BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > Chiptuning a 116i
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-01-2013, 01:57 PM   #89
corail
New Member
corail's Avatar
2
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: F20 116i Sportline Deep Sea Bl
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: İzmir / Turkey

iTrader: (0)

Here comes another question;
Power boxes manupilate the signals coming from original Ecu of the car?
But what about infos on board computer? Indicate real infos or stock ecu infos?
For example consumption infos?
__________________
F20 116i Sportline Deep Sea Edition
Appreciate 0
      03-01-2013, 02:29 PM   #90
ovekvam
Brigadier General
Norway
203
Rep
3,150
Posts

Drives: F20 LCI 118i M-Sport B38
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

iTrader: (0)

The consumption will still be correct. It is based on RPM, fuel pressure and injector opening times. The power box can not manipulate these values.
Appreciate 0
      03-18-2013, 01:25 PM   #91
Pedro Terruggi
New Member
Brazil
4
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: F20 118i 8AT
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: São Paulo

iTrader: (0)

Any updates on reliable and tested chip tunnings for the 166i yet?

I'm specially interested in one that could be unistalled before going to the dealer and are undetectable after it because I don't want to void my warranty since there are no professional tuners in Brazil that cover the cars warranty.
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2013, 09:29 AM   #92
Kamazzi
New Member
0
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: F20 116i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PL

iTrader: (0)

I did some tests with the Chiptronic unit.
I have two 116i units. Production January 2012 and August 2012.
I do have some figures on hand and running two identical cars allowed me to come to some conclusions after some tuning of the boxes.

Firstly, at this point in time, the box is still the only way to go. No ECU remap is possible at this point in time.
Secondly, one of the biggest differences between the 116i and the 118i is the exhaust. The 116i has a very obstructive 2" pipe which limits the power substantially and will in fact prevent and major improvement in power regardless of the power box installed. This is clear above 4200 revs where the power actually can drop because of the restrictive exhaust.
Schnitzer claims over 200 HP for both cars yet I haven't seen a third-party dynotune graph which will come even close to this claimed figure. Only photoshop pictures of the graphs are available on the website which have no real data regarding the measurement.

At this point in time I achieved 155HP and 290 NM with the standard exhaust and only the module in place.
The next mod will be the exhaust and only then we'll be able to see how prone to modifications these little engines really are.
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2013, 12:31 PM   #93
fraxbe
New Member
fraxbe's Avatar
Belgium
1
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: F20 116i Sport
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Brussels

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamazzi View Post
Secondly, one of the biggest differences between the 116i and the 118i is the exhaust. The 116i has a very obstructive 2" pipe which limits the power substantially and will in fact prevent and major improvement in power regardless of the power box installed.
Mmmhh, good to know that...
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2013, 01:04 PM   #94
ovekvam
Brigadier General
Norway
203
Rep
3,150
Posts

Drives: F20 LCI 118i M-Sport B38
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamazzi View Post
At this point in time I achieved 155HP and 290 NM with the standard exhaust and only the module in place.
Is that on the flywheel, hubs or rear tires?

Mine had 139 hp on the rear hubs with no modifications, running comfort mode and 95 octane.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2013, 03:46 AM   #95
Kamazzi
New Member
0
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: F20 116i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Is that on the flywheel, hubs or rear tires?

Mine had 139 hp on the rear hubs with no modifications, running comfort mode and 95 octane.
I don't know what is a reading "on the hubs"...???
Familiar with power at the flywheel and power at the wheels.
This measurement done on a rolling road, reading converted to flywheel.
Comfort mode, traction off (can only be done in comfort mode), 95 octane.
The only difference... 155 HP at 4200 revs... almost like a diesel
After that a drop caused by the obstructive exhaust.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2013, 08:40 AM   #96
ovekvam
Brigadier General
Norway
203
Rep
3,150
Posts

Drives: F20 LCI 118i M-Sport B38
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bryne, Norway

iTrader: (0)

So what was the power reading on the wheels?

