BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos > Mid-engine Corvette Spy shots
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-13-2019, 12:09 PM   #177
supra93
Major
United_States
901
Rep
1,225
Posts

Drives: CLK500, E500, Supra, RX-7
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      04-13-2019, 12:12 PM   #178
TXSTYLE
BIGMARCUS
TXSTYLE's Avatar
United_States
3381
Rep
2,019
Posts

Drives: F01 ~ Mineral White
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The GYM! (The Burbs - N TX)

iTrader: (0)

I too am curious as to why the side vent is so damn LARGE?
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/Cpax7En.jpg
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2019, 12:14 PM   #179
TXSTYLE
BIGMARCUS
TXSTYLE's Avatar
United_States
3381
Rep
2,019
Posts

Drives: F01 ~ Mineral White
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The GYM! (The Burbs - N TX)

iTrader: (0)

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by supra93 View Post
Gotta love ho the C8 was being flaked by all of those Black SUVs like a Dignitary!
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/Cpax7En.jpg
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2019, 12:17 PM   #180
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
2355
Rep
7,578
Posts

Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post
I too am curious as to why the side vent is so damn LARGE?
How else are you going to feed a large motor?

[IMG]https://pictures.dealer.com/a/autoem...size&w=650[/IMG]
Appreciate 2
TXSTYLE3380.50
N54Yankee590.00

      04-13-2019, 04:22 PM   #181
supra93
Major
United_States
901
Rep
1,225
Posts

Drives: CLK500, E500, Supra, RX-7
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Here is the official C8 site.

https://www.chevrolet.com/upcoming-v...ation-corvette
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2019, 05:52 PM   #182
WestRace
Lieutenant
139
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Hopefully the side intake scoops are just camo because they don't seem to look integrated to the rear quarter. They kind of sticking out. Looking forward to see the real thing.

Here is my concern with the C8. When the C6 came out, it was fast, but whenever being compared to the 911 S, although it was faster at the track, people always ended up picking the 911 S as the winner. When it comes to the finer things, the C6 always came up short - a lot short. GM fixed a lot of that in the C7 but still it does not quite measure up the 911 standard.

There is a lot of talk about the C8 will start around 65K or somewhere there but I just hope the C8 won't be the C6 of mid engine Corvette - fast but feeling a bit crude and unsophisticated. I still don't see how you can make a proper mid-engine with that kind of performance for 65K unless you will compromise on the quality.

Last edited by WestRace; 04-13-2019 at 06:10 PM.
Appreciate 1
      04-15-2019, 08:11 AM   #183
David70
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
731
Rep
1,879
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
Hopefully the side intake scoops are just camo because they don't seem to look integrated to the rear quarter. They kind of sticking out. Looking forward to see the real thing.

Here is my concern with the C8. When the C6 came out, it was fast, but whenever being compared to the 911 S, although it was faster at the track, people always ended up picking the 911 S as the winner. When it comes to the finer things, the C6 always came up short - a lot short. GM fixed a lot of that in the C7 but still it does not quite measure up the 911 standard.

There is a lot of talk about the C8 will start around 65K or somewhere there but I just hope the C8 won't be the C6 of mid engine Corvette - fast but feeling a bit crude and unsophisticated. I still don't see how you can make a proper mid-engine with that kind of performance for 65K unless you will compromise on the quality.
It never seems to measure up with the 911 but because of the price difference the Corvette sales are far ahead of the 911. U.S. sales 2017& 2018 Porsche 18,753 (8970 + 9783), Corvette 43,868 (25079 + 18789) - over double. If the price is close to half the competitor you don't have to match up 1:1. Problem would be if they end up costing close to the same, all the issues that people overlook in the much cheaper Corvette become bigger issues. I also would prefer to buy a 911 but considering the price (most care to some degree) I absolutely see why so many buy Corvettes. Once it isn't a "performance bargain" they end up with a lot of extra issues, like higher expectations. Then, even faster than "X" only matters to a point, and at this point, getting 100% out of any of these cars on the road is really impossible.

Not a reply to your thread but just in general - As a buyer I wouldn't care much that I am slightly slower around an equal track with an equal driver. I have done track days (a tiny portion of the buyers actually do), they don't keep times, I don't win money, there isn't someone with exactly the same ability and in the end 1 second faster around a track doesn't matter at all to me. The never ending discussions on track times are only applicable to the internet, magazines, and car shows.
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete

Last edited by David70; 04-15-2019 at 10:17 AM.
Appreciate 2
      04-15-2019, 01:54 PM   #184
WestRace
Lieutenant
139
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
It never seems to measure up with the 911 but because of the price difference the Corvette sales are far ahead of the 911. U.S. sales 2017& 2018 Porsche 18,753 (8970 + 9783), Corvette 43,868 (25079 + 18789) - over double. If the price is close to half the competitor you don't have to match up 1:1. Problem would be if they end up costing close to the same, all the issues that people overlook in the much cheaper Corvette become bigger issues.
That's what I was trying to point out the fact that the Corvette had those "refinement" issue because of the price. Like I said, Corvette recipe has always been affordable performance at the cost of "refinement". My point is with the mid engine Corvette, I am not sure people will over look those things. Also the price I've heard from various sources that it will be around 65K to start. In my opinion, for 65K, you can't make a mid engine with that type of performance unless you will compromise on the quality and I don't mean interior stuffs. I mean quality in term of structural integrity, drive train refinement, and handling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Not a reply to your thread but just in general - As a buyer I wouldn't care much that I am slightly slower around an equal track with an equal driver. I have done track days (a tiny portion of the buyers actually do), they don't keep times, I don't win money, there isn't someone with exactly the same ability and in the end 1 second faster around a track doesn't matter at all to me. The never ending discussions on track times are only applicable to the internet, magazines, and car shows.
That was also my point. Everybody knows the Corvette is fast but up to a point, does it really matter if you are going to compromise on refinement, structural integrity issues? If you bought a C7 Z06, does it matter that it is absolutely fast but you can't explore its limits because of its compromising handling characteristics so the car may be fast, but you probably won't have fun driving it.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2019, 02:25 AM   #185
eluded
2JZ-GTE
eluded's Avatar
Bulgaria
1323
Rep
2,455
Posts

Drives: 340 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Sofia

iTrader: (0)

If there is no more manual Tranny than I can't wait to see the all electric version.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2019, 04:21 PM   #186
pearlpower
Private First Class
52
Rep
113
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Beverly Grove

iTrader: (0)

A vast majority of Corvettes, Porsches, BMWs, etc., are never driven hard. Once in a while a driver will poke the gas and that is the extent of it. They will never care about what so many others are consumed over, such as rigidity, 1/4, 0-60, etc., or what a magazine declares as a winner.

A new Vette is coming. Will I buy one? IDK. Give it a year to iron our any major tweaks and I will look into it as I am looking for a two door this year. But, there are so many nice cars out these days, it is tough to go wrong.

Live you life, not others. Buy for yourself, not for others. And enjoy your car.
__________________
E53 X5 4.8is-Dinan S2-Street Brawler, E70 X5M-The stoplight shocker, Velos ST2, Downpipes
AMG E55K-539 RWHP, 629RWTQ-my toy, GX470-the unbreakable truck.
F30 328i-JB4 STG 2. Daily MPG Beater, 02-WS6, 6sp my other toy
...other stuff parked around here somewhere
Appreciate 1
Rmtt373.00

      04-17-2019, 12:25 PM   #187
Rmtt
Lieutenant
Rmtt's Avatar
United_States
373
Rep
584
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 128i
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Southeast

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pearlpower View Post
A vast majority of Corvettes, Porsches, BMWs, etc., are never driven hard. Once in a while a driver will poke the gas and that is the extent of it. They will never care about what so many others are consumed over, such as rigidity, 1/4, 0-60, etc., or what a magazine declares as a winner.

A new Vette is coming. Will I buy one? IDK. Give it a year to iron our any major tweaks and I will look into it as I am looking for a two door this year. But, there are so many nice cars out these days, it is tough to go wrong.

Live you life, not others. Buy for yourself, not for others. And enjoy your car.
I feel the same. Have had tons of car that you can't really explore the limits of on the street.

I could afford to buy quite a few different cars that are 2-3 times the cost of my current C6 when it sold new...well with a little persuasion of the wife.

But I ended up with what I did because the price was right and it performed well enough for me to have some fun when I wanted to. Out of the box and stock, they are pretty impressive IMO for their price point. And my car doesn't sound like a tin can with any rattles.

