, they worked very well. Adaptive dampers have their limitations but IMHO they're better behaved than passive, if fitting lower springs.

[Kasteel]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Maybe both but I think oem passive dampers are the main issue. Std passive dampers are a low-rent budget product with limited effectiveness, even with stock springs.

Drive a pre-LCI at anything over 6/10ths and the mediocre passive damping soon shows. Fit lower springs [any brand TBH] means shorter travel so limited stroke reduces the damping effectiveness even more.

I ran H&R sport springs on adaptive with stock bumpstops. Despite being lower than eibachs, they worked very well. Adaptive dampers have their limitations but IMHO they're better behaved than passive, if fitting lower springs.

Sorry, I updated after your first reaction, I also run adaptive .

[ovekvam]

The adaptive dampers can cope with slighty stiffer springs in stiff mode than the passive dampers. Make sure you ALWAYS run them in the stiff settings. In general, using stiffer springs without stiffer dampers is a really bad idea. I know many BMW owners who are happy with such setups, but it is only because they have never driven a car with a matched setup. It is significantly better. I would always upgrade the dampers before the springs.