My reading was done directly on the rear hubs with Dynapacks, with the wheels off. That takes rolling resistance out of the picture.
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2013, 03:29 PM   #97
DriverZ
New Member
2
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 116i ACS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamazzi

The only difference... 155 HP at 4200 revs... almost like a diesel
After that a drop caused by the obstructive exhaust.
I dont really mean to annoy you...but how do you know this is an effect of the "obstructive" exhaust and not the "non-such-effective" tune?
Appreciate 0
      05-21-2013, 07:06 PM   #98
Kamazzi
New Member
0
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: F20 116i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PL

iTrader: (0)

To keep a long story short.... Firstly, one of the ways to detune the 116 and the 114 is to install an exhaust which is smaller in diameter then the bigger 118 brother.
2" exhaust from cat-back is an effective way to detune the car. This can be seen even on the standard engine dyno graph.
Secondly, Chiptronic is one of those companies which produces the modules for many other tuners for many years now....Other tuners buy the modules with programmes from Chiptronic and just rebrand them
Doubt it whether they would do a "non-such-effective" tune especially that the piggy-back tuning method is based on boosting the standard signal instead of a totaly new timing, ignition and fuel map.
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2013, 11:40 AM   #99
DriverZ
New Member
2
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 116i ACS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamazzi
To keep a long story short.... Firstly, one of the ways to detune the 116 and the 114 is to install an exhaust which is smaller in diameter then the bigger 118 brother.
2" exhaust from cat-back is an effective way to detune the car. This can be seen even on the standard engine dyno graph.
Secondly, Chiptronic is one of those companies which produces the modules for many other tuners for many years now....Other tuners buy the modules with programmes from Chiptronic and just rebrand them
Doubt it whether they would do a "non-such-effective" tune especially that the piggy-back tuning method is based on boosting the standard signal instead of a totaly new timing, ignition and fuel map.
Thanks for your input Kamazzi,

I'm aware that the tunning market works like this...and to be honnest with you I was never a "fan" of the big known guys. I also know that big guys are used to adapt tunning platforms comming from smaller tunners. This is the case on piggybacks but reflash tunes as well...

Regardless the true origin of a tunning platform...the big names had always stand for "reliability" and "cosistency" when it comes to performance and tunning specs.

When ACS announces certain performance gains for a certain model , seems unlikely that data is manipulated or mistaken. Especialy when it comes for the likes of ACS that they hold a HUGE brand name ,selling millions of euros in not only tunes but other products too its seems unlikely to me that they ruin/risk their name for the 116i tune specs ,which is rather inexistent to the most of the markets.

I could accept your claim on the restrictive exhaust , but then again seems unlikely to me that ACS would bother tweaking 116 data to risk their reputation as long as their "fish n chips" is the high performance engines.
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2013, 11:52 AM   #100
logiclee
Private First Class
12
Rep
188
Posts

Drives: BMW 116i
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Notts, UK

iTrader: (0)

The map is quite different between the 116i and 118i, the 116i's boost level is slightly lower and drops of at higher revs.
There is also a software 130mph limiter on the 116i to give it a 10mph gap to the 118i.

AC's software sets the boost pressure the same on their 116i and 118i boxes and the difference is 200bhp v 204bhp. So it hardly seems the small exhaust section has a massive effect.

A 10mm exhaust diameter difference on a 1.6 turbo charged engine is not going to be a 50bhp difference.

Cheers
Lee

Last edited by logiclee; 05-22-2013 at 12:03 PM..
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2013, 12:04 PM   #101
DriverZ
New Member
2
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 116i ACS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclee
The map is quite different between the 116i and 118i, the 116i's boost level is slightly lower and drops of at higher revs.
There is also a software 130mph limiter on the 116i to give it a 10mph gap to the 118i.

AC's software sets the boost pressure the same on their 116i and 118i boxes and the difference is 200bhp v 204bhp. So it hardly seems the small exhaust section has a massive effect.

Cheers
Lee
I was missinformed about it , as i thought a tuned 116i would be identical to a tuned 118i. I found out this is not the case ,pretty late im afraid. I regret that I've ordered an 116i instead of 118i as the extra cost wouldn't be an issue.

