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      09-27-2010, 12:02 PM   #23
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I like the exterior comparison with that e87
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      09-27-2010, 12:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
If this is the 'new' interior, then it's a step backwards to anything considered "progression". The dash looks like a 90's VW, wait, no not even that interesting.

If the LCD screen is standard the I can accept the minimalist design as the screen will show everything a driver needs. But, if that's a $2400 optional NAV in order to get some read out, then it's a FAIL.

For the kind of money we current 1 owners are spending, BMW can move the content up and upmarket. Looking like a much lower costing VW doesn't make me feel good about spending $40K+. I want to see and experience something in the cabin where we spend all of our time while driving.
???

Really, I can't think of a reason to want a touch screen. Give me a reasonable number of buttons to control driving the car (you can leave them off the wheel too) and I'll sort out modern ways to deal with Nav, audio and other things that might be touch screen with my phone.

My two year old phone felt antiquated, and since car electronics are well behind that, why get locked into some crusty, old technology right from the start? I'd like my car to be a car, maybe I'm weird. I'd certainly take an LSD long before any amount of supposed "technology".

Personally, the materials in the shots above look much nicer than what's in the current 1er or 3er, and while not on par with Audi/VW, at least a step up from recent BMW materials.
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      09-27-2010, 09:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
???

Really, I can't think of a reason to want a touch screen. Give me a reasonable number of buttons to control driving the car (you can leave them off the wheel too) and I'll sort out modern ways to deal with Nav, audio and other things that might be touch screen with my phone.

My two year old phone felt antiquated, and since car electronics are well behind that, why get locked into some crusty, old technology right from the start? I'd like my car to be a car, maybe I'm weird. I'd certainly take an LSD long before any amount of supposed "technology".

Personally, the materials in the shots above look much nicer than what's in the current 1er or 3er, and while not on par with Audi/VW, at least a step up from recent BMW materials.
Touch screen?
No, I wouldn't want a touch screen either, that's why I didn't say that.
Audi doesn't use a touch screen. The base system is like BMW's iDrive. It's a joy stick type knob with a few buttons around it to get to certain things directly.

I welcome the modern era. Some people get confused with 1 joystick knob to control a number of things. But, once you go through it a few times it becomes second nature and easy to use.

Technology advances and quickly, so people have to move with it or get left behind.

People who don't like too much technology also complain of having to many buttons to use certain components like Radio, HVAC, but then, when given a single knob to control more things they complain that it's too confusing. I think most people are just technologically challenged no matter what solution is offered.

I like steering wheel controls. It's nice not to have to move your hands off the wheel just to change a station, answer the phone, or turn the volume up and down. A central screen would also also a better visual interface for user settings. Most cars in this price class have this, so it's time BMW gave it's customers something worthy of the money they ask.
They could take all the buttons away and just give me one nice graphical user interface with a control knob. Nice and clean, no clutter on the dash.
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      09-28-2010, 09:26 AM   #26
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I get where you're coming from regarding button overkill, ala Porsche's recent designs, but the 1er is meant to be a reasonably plain car, if you want all the modern fluff, why not get a 3er? I'd like to see more differentiation between the 1 and 3, and keeping unnecessary clutter out of the car, even if it means dropping the optional nav and idrive seems like a good start. I do think that the pics show better quality materials than our 1ers, so that seems like a win, at least until we know what the ergonomics are like.

I can touch the first three radio presets and the search button of my radio while still holding the steering wheel in the M Coupe, I can even shift to first or third with a finger still on the wheel. Sometimes good design just beats laziness. I also don't use my phone in the car, so that solves that problem too.
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      09-29-2010, 08:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I get where you're coming from regarding button overkill, ala Porsche's recent designs, but the 1er is meant to be a reasonably plain car, if you want all the modern fluff, why not get a 3er? I'd like to see more differentiation between the 1 and 3, and keeping unnecessary clutter out of the car, even if it means dropping the optional nav and idrive seems like a good start. I do think that the pics show better quality materials than our 1ers, so that seems like a win, at least until we know what the ergonomics are like.

I can touch the first three radio presets and the search button of my radio while still holding the steering wheel in the M Coupe, I can even shift to first or third with a finger still on the wheel. Sometimes good design just beats laziness. I also don't use my phone in the car, so that solves that problem too.
Now you're sounding like the 3 guys with "why not just get a 3, a REAL BMW."
You know why we 1 drivers got the 1.

The 3 was on my short list. I've had one before and I really like them.
In 09 I didn't think it look good. It looks much better now with the slight redesign.
The 1 had a cool look, and it offered a performance package for a great price compared to an equivalent optioned 3.
The 1 was a great option compared to a 3, so that's why I got it.

I've never understood the whole strip down thing in an BMW.
People complain about cars like the amazing new Mustang GT.
You can get that one with virtually nothing, so why not get the GT if you want raw performance with less "luxury" items?

A BMW, modern BMW anyway, offers, or should offer, a certain level of technology. It's not like the 1 is a low cost automobile.
There's nothing wrong with putting in a centrally located screen with a simple control interface. It keeps the dash very clean looking, while offering what people expect in a $40k+ automobile.

I certainly don't want crank windows and manual seats.
The 1 is already plain enough inside. Having a screen to adjust things isn't overkill nor does it have to be implemented with flashing lights.
It can be done simply and look minimal.
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      09-30-2010, 08:57 AM   #28
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Fine, we can agree to disagree. I suppose the Boxster Spyder has no appeal to you, what with a lack of radio and a $60k price tag.

I get what you're saying about technology, I guess I'd just prefer that BMW place it in the actual mechanicals of the car, and passes on gimmickry inside, or at least gets the basics right (cough, LSD, cough) before making fluff standard. I'm all for the option of a touch screen, especially one that's better integrated than it is on our 1ers, and stuff like BT, iPod connections and the new B&O stereo stuff, but one of the great things BMW has offered even US buyers, has been the choice to pick just how much of that stuff you want, not forcing it on us like Audi, Acura and many other do in an attempt to provide "value". Not everyone values those things, and the opportunity to leave them out is something I welcome.

Finally, decontented cars don't drive any differently than those with all the options, and are usually lighter too. A 3er with every option, for all intents and purposes, drives just like one with no options. I've personally considered an M3 sedan with the cloth seats, no sunroof, all three pedals and a non metallic color. You can spend the same money fairly easily on a 335i sedan, and I'm sure the majority of buyers would prefer the heavily contented 335i, but I like that BMW makes both available. Why are choices bad? If it's only because it creates an artificially low base price for buyers who want lots of options, or even that the average car on the lot is no where near the base price, I'm not sure that bothers the average buyer.

Last edited by Red Bread; 09-30-2010 at 09:02 AM..
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      09-30-2010, 08:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Fine, we can agree to disagree. I suppose the Boxster Spyder has no appeal to you, what with a lack of radio and a $60k price tag.

I get what you're saying about technology, I guess I'd just prefer that BMW place it in the actual mechanicals of the car, and passes on gimmickry inside, or at least gets the basics right (cough, LSD, cough) before making fluff standard. I'm all for the option of a touch screen, especially one that's better integrated than it is on our 1ers, and stuff like BT, iPod connections and the new B&O stereo stuff, but one of the great things BMW has offered even US buyers, has been the choice to pick just how much of that stuff you want, not forcing it on us like Audi, Acura and many other do in an attempt to provide "value". Not everyone values those things, and the opportunity to leave them out is something I welcome.

Finally, decontented cars don't drive any differently than those with all the options, and are usually lighter too. A 3er with every option, for all intents and purposes, drives just like one with no options. I've personally considered an M3 sedan with the cloth seats, no sunroof, all three pedals and a non metallic color. You can spend the same money fairly easily on a 335i sedan, and I'm sure the majority of buyers would prefer the heavily contented 335i, but I like that BMW makes both available. Why are choices bad? If it's only because it creates an artificially low base price for buyers who want lots of options, or even that the average car on the lot is no where near the base price, I'm not sure that bothers the average buyer.
Yes, of course we can agree to disagree, which I think we are doing.

I do like the Boxster S. It's very appealing if I had $60K to spend on a car.
But, it does come with an audio system, 7 total speakers including a sub-woofer too.
And, it has partial powered seats, leather, power windows, power locks, power mirrors, heated mirrors too, all standard.
Just the base Boxster S would is a very appealing package.
Porsche however goes CRAZY with all the options you can get.

But, I didn't say there is anything wrong with choices.
And there is nothing wrong with adding value either, by putting in standard content that keeps an automobile price competitive as well as appealing for it's price point.

Putting in a control screen shouldn't add weight. It would probably come as a wash when you consider all the other buttons you could remove.
Look at the HVAC and stereo already in there, seat heater buttons.
It would just combine all those things in one unit, clean and uncluttered.

The choice and option for NAV could still be there.
Adding a standard item like what I'm suggesting, keeps the cost low due to economy of scale. It adds to the appeal for most buyers in a car that already costs quite a bit.

It sounds to me that you would like a "club racer" type 1, that would forgo weighty things like power seats, owr windows, sunroof, audio system, sound damping, etc..., in return for a lighter overall package, with an LSD added or course.
That would be a cool version. It probably wouldn't appeal to a large number of people, but it would be a cool option/choice for those who value the purity of BMW mechanicals.
This makes more sense than de-contenting the standard model.
It should also be lower in cost.

Heck, even Hyundai did that for a more driver focused version of their Genisis coupe. Although they left a lot of content still in there, that probably could have and should have come out, and even lowered the cost more.
It comes as an R-Spec 2.0 4cy turbo, and R-Spec 3.8 V6. They added a track tuned sport suspension, Brembo brakes, LSD, adjustable camber bolts too.
Tuners seem to like the turbo for it's obvious tuning potential over the heavier NA V6.

Last edited by RPM90; 09-30-2010 at 09:10 PM..
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      10-01-2010, 12:57 PM   #30
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I meant the Boxster Spyder, the top 987 offering, which has a partial roof, cloth seats and no stereo. Much more of a weekend car, admittingly 180 degrees from BMW's normal focus.
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      10-01-2010, 09:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
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I meant the Boxster Spyder, the top 987 offering, which has a partial roof, cloth seats and no stereo. Much more of a weekend car, admittingly 180 degrees from BMW's normal focus.
I had to look it up cause I didn't know of that model.

No, not for me.
It's more of a track car. For weekend drives I'd take the regular Boxster S.
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      10-02-2010, 07:10 PM   #32
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Then it shouldn't surprise you that I'd prefer the Spyder.
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      10-03-2010, 05:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Then it shouldn't surprise you that I'd prefer the Spyder.

I understand it's appeal. But, it's still a niche market for that kind of thing.

Porsche also seems to think that for the greater market de-contenting isn't a great idea. So, they made that lighter model in limited production for those who want that sort of thing.

That's why I said that if BMW thinks there is a market for a 1 series like that, it would be cool, but the regular 1 shouldn't be like that.

For me, I prefer having the technology, and some cooler better integration would be sweet.
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