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      12-15-2010, 12:43 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by oasis3582 View Post
You talk about the Ultimate Driving Machine, then go on to say you'd buy an A3? What a joke.
Given the option between an X1 and an A3, does it still seem like a joke? I want a daily driver, and something like a 123d or even a 120d would be ideal. An A3 TDI would certainly be my second choice to the 1er, but well above an X1.

With the 3er moving up in size yet again, there's room for the 1er to become something more than just a coupe and convertible for the US market, but we won't get those offerings, again.
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      12-15-2010, 01:06 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
[Semi-serious rant]
Ding, exactly the reason I will not buy another BMW. Good job, propeller heads, you've officially lost your way. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" should not become the "Ultimate Fake Off Road Vehicle Just Because We Can't Determine That Americans Are Over SUV's (or SAV's)".

Put it in your brown eye, I'll buy an Audi A3 or Golf TDI, even though I've already owned and hated Audii before. This constant misstep towards trucks, electric steering, lack of limited slip diffs and under offering of diesels and hatches in the US market is ridiculous.

If BMW wants to see how to run an actual car company, simply look at what VW has done with their investments; they've saved Lamborghini, made Bentley mildly interesting, focused Audi and acquired Porsche. The Quandt's have done what? Made a barge of Rolls Royce, failed with Land Rover and lost momentum with Mini. Good work. More sport utes and pussified cars please. Oh, wait, no. F-off.

[/Semi-serious rant]
1) Americans are NOT over SUVs. Regardless, how does BMW offering SUV/SAVs have an effect on their cars? If anything it would allow the cars to be more focused on being CARS.

2) You'll buy an A3 or Golf even though you hated past offerings --- makes sense, ok....

3) BMW has probably been the most successful of the independant automakers in navigating the troubled economic/automotive times of the past year, by actually reducing costs, maintaining profits and moving forward on fuel efficiency and overall efficiency despite the lack of $$ in the marketplace. Your beloved VW has lost marketshare/sales in the same time period and haven't really come up with any innovations besides marketing the hell out of diesel technology, which is just marketing, not really new tech.

4) The Quandts have made a barge of RR? You are right, because all those RRs of the past were svelte two seat rockets.... <sarcasm>. On a percentage basis, RR sales have shot up bigger then any other brand you could name, RR is doing amazingly if you actually take a minute to google their sales figures for the last 10 years, you'll realize what a success story that car has been and will be with the new models coming out and expansion into new markets.

5) Lost momentum with MINI? Which sales figures are you looking at exactly? MINI is probably one of the hottest brands out there and it was built ground up by BMW.

6) More pussified cars? Let me guess you consider the 135i, 335i, 1M, M3 and M5 pussified cars? whats a real car? oh yea, your beloved A3... All this rage because your upset the 123d hatch isn't brought to the US, a REAL man's car. your arguments make NO sense. move along

(psst, i hate to put the nail in the coffin, but you do realize your "focused" audi brand has been on an SUV tear lately to try and catch up with BMW and MB?)

ON TOPIC: This next generation 1-series so far looks like its coming around nicely and will fit in with the rest of the BMW family well, change is inevitable, and if a car has to change, I like the way the 1series is evolving.
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      12-15-2010, 01:12 PM   #47
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I'm simply pointing out that attempting to placate the small (very small) part of the US market that wants a 1er hatch with an X1 is a bullshit move. There's a market for small, functional cars that BMW isn't fulfilling at the moment, discounting MINI. I'd still prefer a small rwd car to other offerings, but don't want a truck.

Offering both ends of the spectrum of the 1er platform seems like a more tenable situation that offering yet more SAV's. I'm gonna guess that the X1 and the Countryman share enough of the platform that there's little additional cost of offering the X1, but assuming that it will satiate those of us that want a small, efficient car is misguided at best.
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      12-15-2010, 02:44 PM   #48
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Lets hope that rear bumper never makes it in to production.

Not what I was expecting that is for sure.
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      12-15-2010, 02:48 PM   #49
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why do I feel that I am the only one who likes the X1?!
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BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.
You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?!
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      12-15-2010, 02:53 PM   #50
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[Semi-serious rant]
Ding, exactly the reason I will not buy another BMW. Good job, propeller heads, you've officially lost your way. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" should not become the "Ultimate Fake Off Road Vehicle Just Because We Can't Determine That Americans Are Over SUV's (or SAV's)".

The X range of SAV's is a priority for BMW because they are higly profitable for the company. Each X model has successful sales results , X1 for example was launched in Europe in late 2009 - 1 year later over 100,000 units of X1 has been sold.
X1 is the best selling SAV in Europe. Ahead of the Audi Q5 which was number 1.

X3 despite its reputation sold over 600,000 units over it's lifespan. The new F25 has shown signifcant results in it's first days of launch with customers in Europe ordering a X3 xDrive20d not being able to take delivery until next Spring.

X5 is the standard of a large premium SAV ,
It sets the standard in dynamics , design and quality.
X6 has sold over 120,000 units since launch that is significant as BMW expected sales of only 40,000 units in it's two years from launch.
When you check the sales figures you see each individual X vehicle showing a rise in sales. Demand for BMW X products is greater than ever.

Hence why an X4 Sport Activity Coupe is being developed for the future.

Put it in your brown eye, I'll buy an Audi A3 or Golf TDI, even though I've already owned and hated Audii before. This constant misstep towards trucks, electric steering, lack of limited slip diffs and under offering of diesels and hatches in the US market is ridiculous.

The above should cover the X scenario.
But technology is being developed by BMW to incorporate Efficient Dynamics. BMW are the worlds leader in achieving targets to reduce fuel consumption and less emissions. And this is their strategy. The road ahead is not clear so whatever happens when manufacturers are being forced off the road. BMW intend to keep on the road.

I am not going to get in a comparison with the VW or Audi as both have their attributes. But when you get down to the fact that a BMW is the ultimate driving machine. These two are no where near that league.

If the US Market wants these cars then it has to say it wants these cars it has to be more vocal. Right now they are vocal against these ideas to progress the US market. Change will be inflicted on the US market at some point in the future.


If BMW wants to see how to run an actual car company, simply look at what VW has done with their investments; they've saved Lamborghini, made Bentley mildly interesting, focused Audi and acquired Porsche. The Quandt's have done what? Made a barge of Rolls Royce, failed with Land Rover and lost momentum with Mini. Good work. More sport utes and pussified cars please. Oh, wait, no. F-off.

VW is a mass of resources that BMW can dream of.
Everything is built to one philosophy.But VW are concerned about one thing and that is volume and being number 1. We will get back to the VAG brands in a minute. But lets look at the BMW Brands.

Rolls-Royce? 2 procuct lines Ghost and Phantom , With the Phantom spawning four models and the Ghost about to follow suit. Sales are exceptional thanks to the Ghost and the US has lost it's position as the Worlds largest market for RR it is now China.

MINI - they said it would be like the VW Beetle - a fashion gone in fifteen minutes. MINI has outlasted the Beetle thanks to innovative marketing and product itself , MINI has been a huge success for BMW , The new MINI Countryman is sold out until next Spring and the MINI Coupe is around the corner. MINI is the prefect synthesis of a product fused with modern culture.
It is simply revisiting the mini in the sixties as an icon and re-inventing it for the present day. The result? MINI is a highly respected brand with a great product line-up.
You only have to see how the MINI Imitations are trying to follow suit.
Look at Scion to see adverse failure.

I would not say the Land Rover is a failure. The current Range Rover was conceived and developed by BMW unfortunately at that point Rover was dragging BMW down and had to be released. Selling Land Rover to Ford allowed BMW to retrieve it's capital back from the two companies.
In the end what Ford got was a highly respected vehicle in the Range Rover to which they made great lengths in ensuring it's greatness.

There was one comment that was made in the past week that shows BMW should not rest on it's laurels and that was that Porsche will be developing future sedan platforms for Audi.
Not only does it show that BMW are out-driving Audi's products. It shows that Audi are aware that their shared platforms are not offering the same level of dynamics as the competition.

It also shows that BMW now has to up it's game to make sure that their products remain the best driving cars in their respective segment.
Audi also announced that in 2011. Their biggest market becomes China.
For BMW China has moved to third ahead of the US and Germany.

Had BMW not expanded and just stuck with the 3,5 and 7 then they would not be the Worlds no1 premium auto manufacturer. Nor would they be independent. For all the passion that previous BMW's had would have been gone in a flash when your 3er rolled in based of a VW Golf chassis. Because it came close to when BMW had problems with Rover that VW were like sharks in the way they smelled BMW's blood in the water. GM were interested too and we all know what happened to them.

At BMW we have a philosophy regarding everything " We do it our way , not their way" Which has made BMW the company and entity it is today because we are original , we are innovative , we are pioneers.

We have our enthusiasts and we have our detractors but without independence we would have nothing... Imagine that 3er with a Golf chassis and thank yourself that the Quandt's common sense and passion overruled receiving billions for the worlds number one premium marque.
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      12-15-2010, 03:42 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
why do I feel that I am the only one who likes the X1?!
I like the X1 for the wife, but more importantly would like an I4 Turbo Diesel. Might even have enough power to pull a small Donzi.
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      12-15-2010, 03:54 PM   #52
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Thank you Scott for putting some obvious facts to the topic

There is a reason why I sold my 2010 VW GTI and bought a 2011 135i, the GTI doesn't even come close to the driving dynamics that the 135i has, even the new R20 that comes out next spring will not even be able to compare to the 135i.
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      12-15-2010, 04:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
why do I feel that I am the only one who likes the X1?!
X1 is great, I see no reason why anyone would buy a 1st gen X3 over the X1 when they were being sold side by side over here in Europe. It's just a slightly elongated E81 for the most part, doesn't ride high at all, since it's based on the E91s platform.

Now if BMW would provide the DPC option on every SAV instead of just the X6, X5M and X6M, I'd actually look at buying one.
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      12-15-2010, 05:50 PM   #54
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Looks like a nice evolution to me. Shame the car is white as the sculpting of the bonnet mentioned in the text is difficult to see.

From the look of it there is I think some more length in the rear and bigger doors which the current hatch can be a bit short on when carrying more elderly or infirm passengers.
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      12-15-2010, 08:49 PM   #55
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I lived in Germany for 3 years and I would say 80% of em drive some kind of wagon/hatch back. I've asked dealers if I can import a hatchback from Germany to the USA and they say the bimmer dealership won't touch them for some reason. Also that The hatchback has been tried here once before and didn't make a big splash. I personally would buy a 1 or 3 series hatchback in a heartbeat. Turbo of course. So that way I can smash on those STI wagon foos with my gangster ass bimmer wagon.
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      12-16-2010, 09:44 AM   #56
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the previous hatch they tried was woefully underpowered. I would seriously consider this new 1 series hatch as my next bmw, though I would want either a diesel or an engine that doesnt require a HPFP replacement constantly.

As to the 335d not being successful, I swear i have more people interested in my current 335d than I did in my 530i, and by a large variety of people! When i went to purchase, i wanted something reliable AND fun, and right now that means either the 128/328 (reliable, but no power), or the 135i/335i (fun but reliability near the bottom of the barrel for any manufacturer, or the 335d (fun and reliable, small price premium).

I dont know how you compare a 335d optioned out price with an m3, mine has almost all the options, but an M3 would cost me significantly more, unless i got one with absolutely NO options.

My friend at work drives a GTI, and I love a luxury performance hatchback, I was thinking if bmw doesnt have an offering I may have to look at the GTI, or the mazdaspeed3, though VW reliability isnt very good, and the bodykit on the mazdaspeed3 in the most recent update looks a little to "young" for me hehe.
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      12-16-2010, 09:51 AM   #57
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I can make BMW CAFE compliant tomorrow.

Bring all of you small cars and diesels over tomorrow.
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      12-17-2010, 11:31 AM   #58
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Diesels are rare un the US because until recently it was too difficult for them to meet the emissions rules for all 50 states. Some of you are ignoring the effect that EPA mileage rules will have on small cars. In a couple of years the 1'er will not be able to pass with a 6.
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      12-29-2010, 03:55 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
(Red Bread getting served)

+10000000000000000000000
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      12-29-2010, 07:59 AM   #60
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LOL, I keep reading in German publications that this entry level compact car will be FWD... I like it. It separates the entry level market from the real luxury brand.
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      12-29-2010, 08:47 AM   #61
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Scott, you are confusing us with facts again!

Anyone who wants an Audi has never had one out of warranty.
Two actually, both of which were much cheaper to operate than the covered warranty costs have already been on the 1er. My M Coupe has been an absolute gem however.
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      12-29-2010, 11:18 AM   #62
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Scott you constantly say that BMW is a bunch of pioneers but why not pioneer your diesels more and your small cars? It will make you more fuel efficient and if done right can be quite successful.


You guys at BMW aren't pioneers, pioneers would take risks and open new markets instead of playing safe and making an suv in every shape and size
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      12-29-2010, 02:23 PM   #63
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i still thank that the hatch is only for girls
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      12-29-2010, 03:25 PM   #64
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Looks like they got rid of this hanging cow-belly profile on the side.
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      12-29-2010, 03:30 PM   #65
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The X6 is king of the road.... Sans the 7er, 6er and M5, nothing matches it in status. Nobody cares about "retro" or "Nostalgia" except for the minority of entry level enthusiasts. The MAJORITY wants a vehicle that says, "you can't touch me" and "I've arrived". We want to drive slow so people in their compacts and people movers can get a good envious look at what they WISH they could have.....Mostly though, so they can hate... I can't wait for the haters

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
[Semi-serious rant]
Ding, exactly the reason I will not buy another BMW. Good job, propeller heads, you've officially lost your way. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" should not become the "Ultimate Fake Off Road Vehicle Just Because We Can't Determine That Americans Are Over SUV's (or SAV's)".

The X range of SAV's is a priority for BMW because they are higly profitable for the company. Each X model has successful sales results , X1 for example was launched in Europe in late 2009 - 1 year later over 100,000 units of X1 has been sold.
X1 is the best selling SAV in Europe. Ahead of the Audi Q5 which was number 1.

X3 despite its reputation sold over 600,000 units over it's lifespan. The new F25 has shown signifcant results in it's first days of launch with customers in Europe ordering a X3 xDrive20d not being able to take delivery until next Spring.

X5 is the standard of a large premium SAV ,
It sets the standard in dynamics , design and quality.
X6 has sold over 120,000 units since launch that is significant as BMW expected sales of only 40,000 units in it's two years from launch.
When you check the sales figures you see each individual X vehicle showing a rise in sales. Demand for BMW X products is greater than ever.

Hence why an X4 Sport Activity Coupe is being developed for the future.
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      12-29-2010, 04:01 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocamryn View Post
We want to drive slow so people in their compacts and people movers can get a good envious look at what they WISH they could have.....Mostly though, so they can hate... I can't wait for the haters
Some of us love to go fast on the backroads and enjoy the driving while nobody is watching.
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