But the debate here is about a completely different thing... The comments of my friend above are about the accurancy of the numbers. Kamazzi comments that the announced 200hp wouldnt be achievable on an 116i and ACS is making false claims.
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2013, 07:00 PM   #102
Kamazzi
New Member
0
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: F20 116i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DriverZ View Post
Kamazzi comments that the announced 200hp wouldnt be achievable on an 116i and ACS is making false claims.
That's not what I said... Please comprehend what I wrote correctly

I said that the 116i has a very obstructive 2" pipe which limits the power substantially and will in fact prevent any major improvement in power regardless of the power box installed (...) Schnitzer claims over 200HP but yet I haven't seen a third-party dynotune graph which will come even close to this claimed figure. Only photoshop pictures of the graphs are available on the website which have no real data regarding the measurement.

As you can clearly see, that differs to what you claim I said Nowhere did I say that 200 HP wouldn't be achievable in an 116i and nowhere did I say that ACS is making false claims. Quite the contrary. I want to believe that ACS did it, and I would love to see the performance graphs of the tuned cars.

Moreover, Schnitzer claims 0-100 time in 8.1 secs for the tuned 116i and 7,1 secs for the tuned 118i. That is a second difference for cars with power difference which is negligible. That's a big difference....

And then the improvement: the 116i improves from 136 HP to 204 HP, and the acceleration 0-100 improves from 8,5 to 8,1. That's an improvement of 0,4 seconds. Almost 70 HP improvement in power but in time that translates to 0,4 seconds... makes you think, doesn't it?

Who has done the conversion by Schnitzer and dynoed the car before and after?
Has anybody seen the real graph from a dyno before and after the conversion?

Please show me the facts and let me part with my cash at my local ACS dealer
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2013, 05:24 AM   #103
DriverZ
New Member
2
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 116i ACS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamazzi View Post
That's not what I said... Please comprehend what I wrote correctly

I said that the 116i has a very obstructive 2" pipe which limits the power substantially and will in fact prevent any major improvement in power regardless of the power box installed (...) Schnitzer claims over 200HP but yet I haven't seen a third-party dynotune graph which will come even close to this claimed figure. Only photoshop pictures of the graphs are available on the website which have no real data regarding the measurement.
I wont debate on what you said or not...we are not arguing or anything , no worries ,mate.
To my understanding, statements like the above (in bold letters) implying clearly that ACS claims are unrealiable. Then again it could be my mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamazzi View Post
Moreover, Schnitzer claims 0-100 time in 8.1 secs for the tuned 116i and 7,1 secs for the tuned 118i. That is a second difference for cars with power difference which is negligible. That's a big difference....

And then the improvement: the 116i improves from 136 HP to 204 HP, and the acceleration 0-100 improves from 8,5 to 8,1. That's an improvement of 0,4 seconds. Almost 70 HP improvement in power but in time that translates to 0,4 seconds... makes you think, doesn't it?
Now we are talking...

Firstly, lets clarify that the 204Hp number is the spotaneous peak horsepower at some given RPM of the engine. This number alone , is not enough to give you an indication of how the car performs in comparisson to the 210Hp upgrade of 118i nor either justify if the 0.4sec improvement on 0-100 makes sense or not. The question is how this extra torque/power is applied through the revs range & gears individualy.

As we are not talking about a complete engine remapping (reflash) but a tunning box which is obviously using the factory performance patern , its reasonable that the improvent below 80mph is only 0.5sec as the 116i's mapping is less agressive (than 118i) in that range. So its not the restrictive exhaust but the limitations comes from the OEM mapping as the tunning box can only enchance but not completely revise the performance on given RPM range (as a reflash would do).

Also , the boost mapping on the ACS is different for each different gear. I dont know if this has to do with torque limitations comming from ECU , but full boost is not applicable in every gear (ie 1st ,2nd) hence the 0.4 "only" improvement on accelaration to 80mph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamazzi View Post
Please show me the facts and let me part with my cash at my local ACS dealer
I'm not trying to convince you for anything. I'm not a fanboy of either of tunners myself. I just find it difficult to accept that one of the "legitimate" tunners would ever communicate false performance data ...they have too much to lose if they do that.
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2013, 06:27 AM   #104
Fanis
Lieutenant
Fanis's Avatar
Greece
31
Rep
485
Posts

Drives: 116i (F20) Auto
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Athens, Greece

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
DriverZ is quite right. Here is the official ACS UK answer regarding the 116i tuning and performance figures.

http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=20
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC Schnitzer UK View Post
The power delivery of the tuned motors are different due to how far you can adjust some of the parameters from standard using AC Schnitzer's tuning system.

Details of both are here, but as I've said before - you don't buy a 116 to go drag racing so don't get obsessed about 0-60 times. In reality the tuned 116 pulls hard all through the rev range. I've been in one with AC Schnitzer test driver Manfred Wollgarten behind the wheel and I can tell you it was pretty impressive for a 1.6 turbo!
And here is the answer regarding the use of fuel less than 98RON:
http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=29
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC Schnitzer UK View Post
You must use 98 octane and above with this upgrade.
__________________
2011- : BMW 116i (F20)
2009-11: BMW Z4 2.5si (E85)
2007-09: Mini Cooper S (R56)
2005-07: BMW 325ti (E46)
2004-05: BMW 318i (E36)
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2013, 09:53 AM   #105
rpagianotto
Private First Class
83
Rep
130
Posts

Drives: F22 m235i 8AT
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: São Paulo

iTrader: (0)

Even though I agree that peak horsepower does nothing to show how an engine actually behaves and performs, I'm not sure how much I trust these tuning boxes anyway.

I mean, I would really like to see actual dyno readings from before and after the installation, because the engines on the 1 series are so underrated from factory.

Pretty much all of the tuning boxes I've seen for the 118i promise an upgrade to around 200hp, even the most reputable ones. The thing is, I just took my car to a dyno this past weekend and I got 178whp, which would translate to around 206-211hp on the crank.

At the same time, a lot of people are reporting 135-140whp for the 116i, which would translate to around 160-165 atual hp, factory default.

I'm not saying that there is no performance to be gained from these ECU piggybacks, but considering that my car already outputs more than the promised figures gains, It's really hard to say what you're actually getting from them.

I might go for a custom ECU reflash in the near future (looking into options right now) because they seem a bit more reliable to me. That's my 2c in any case.
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2013, 10:52 AM   #106
DriverZ
New Member
2
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 116i ACS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GR

iTrader: (0)

A) there is no other tuner claiming 200ish power levels for 116i
B) there will be no reflash options for quite some time as this new DME unit cant be tuned
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2013, 11:30 AM   #107
Kamazzi
New Member
0
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: F20 116i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PL

iTrader: (0)

Gentlemen, that's a lot of theory going on here and a lot of statements which may satisfy some owners and some not.

I'll ask again: has anybody done a box by Schnitzer? Can anybody show a dyno graph with results? Has anybody measured among others the 0-100 times? Or are we just talking about theory?
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2013, 12:38 PM   #108
DriverZ
New Member
2
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 116i ACS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamazzi
Gentlemen, that's a lot of theory going on here and a lot of statements which may satisfy some owners and some not.

I'll ask again: has anybody done a box by Schnitzer? Can anybody show a dyno graph with results? Has anybody measured among others the 0-100 times? Or are we just talking about theory?
Well...thats the thing mate. No one has at the moment so we try to explain facts based on clues.
Its the same way as the theory of the obstructing exhaust...

Seems like someone has to pay the price
Appreciate 0
      05-23-2013, 05:42 PM   #109
Kamazzi
New Member
0
Rep
26
Posts

Drives: F20 116i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: PL

iTrader: (0)

Well, the difference is that I have done the mod, have the graphs and paid the price
This one is the best one so far....




Appreciate 0
      05-24-2013, 01:18 AM   #110
DriverZ
New Member
2
Rep
14
Posts

Drives: 116i ACS
Join Date: May 2013
Location: GR

iTrader: (0)

No doubt on your claimed figures.
Just show me graphs proving the obstructive exhaust theory
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:44 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST