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      05-21-2019, 12:22 PM   #331
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My assessment of the final season:

The best episode was the war against the undead episode. Had some great elements to it!

The burning of Kings Landing was kind of lame. Cerci's death was lame. The Cleagan bowl was pretty good.

The season finale was slow, kind of lame, but good overall.
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      05-21-2019, 12:28 PM   #332
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I need to go back and rewatch the battle with the undead that was super dark. The PS4 app was too compressed I think it looks better on Apple TV.
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      05-21-2019, 12:44 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooded View Post
Drogon was clearly very distressed when he found his mother had been killed and almost burnt Jon Snow to a crisp, but as you point out Dragons are supposed to be very clever, and I think he realised that it was his mothers obsession with power and getting the iron throne that was the real cause of her demise, so took his anger out on that damn throne. If she had stayed in Meereen as their queen after freeing all the slaves she would most likely still be alive and have her friends by her side and all three dragons!
Interesting, I like it!
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      05-21-2019, 01:56 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
My assessment of the final season:

The best episode was the war against the undead episode. Had some great elements to it!

The burning of Kings Landing was kind of lame. Cerci's death was lame. The Cleagan bowl was pretty good.

The season finale was slow, kind of lame, but good overall.
Agree, Cersi's death was anti-climactic and unfulfilling. I was expecting something on the level of Arya killing Walder Frey. Didn't necessarily have to be Arya, but with all the evil Cersi did, the fans deserved better.

The biggest and most important plot in the series really is Jon Snow being a Targaryen. The only thing this storyline gave to the show was Sansa and Varys wanting him to rule instead of Dany, which resulted in distrust and deceit. This revelation was so much more important than that. But in the end, it really didn't matter.

Dany going "mad queen" at the last minute? Don't buy it given her character for 7 seasons.

Bran was useless and being the 3 eyed raven provided nothing to the show, especially in season 8. And then we have Bran the Broken? For fucks sake. This isn't the Vikings. When Jaime lost his hand, he wasn't called Jaime the Handless.

Speaking of Jaime, he told Brienne that he never really cared about the innocents. Really? He told her the one thing he never told anyone else - that he killed the mad king because he was going to use dragon fire to burn king's landing and kill thousands of innocent people. Jaime stopped that. He also stopped Brienne from being raped and lost a hand for it, as well as leaving Cersi under the threat of death to fight for the living when he went to winterfell. Yes, he was a dick when he pushed Bran out of the window in season 1, but his character arc was a path of redemption for so many seasons and then all of a sudden he goes 180 degrees the other way?

And we've been told for 7 seasons that the long night is coming and it will be the worst in 1000 years - and it only lasted on night, one battle.

Just seems like there was no effort put into this.
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      05-21-2019, 01:59 PM   #335
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well this is the problem with all tv or movie productions, you simply don't get to narrate plot holes because everything is done on screen. Like Im sure so many things about the dragon not lighting snow on fire would be detailed in the book but not in the show.

its like dumbledore's death in the movie/book complete let down
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      05-21-2019, 02:01 PM   #336
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So maybe this has been asked before, but what "crime" exactly did Jon commit? Jon was the rightful heir to the throne. Dany claimed she had the right but understood that her claim was a rung below Jon's. So you have someone who does not have the rightful claim to the throne destroying a city in an attempt to seize it and the rightful heir to the throne kills her in the process. Case closed. Why is Jon suddenly a criminal? He should have been like "So I changed my mind, I'm the rightful king. I just took control F you Gray Worm. As my first act as king I'm giving the unsullied the choice to be destroyed, or, leave peacefully. As my second act, I step down and hand the title over to Bran.

I mean, at some point he's sitting in a dungeon at King's landing waiting for his fate to be decided and he's gotta be thinking "Wait, but I'm actually the king."
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      05-21-2019, 02:07 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
I need to go back and rewatch the battle with the undead that was super dark. The PS4 app was too compressed I think it looks better on Apple TV.
Thatís how I watched it the first time, and I was surprised everyone said it was too dark. It wasnít for me.
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      05-21-2019, 02:07 PM   #338
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I wonder if Jon was fireproof. I'm ok with the resolution to the dragon problem, but, as a Targaryen, was Jon fireproof like Dany? If so, should he have taken control of the dragon after Dany's death and bent greyworm to his will?
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      05-21-2019, 02:08 PM   #339
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Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
So maybe this has been asked before, but what "crime" exactly did Jon commit? Jon was the rightful heir to the throne. Dany claimed she had the right but understood that her claim was a rung below Jon's. So you have someone who does not have the rightful claim to the throne destroying a city in an attempt to seize it and the rightful heir to the throne kills her in the process. Case closed. Why is Jon suddenly a criminal? He should have been like "So I changed my mind, I'm the rightful king. I just took control F you Gray Worm. As my first act as king I'm giving the unsullied the choice to be destroyed, or, leave peacefully. As my second act, I step down and hand the title over to Bran.

I mean, at some point he's sitting in a dungeon at King's landing waiting for his fate to be decided and he's gotta be thinking "Wait, but I'm actually the king."
It does seem pretty lame that Sansa doesn't stand up for her brother when she wanted him to be king the whole time as the rightful heir. And he has the support of the people and everyone besides Grey Worm and the unsullied. The Dothraki don't give a shit they just want to win anyway they didn't have a vote.
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      05-21-2019, 02:20 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
It does seem pretty lame that Sansa doesn't stand up for her brother when she wanted him to be king the whole time as the rightful heir. And he has the support of the people and everyone besides Grey Worm and the unsullied. The Dothraki don't give a shit they just want to win anyway they didn't have a vote.
Sansa wanted to be queen badly enough that she agreed to have Jon banished to the North. Ultimate back-stab right there...
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      05-21-2019, 02:28 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
It does seem pretty lame that Sansa doesn't stand up for her brother when she wanted him to be king the whole time as the rightful heir. And he has the support of the people and everyone besides Grey Worm and the unsullied. The Dothraki don't give a shit they just want to win anyway they didn't have a vote.
Sansa wanted to be queen badly enough that she agreed to have Jon banished to the North. Ultimate back-stab right there...
It's easier to control bran and rule the seven kingdoms by proxy through a puppet king. That is more in line with the Sansa I know. That would be an excellent plot line for season 9. Jon is not fit to be king as he doesn't want it so Sansa will take it over once he disposes of Bran. Then Jon needs to do something about Sansa. Could go in for another two seasons.
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      05-21-2019, 02:34 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
It's easier to control bran and rule the seven kingdoms by proxy through a puppet king. That is more in line with the Sansa I know. That would be an excellent plot line for season 9. Jon is not fit to be king as he doesn't want it so Sansa will take it over once he disposes of Bran. Then Jon needs to do something about Sansa. Could go in for another two seasons.
Totally true. That could 100% be a whole season 9 and 10, with scenes of Arya's adventures thrown in for good measure. Come on HBO, let's do this!
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      05-21-2019, 02:41 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
It's easier to control bran and rule the seven kingdoms by proxy through a puppet king. That is more in line with the Sansa I know. That would be an excellent plot line for season 9. Jon is not fit to be king as he doesn't want it so Sansa will take it over once he disposes of Bran. Then Jon needs to do something about Sansa. Could go in for another two seasons.
Totally true. That could 100% be a whole season 9 and 10, with scenes of Arya's adventures thrown in for good measure. Come on HBO, let's do this!
The online petition to redo the season is unlikely to succeed. They can still continue from here that might work out renew for two more seasons with new writers at the helm. HBO might surprise us. Will be a couple of years before we see season 9 though, which isn't unlike HBO.
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      05-21-2019, 02:56 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
I wonder if Jon was fireproof. I'm ok with the resolution to the dragon problem, but, as a Targaryen, was Jon fireproof like Dany? If so, should he have taken control of the dragon after Dany's death and bent greyworm to his will?
No, I don't believe so. Her brother wasn't either. She is, and is why she is referred to as the unburnt.
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      05-21-2019, 02:58 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
The online petition to redo the season is unlikely to succeed. They can still continue from here that might work out renew for two more seasons with new writers at the helm. HBO might surprise us. Will be a couple of years before we see season 9 though, which isn't unlike HBO.
The re-do petition really makes me mad. Was the last season all I hoped it could be? No. But despite some stupid big plot holes, bad writing, and stray coffee cups, the cast, crew, editors, set designers, CGI folks, etc. worked their asses off and did a spectacular job. I think it disrespects them to demand a do-over.
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      05-21-2019, 02:58 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
So maybe this has been asked before, but what "crime" exactly did Jon commit? Jon was the rightful heir to the throne. Dany claimed she had the right but understood that her claim was a rung below Jon's. So you have someone who does not have the rightful claim to the throne destroying a city in an attempt to seize it and the rightful heir to the throne kills her in the process. Case closed. Why is Jon suddenly a criminal? He should have been like "So I changed my mind, I'm the rightful king. I just took control F you Gray Worm. As my first act as king I'm giving the unsullied the choice to be destroyed, or, leave peacefully. As my second act, I step down and hand the title over to Bran.

I mean, at some point he's sitting in a dungeon at King's landing waiting for his fate to be decided and he's gotta be thinking "Wait, but I'm actually the king."
one thing I didn't quite get was that. Who gives a hoot whose the right heir. Everyone dead. so technically the unsullied or dothraki shoulda elected their own leader. mutiny of sorts
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      05-21-2019, 03:00 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
So maybe this has been asked before, but what "crime" exactly did Jon commit? Jon was the rightful heir to the throne. Dany claimed she had the right but understood that her claim was a rung below Jon's. So you have someone who does not have the rightful claim to the throne destroying a city in an attempt to seize it and the rightful heir to the throne kills her in the process. Case closed. Why is Jon suddenly a criminal? He should have been like "So I changed my mind, I'm the rightful king. I just took control F you Gray Worm. As my first act as king I'm giving the unsullied the choice to be destroyed, or, leave peacefully. As my second act, I step down and hand the title over to Bran.

I mean, at some point he's sitting in a dungeon at King's landing waiting for his fate to be decided and he's gotta be thinking "Wait, but I'm actually the king."
one thing I didn't quite get was that. Who gives a hoot whose the right heir. Everyone dead. so technically the unsullied or dothraki shoulda elected their own leader. mutiny of sorts
Everyone just falls in line with Tyrion's recommendation. More likely they would have did like Sansa and ended up with seven independent kingdoms.
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      05-21-2019, 03:02 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
The online petition to redo the season is unlikely to succeed. They can still continue from here that might work out renew for two more seasons with new writers at the helm. HBO might surprise us. Will be a couple of years before we see season 9 though, which isn't unlike HBO.
The re-do petition really makes me mad. Was the last season all I hoped it could be? No. But despite some stupid big plot holes, bad writing, and stray coffee cups, the cast, crew, editors, set designers, CGI folks, etc. worked their asses off and did a spectacular job. I think it disrespects them to demand a do-over.
Also the water bottles.
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      05-21-2019, 03:13 PM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DETRoadster View Post
So maybe this has been asked before, but what "crime" exactly did Jon commit? Jon was the rightful heir to the throne. Dany claimed she had the right but understood that her claim was a rung below Jon's. So you have someone who does not have the rightful claim to the throne destroying a city in an attempt to seize it and the rightful heir to the throne kills her in the process. Case closed. Why is Jon suddenly a criminal? He should have been like "So I changed my mind, I'm the rightful king. I just took control F you Gray Worm. As my first act as king I'm giving the unsullied the choice to be destroyed, or, leave peacefully. As my second act, I step down and hand the title over to Bran.

I mean, at some point he's sitting in a dungeon at King's landing waiting for his fate to be decided and he's gotta be thinking "Wait, but I'm actually the king."

This is exactly what I was thinking while I was watching. All he needed to do was assume power briefly to set various events in motion, step down, pass the torch, then do absolutely whatever he wants with his life. I suppose that would have been too boring a story line though.
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      05-21-2019, 03:25 PM   #350
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This is exactly what I was thinking while I was watching. All he needed to do was assume power briefly to set various events in motion, step down, pass the torch, then do absolutely whatever he wants with his life. I suppose that would have been too boring a story line though.
To be fair, 8 seasons of Bran's entire story-line was boring, so, what's a few more minutes of boredom in the name of a reasonable ending?
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      05-21-2019, 04:38 PM   #351
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Jon had already sworn fealty to Dany, although he did throw that out Bran's window when he stabbed her. . .
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      05-21-2019, 08:21 PM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufel_Hunden View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwarzschild Radius View Post
My assessment of the final season:

The best episode was the war against the undead episode. Had some great elements to it!

The burning of Kings Landing was kind of lame. Cerci's death was lame. The Cleagan bowl was pretty good.

The season finale was slow, kind of lame, but good overall.
Agree, Cersi's death was anti-climactic and unfulfilling. I was expecting something on the level of Arya killing Walder Frey. Didn't necessarily have to be Arya, but with all the evil Cersi did, the fans deserved better.

The biggest and most important plot in the series really is Jon Snow being a Targaryen. The only thing this storyline gave to the show was Sansa and Varys wanting him to rule instead of Dany, which resulted in distrust and deceit. This revelation was so much more important than that. But in the end, it really didn't matter.

Dany going "mad queen" at the last minute? Don't buy it given her character for 7 seasons.

Bran was useless and being the 3 eyed raven provided nothing to the show, especially in season 8. And then we have Bran the Broken? For fucks sake. This isn't the Vikings. When Jaime lost his hand, he wasn't called Jaime the Handless.

Speaking of Jaime, he told Brienne that he never really cared about the innocents. Really? He told her the one thing he never told anyone else - that he killed the mad king because he was going to use dragon fire to burn king's landing and kill thousands of innocent people. Jaime stopped that. He also stopped Brienne from being raped and lost a hand for it, as well as leaving Cersi under the threat of death to fight for the living when he went to winterfell. Yes, he was a dick when he pushed Bran out of the window in season 1, but his character arc was a path of redemption for so many seasons and then all of a sudden he goes 180 degrees the other way?

And we've been told for 7 seasons that the long night is coming and it will be the worst in 1000 years - and it only lasted on night, one battle.

Just seems like there was no effort put into this.
Pretty much hit the nail on the head here. So many characters making last minute personality changes and numerous seemingly important storylines are glossed over and meaningless in the end.

I too was disappointed in the whole battle of the living/dead. While I enjoyed the episode it was literally just that, one episode. Ever since the opening scene of the pilot episode they have been building to the war between the living and the dead and then it's just over quickly in an hour. Plus of course the whole Bram/night king relationship not being explained whatsoever.
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