But just a little bit of money in motor and suspension upgrades makes the car a different animal. It responds so easily to mods thrown at it, and the aftermarket is huge.

The biggest allure to me was that I enjoy wrenching on my cars. With the Corvette I can do that easily and a lot cheaper than what most may think. I can even do my own tuning.

But for around $5K in the mods I mentioned above, I have a car that has 460/465 to the rear wheels...and can also eat corners in the mountains like it's on a set of rails. It has so much more capability in it than I do as a "weekend driver".

Plus I have other hobbies that I enjoy putting money into aside from also liking to be debt free.

Now when the C8 does come out, I will probably gravitate over to a C7. I always buy a generation behind as I find the best deals that way. And for a car that I can pay cash for and not have any debt, it's been a fun ride as I am currently on my 6th one.

Also call me lucky, but I have never had an issue with any of my Corvettes. I have thrashed the shit out of all of them when given the chance, and not once had to worry about any issues or concerns when getting into it for the next drive.
__________________
2011 128i: 3:73 Rear Diff, 3SI- more updates coming!

2008 Z51 C6 LS3 w/ LG SuperPros, Ported Fast 102 Intake, RPM Level 2 Transmission, "Small Cam" Vararam SnakeCharmer CAI
Appreciate 0
      Today, 02:25 PM   #188
WestRace
Lieutenant
139
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

A bit of technical discussion of leaf springs vs. coilovers.

https://www.corvetteonline.com/tech-...vers-vs-leafs/

Quote:
The most common issue with the stock transverse leaf springs on a car that gets driven hard is what’s called “Cross-Talk.” This refers to the fact that the Corvette’s suspension isn’t actually 100% independent since the leaf spans to both sides of the car, and connects the two sides much like sway bar. This is when we get back around to how the leaf acting like a sway bar can be a bad thing.

“The term ‘cross talk’ is really a generalized term that refers to one fact: the transverse leaf spring on a Corvettes suspension has characteristics that are similar to an anti-roll bar effect (only promoting roll potentially, in lieu of fighting it) on top of a progressive spring rate. Cross talk happens whenever the car is in roll, meaning whenever it is in a turn and the body starts to roll over the wheels, compressing the suspension. The symptoms are the spring giving a harsh ride and abrupt transitions from a neutral balance or understeer balance, to an oversteer balance, or vice versa.” Sonnen explains.

The leaf spring reduces the true independence of the suspension, although it is still technically geometrically independent.
Sonnen continued by giving us this great example; “Imagine that you have a beam, pivoting upon a single point like a see-saw. For our purposes, imagine it is actually clamped down to the pivot point. When you pull down on one side, the other side naturally wants to move upwards with about the same amount of force.”
“Now take that see-saw scenario and add a second pivot point, again being clamped down say, two feet away from the first pivot point. Now, you are pushing down on one side, which makes the inside of the first pivot point want to be forced upward, which in turn wants to force the outboard side on the second pivot point downward! This is basically what you have going on with the transverse leaf spring system used on the Corvette: the right wheel gets pushed up during compression, and the left wheel gets pushed down.”

Sonnen continues, “The leaf spring reduces the true independence of the suspension, although it is still technically geometrically independent. Using the see-saw example, you can see that any deflection on one side of the leaf, like when you are in a turn and the car’s body starts to roll and compresses the suspension, will have an adverse effect on the other side of the leaf. Adding to the problem is the rising rate in the transverse leaf spring, meaning more force is required to compress it from, say 2-4 inches of bump, than 0-2 inches of bump. This can contribute to a harsh ride characteristic and tendency for abrupt transitions that Corvettes, and especially C6 Z06s, are known for.
Quote:
When you’re looking to shave every tenth of a second off your lap times, then its time to step up a set of adjustable coilovers.

Now, hopefully you get the idea that the stock leafs aren’t terrible, and that they actually work very well, so we’re ready to talk about coilovers. Coilovers can have a lot to offer on both street driven and track toy late model Corvettes. “Most of our customers at Pfadt are not building 100% full-race cars, and they want to be able to drive their cars on the street a lot,” Sonnen explains. “Another advantage to coilovers is that there is a tremendous amount to be gained in terms of ride quality because with a truly independent suspension where you can control the spring rates on each corner, you are able to eliminate many of the negative effects of the leaf springs. So with coilovers you can tune your suspension for great streetability and trackability.”

He goes on to say, “The stock suspension is great, but all of the premiere race cars will make the move to a coilover for a reason, and that is to really make the suspension fully independent, and to gain the ability to fine tune the spring rates on all four corners with an almost infinite variety of springs and rates that are available for coilovers.”

The C5/C6 Corvettes actually lend themselves to coilover swaps pretty well. Sonnen tells us, “If a C5/C6 owner is looking at possibly doing a coilover swap from stock leaf springs, it is actually a very straightforward installation. You just remove the stock leaf springs and shocks, and the coilovers bolt in right in place of your stock shocks, and then you just adjust them to your desired ride height. We typically ship our coilovers precalibrated with a ride height that is typically about three quarters of an inch lower than stock, but at the end of the day the right height is totally up to the owner’s discretion. Once you’re done, don’t forget to get the car aligned. A big benefit of coilovers is that they ultimately end up weighing a fair amount less than the stock shocks and leafs that you took off the car.”
If you’re planning to spend the vast majority of your time on the street, then a stock style suspension will likely be enough for you, but if your Corvette will share a significant amount of time between the street and the track, the you might want to look into a set of coilovers so you can have the best of both worlds.
Appreciate 0
      Today, 02:39 PM   #189
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
2355
Rep
7,578
Posts

Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Uh huh. Sure thing. Just go to a track with whatever car you'd like and try to parse why all those cross talking shitboxes keep putting down faster times than you.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

This sort of post reminds me of Honda guys trying to claim that BMW or Porsches using McPherson struts were inferior to their fancy Civics. Or back when E46 M3's outbraked most things that they really needed multi piston fixed calipers.

It all sounds great on paper, but the real world doesn't support these theories.
Appreciate 0
      Today, 02:57 PM   #190
WestRace
Lieutenant
139
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Uh huh. Sure thing. Just go to a track with whatever car you'd like and try to parse why all those cross talking shitboxes keep putting down faster times than you.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

This sort of post reminds me of Honda guys trying to claim that BMW or Porsches using McPherson struts were inferior to their fancy Civics. Or back when E46 M3's outbraked most things that they really needed multi piston fixed calipers.

It all sounds great on paper, but the real world doesn't support these theories.
Except the real world C7R race car uses coilovers. I guess your real world is mostly not real enough lols.
Appreciate 0
      Today, 03:21 PM   #191
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
2355
Rep
7,578
Posts

Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestRace View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Uh huh. Sure thing. Just go to a track with whatever car you'd like and try to parse why all those cross talking shitboxes keep putting down faster times than you.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...storical-data/

This sort of post reminds me of Honda guys trying to claim that BMW or Porsches using McPherson struts were inferior to their fancy Civics. Or back when E46 M3's outbraked most things that they really needed multi piston fixed calipers.

It all sounds great on paper, but the real world doesn't support these theories.
Except the real world C7R race car uses coilovers. I guess your real world is mostly not real enough lols.
And an RSR 911 has its engine in the middle. What's your point? On a track, a C7Z is hard to beat, with any car. You keep trying to argue they're not fast, or they're not comfortable or they're, I honestly don't know what, you haven't really established anything aside from the simple fact that you have pre conceived ideas about Corvettes.

I have factual based experience with them at numerous tracks that in a nutshell say your arguments are bunk. Larger lols.
Appreciate 0
      Today, 03:25 PM   #192
Mingwan
Captain
1041
Rep
975
Posts

Drives: Beastly
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (0)

Not bad for what? 60k?
Appreciate 0
      Today, 03:42 PM   #193
WestRace
Lieutenant
139
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
And an RSR 911
what does it have to do with RSR 911? I was talking about the C7.R which is the racing version of the C7 vette. Did you read the article above? You seem to ignore suspension design physic, logic, reason, and so on. So you think those guys who done Vette racing have preconceived prejudice about vettes? If that's the case, why in the world are they racing vettes? The link above from Corvette forum and not some BMW or Porsche fanbois forums ... well at least there are vette drivers who keep an open mind.
Appreciate 0
      Today, 03:44 PM   #194
WestRace
Lieutenant
139
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: E46 M3, E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Los Angels, Ca.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingwan View Post
Not bad for what? 60k?
a mid engine corvette for 60k? maybe it's made in china lols. Sorry couldn't resist the joke.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:06 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST