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      12-14-2010, 06:59 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Yogijet View Post
I wonder what the coupe will look like.
Haha... that's easy... just LOOK at Scott's avatar above!!! Me thinks it's a 120i (turbo).
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      12-14-2010, 07:23 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
5er Gran Turismo has actually performed quite well with Worldwide sales of over 20,000 units.

In the US Market the car has a combined unit sales of the same amount of E61 5er Tourings for 3 years and that is just with the Gran Turismo just landing in the later part of 2009.

That is easy to say on paper but when it comes to real life and actual sales the X5 diesel is a success the 335d is not.

When asked why , they dont associate a diesel with BMW , a Premium brand.
BMW have only one diesel converted to accomodate US fuel and will produce a four cylinder diesel in the near future but expect these only on the X3 (six) and X1(four).
BMW are not VW , BMW customers in the US see BMW as a more select premium brand that delivers on the worlds best driving sedans. And are unaware of the vast choice of models available in Europe.
This is why I may never buy a BMW again. The vehicle I want is an f20 123d 5 door, but BMW can't price it to sell. That is likely what this all comes down to, being able to price a diesel hatch to sell. The 335d is a failure because you are in m3 territory with any options you should have on a premium brand. I truly hope the used car market thinks a 335d is a failure and adjusts the price to where it should be. What I like about BMW diesels is that they are powerful and efficient, everyone else's are just efficient. Bottom line if my fuel pump starts to fail I will say good bye BMW, hello gti or 2012 a3
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      12-14-2010, 07:28 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
I remember BMW specifically talking about low sales on the GT not too long ago and they attributed it to the lack of nonV8 engines...really Scott? I get that you are a marketing guy but everybody can see that it is a pointlessly ugly vehicle.

BMW is very into creating niches that are no there, aka the Luxury crossover/SAV in the X3 and X5. Whatever niche the X6 was supposed to fill.

The small near luxury sports car in the states with the 1 series.

The performance sedan in the 1600 and lets not forget the 2002tii.
They took the iconic sporty FWD hatch away from the GTi with the Mini.

BMW has a nack of finding niches that should not be there but the moment that an untapped market in the US comes about, The small RWD hatch, it is ignored by them.

BMW is missing out on a very anxious market share and a niche that they can fill with a car that already exists. Has anybody at BMW thought that maybe small nice hatches have a bad rap in the states because the only one here currently the A3, which is a bad car that is overpriced.

With some slick marketing and a good car BMW could easily take that market share for themselves. But they are too blinded in the 90s notion that Americans are simpletons who equate money with size and who only want big cars with 22"s and a snarling V8. Those times are over. and the sooner automakers like BMW realize that the sooner we can start having legitimately good and small cars sold here.

The 1 series is a car capable of changing american's idea of the small car, just get your head out of the ground and realize that.
You are very wrong. X5 is hugely popular so is X3. X6 is also doing well. The X5 M and X6M are selling like hot cakes in Russia and Middle east.

A 1er hatch would NEVER sell in America. And Americans have short term memory they are buying more SUVs again.

Oh and BMW is concentrating on small cars...they are making huge investments in the mega city vehicle and I have high hopes for new 1er.
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      12-14-2010, 07:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Alchem View Post
You are very wrong. X5 is hugely popular so is X3. X6 is also doing well. The X5 M and X6M are selling like hot cakes in Russia and Middle east.

A 1er hatch would NEVER sell in America. And Americans have short term memory they are buying more SUVs again.
Never said they werent successful. To the contrary I was citing successful BMW niche creations. Thats also why I mentioned the 1600 and the Mini
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      12-14-2010, 07:49 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLOCK M3 View Post
They really need to bring the 1 wagon to the states, with a diesel engine.
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
It would not sell.
Scott, Are you saying that you will not sell 1er FWD Bimmers in the states?
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      12-14-2010, 08:04 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
5er Gran Turismo has actually performed quite well with Worldwide sales of over 20,000 units.

In the US Market the car has a combined unit sales of the same amount of E61 5er Tourings for 3 years and that is just with the Gran Turismo just landing in the later part of 2009.

That is easy to say on paper but when it comes to real life and actual sales the X5 diesel is a success the 335d is not.

When asked why , they dont associate a diesel with BMW , a Premium brand.
BMW have only one diesel converted to accomodate US fuel and will produce a four cylinder diesel in the near future but expect these only on the X3 (six) and X1(four).
BMW are not VW , BMW customers in the US see BMW as a more select premium brand that delivers on the worlds best driving sedans. And are unaware of the vast choice of models available in Europe.
I'm sure you have the numbers somewhere to back up what you're saying, but I suspect that the extra cost and lack of an AWD offering is making the 335d less successful, more so than any premium brand perception issue. (The cost differential between a 328xi and a 335d will buy a LOT of fuel...)

And what of Mercedes-Benz's diesels?
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      12-14-2010, 08:21 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Coni View Post
While I disagree with most everything you said, the bolded part stands out to me the most. What you said is entirely true, truck and suv sales are increasing! People in America equate bigger with better. In America, people would rather get a less optioned base-spec 5 series then a fully optioned 335i, while it is the reverse in Europe. So that equates to people in America would rather have a small SUV than a small hatchback.
+1 and since you can buy the X5 for less than the 5-series and the X3 less than the 3 series, that transition is happening.

I will admit, when I realized that the base price of an X5 was less than the 5, I felt this was backwards, after all the X5 appears more luxurious and is simply more vehicle for the money. This doesn't change the fact that I strongly prefer a car.

I think part of the reason is that people want to be safe, and buying a larger heavier vehicle provides this.
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      12-14-2010, 08:36 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by pyrat View Post
+1 and since you can buy the X5 for less than the 5-series and the X3 less than the 3 series, that transition is happening.

I will admit, when I realized that the base price of an X5 was less than the 5, I felt this was backwards, after all the X5 appears more luxurious and is simply more vehicle for the money. This doesn't change the fact that I strongly prefer a car.

I think part of the reason is that people want to be safe, and buying a larger heavier vehicle provides this.
I'm not sure that larger and heavier necessarily translate into safe though I agree this is the view held by the average car buyer on this side of the world at least. If there is an accident, maybe a lil' bit better than a smaller, lighter vehicle, but if the measure of safety begins with a look at accident avoidance as the primary goal, which must be easier to achieve with a smaller, lighter, better-handling, better-braking vehicle, all other things being equal, then smaller, lighter should be also safer, shouldn't it? If an SUV leaves the road, it's more likely than not going to flip, massively complicating things.
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      12-14-2010, 08:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Haha... that's easy... just LOOK at Scott's avatar above!!! Me thinks it's a 120i (turbo).
Lordie, wow. Anyway, the comfort is that a BMW is so much more than how it looks. It's always been all about the drive; at least for me.
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      12-14-2010, 08:58 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JB135MDCT View Post
My fears have come true. It looks like the Fer 1ers are takeing the shape of a 3er. I don' t like the rounded out hood like the current 3er has. The side/door handel setup is ok. E82 1er was unique with classic edges and suttle curves, now it's taking the shape of a dime a dozen space ship.
The hood is the current 1er's worst design cue besides the pig belly line. Thank god they're adding some shape to it. It was way too boring.
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      12-14-2010, 09:29 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogijet View Post
I'm not sure that larger and heavier necessarily translate into safe though I agree this is the view held by the average car buyer on this side of the world at least. If there is an accident, maybe a lil' bit better than a smaller, lighter vehicle, but if the measure of safety begins with a look at accident avoidance as the primary goal, which must be easier to achieve with a smaller, lighter, better-handling, better-braking vehicle, all other things being equal, then smaller, lighter should be also safer, shouldn't it? If an SUV leaves the road, it's more likely than not going to flip, massively complicating things.
QFT.
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      12-14-2010, 09:59 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis View Post
The hood is the current 1er's worst design cue besides the pig belly line. Thank god they're adding some shape to it. It was way too boring.
I think you are in the wrong forum. You confuse the pot belly line of a 1er with the over sized pig of the 3er.
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      12-14-2010, 11:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis View Post
The hood is the current 1er's worst design cue besides the pig belly line. Thank god they're adding some shape to it. It was way too boring.
Lol how can you say that the 1ers sheet metal is boring? How can you have more shape than with flame surfacing?
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      12-15-2010, 04:14 AM   #36
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... the car actually looks to have a headlight cutout shape that roughly approximates the 5-Series GT, however with some very unique elements, namely the inner high beam lights are offset and elevated from the regular headlamps that should give the car an extremely menacing front end.
I don't think the inner elevated light is high beam! I think these are front indicators (pretty much the same setup as the MkVI Golf). And do I spot wing mirror integrated side indicators?
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      12-15-2010, 04:17 AM   #37
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I think it will look good overall.

But one thing I really don't like on most of the new BMW models is the gap which separates the bonnet from the kidneys. This huge horizontal gap is drawing too much attention - I think it looks ugly and messes up the front view.

IMO they should do it like they did on the E90 or the new X3 (the green lines in the image below).

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      12-15-2010, 06:21 AM   #38
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Rear lights and hatch look a bit too mk6 Golf to me. But I will wait for better pics before comparing.
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      12-15-2010, 08:19 AM   #39
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Hey, at least they upgraded the corona rings to the LEDs as seen on the more recent BMWs. Or, at least it looks like they did!
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      12-15-2010, 08:36 AM   #40
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I remember BMW specifically talking about low sales on the GT not too long ago and they attributed it to the lack of nonV8 engines...really Scott? I get that you are a marketing guy but everybody can see that it is a pointlessly ugly vehicle.
What was ignored by the journalists was the fact that this applied to the US Market and only the US. What they failed to mention was actually wrongly perceived as gospel for every market the car is available in.
What I see the GT as is a very luxurious car that defines it's own segment.
You will never find a better mix of luxury and refinement in this class.

We investigate options for every market, and even with the E87 back in 2004 the US rejected the BMW premium Sporthatch.
The Coupe and Convertible is more to their liking as Premium Compact models.
Which embody the sporting aspects of the 1er and it's link to the legacy of the 2002. The BMW X1 will fullfill the need for the 1er Sporthatch in the US Market.
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      12-15-2010, 09:48 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
What was ignored by the journalists was the fact that this applied to the US Market and only the US. What they failed to mention was actually wrongly perceived as gospel for every market the car is available in.
What I see the GT as is a very luxurious car that defines it's own segment.
You will never find a better mix of luxury and refinement in this class.

We investigate options for every market, and even with the E87 back in 2004 the US rejected the BMW premium Sporthatch.
The Coupe and Convertible is more to their liking as Premium Compact models.
Which embody the sporting aspects of the 1er and it's link to the legacy of the 2002. The BMW X1 will fullfill the need for the 1er Sporthatch in the US Market.


[Semi-serious rant]
Ding, exactly the reason I will not buy another BMW. Good job, propeller heads, you've officially lost your way. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" should not become the "Ultimate Fake Off Road Vehicle Just Because We Can't Determine That Americans Are Over SUV's (or SAV's)".

Put it in your brown eye, I'll buy an Audi A3 or Golf TDI, even though I've already owned and hated Audii before. This constant misstep towards trucks, electric steering, lack of limited slip diffs and under offering of diesels and hatches in the US market is ridiculous.

If BMW wants to see how to run an actual car company, simply look at what VW has done with their investments; they've saved Lamborghini, made Bentley mildly interesting, focused Audi and acquired Porsche. The Quandt's have done what? Made a barge of Rolls Royce, failed with Land Rover and lost momentum with Mini. Good work. More sport utes and pussified cars please. Oh, wait, no. F-off.

[/Semi-serious rant]
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      12-15-2010, 10:11 AM   #42
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      12-15-2010, 11:25 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB135MDCT View Post
I think you are in the wrong forum. You confuse the pot belly line of a 1er with the over sized pig of the 3er.
Nope, I'm here to express my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
Lol how can you say that the 1ers sheet metal is boring? How can you have more shape than with flame surfacing?
Just the hood. The rest of the car is fine, but the hood only has two faintly visible lines that look out of place on a car that has extreme contours everywhere else.
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      12-15-2010, 12:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
[Semi-serious rant]
Ding, exactly the reason I will not buy another BMW. Good job, propeller heads, you've officially lost your way. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" should not become the "Ultimate Fake Off Road Vehicle Just Because We Can't Determine That Americans Are Over SUV's (or SAV's)".

Put it in your brown eye, I'll buy an Audi A3 or Golf TDI, even though I've already owned and hated Audii before. This constant misstep towards trucks, electric steering, lack of limited slip diffs and under offering of diesels and hatches in the US market is ridiculous.

If BMW wants to see how to run an actual car company, simply look at what VW has done with their investments; they've saved Lamborghini, made Bentley mildly interesting, focused Audi and acquired Porsche. The Quandt's have done what? Made a barge of Rolls Royce, failed with Land Rover and lost momentum with Mini. Good work. More sport utes and pussified cars please. Oh, wait, no. F-off.

[/Semi-serious rant]
You talk about the Ultimate Driving Machine, then go on to say you'd buy an A3? What a joke.
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