[Hornady]

Originally Posted by TMP

Having driven the A45 I was surprised by it not feeling faster than the M135i (based on this review).

Will post up a comparison later...

Having seen the price of the AMG i have to laugh at Merc.

They think a 4 pot with a turbo is worth 38k and even more for the CLA.

LOL good luck.

With options the CLA is nearly as expensive as an M3 Saloon list price.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Hornady

Having seen the price of the AMG i have to laugh at Merc.

They think a 4 pot with a turbo is worth 38k and even more for the CLA.

LOL good luck.

With options the CLA is nearly as expensive as an M3 Saloon list price.

In Belgium, the TCO of the M135i and A45 are the same seen the smaller and more frugal engine of the Merc. You pay considerably more, but you have to pay substantially less on recurrent taxes. This would indicate that the Merc will have a higher trade in value later also. So higher pricing is at least where I live, no argument against the Merc.

[Hornady]

Originally Posted by KoenG

In Belgium, the TCO of the M135i and A45 are the same seen the smaller and more frugal engine of the Merc. You pay considerably more, but you have to pay substantially less on recurrent taxes. This would indicate that the Merc will have a higher trade in value later also. So higher pricing is at least where I live, no argument against the Merc.

I dont know what TCO is but it sounds stupid if it makes a 31k car the same price as a 38k car.

Merc are dreaming if they think a hot hatch is worth 38k starting. It also doesnt even review as well as the S3 or M135i for driving fun and engagement. All it has over the BMW and Audi is a few tenths of a second to 62 which when below 5 in general is totally useless.

Also the new TTS will likely debut at 38k circa and who wants a hatchback over a TTS?

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Hornady

Also the new TTS will likely debut at 38k circa and who wants a hatchback over a TTS?

I do.

[mdt]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

I do.

Haha, me too.

[Hornady]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

I do.

Seems your in the market for neither car.

[westphone]

Looks ok the A45 AMG. For me it will take more than that to drag me away from pure RWD and manual....

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Hornady

Seems your in the market for neither car.

No, I already have the hatchback, and it has RWD. I am rather confused about what to buy next time, as BMW indicates that the F20/21 is the last RWD hatchback.

[Hornady]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

No, I already have the hatchback, and it has RWD. I am rather confused about what to buy next time, as BMW indicates that the F20/21 is the last RWD hatchback.

Audi and Merc seem to be offering 4wd options now.

We are 5-6 years away from F21 being replaced.

Seems the hot hatch market is heating up an BMW wont be able to compete with Audi and Merc with a FWD or AWD model since BMW is ugly compared to Merc and Audi so they need to maintain the driving dynamics because thats al they have tbh.

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Hornady

Audi and Merc seem to be offering 4wd options now.

We are 5-6 years away from F21 being replaced.

Seems the hot hatch marker is heating up an BMW wont be able to compete with Audi and Merc with a FWD or AWD model since BMW is ugly compared to Merc and Audi so they need to maintain the driving dynamics because thats al they have tbh.

But I want RWD, not AWD.
And the BMW being ugly is just a matter of taste. I personally think it looks better than both the Audi and the Mercedes. The Alfa Romeo is nice, though.

[Hornady]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

But I want RWD, not AWD.
And the BMW being ugly is just a matter of taste. I personally think it looks better than both the Audi and the Mercedes. The Alfa Romeo is nice, though.

the 1er isnt taste its pretty much universal in its ugly headlights.

That said it more than makes up for it in driving dynamics or so i hear.

BMW would be risking alot to move to FWD or AWD given that Audi and Merc can do those better or as good as BMW. BMW doesnt have the interior of the Audi either.

i doubt BMW will move out of RWD for their 1 series since these new competitors are now on the scene.

[johnnydad]

Originally Posted by Hornady

the 1er isnt taste its pretty much universal in its ugly headlights.

That said it more than makes up for it in driving dynamics or so i hear.

BMW would be risking alot to move to FWD or AWD given that Audi and Merc can do those better or as good as BMW. BMW doesnt have the interior of the Audi either.

i doubt BMW will move out of RWD for their 1 series since these new competitors are now on the scene.

You are completely wrong. The F20 looks really good, its headlights and nose are a work of art, it has a fantastic stance, looks purposeful and unique.

Seems your taste is overly-conservative and stuck in the 90's.

This is just my opinion of course, so don't be offended

[Alpine*]

Originally Posted by johnnydad

You are completely wrong. The F20 looks really good, its headlights and nose are a work of art, it has a fantastic stance, looks purposeful and unique.

Seems your taste is overly-conservative and stuck in the 90's.

This is just my opinion of course, so don't be offended

Wow, are you under the effect of some kind of optic drugs or what?

[Carnook]

Originally Posted by Hornady

I dont know what TCO is but it sounds stupid if it makes a 31k car the same price as a 38k car.

Total cost of ownership. In this case it would mean the car, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by Alpine*

Wow, are you under the effect of some kind of optic drugs or what?

I know a lot of people who think the F20/21 looks very good. Maybe it is a cultural thing. I have noticed that the chinese and americans tend to prefer the look of big sedans, while people in southern Europe generally like small hatchbacks.

[elstoof]

I like the look of it, I wouldn't have bought one otherwise. M Sport bumpers are preferable though. I think it's the best looking hatchback on the market personally, most other things are boringly similar to all the others or their previous model (I'm looking at you Audi).

I really don't understand why some people think that their tastes are the only correct ideal and if you disagree you are wrong, it's a very strange and narrow point of view to have.

[ozinaldo]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

I know a lot of people who think the F20/21 looks very good. Maybe it is a cultural thing. I have noticed that the chinese and americans tend to prefer the look of big sedans, while people in southern Europe generally like small hatchbacks.

Don't think there is anything cultural about that. I see F20s here all the time, including M135i and the only really uninspiring thing about that car is definitely its looks. I had many small cars, most of them hatches in various countries all my life; F20 is not among the impressive ones in terms of exterior design. I find it following its bigger siblings' design language too much and at a wrong scale and somehow underwhelming. From certain angles it really looks like some other brand and much more ordinary small cars. The point is it shouldn't hide its qualities like this.

I would still buy one due to many and obvious qualites though, like it is a rwd, perfectly smooth auto or nice manuals, good quality interior and fine engines including the N55. These matter most but there is no need to fool ourselves about the exterior, it's a shy design to say the least which should be left for VW/Audi cars not for a small performance car made in Munich.

I hate almost all recent Mercedes models but I admit that the A series look way better in person than the new 1 series and that's probably the only catch about that car (Merc), including the A45AMG vs. M135i.

All I want to say is BMW could and should do better! I hope they will fix this and fix it good with the M2.

[MWM3]

Not too excited about this comparison

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by elstoof

I like the look of it, I wouldn't have bought one otherwise. M Sport bumpers are preferable though. I think it's the best looking hatchback on the market personally, most other things are boringly similar to all the others or their previous model (I'm looking at you Audi).

I really don't understand why some people think that their tastes are the only correct ideal and if you disagree you are wrong, it's a very strange and narrow point of view to have.

The Bimmer is polarizing. This shouldn't have been the case. The F10 is a universal acceptable car and has at least as many adepts than the F20 so when they wanted, they could have done it.

Good design is also in being in universal acceptable. The F20 isn't, I don't only consider my opinion, but also from a lot of friends and forum discussions here. No other car has so many discussions about this topic for several years in a row on it's own enthousiast forum.

[scheneider]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

I know a lot of people who think the F20/21 looks very good. Maybe it is a cultural thing. I have noticed that the chinese and americans tend to prefer the look of big sedans, while people in southern Europe generally like small hatchbacks.

people who said it looks bad, obviously never seen one in real life, especially the americans. i dont know y they banned hatches to go into their market

[Hornady]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

I know a lot of people who think the F20/21 looks very good. Maybe it is a cultural thing. I have noticed that the chinese and americans tend to prefer the look of big sedans, while people in southern Europe generally like small hatchbacks.

its a financial thing.

If you spend £30k on car its going to look good.

Just like when you spend £10k on your wifes face and she looks like a waxwerk horror.

Are you going to tell her?

[Hornady]

Originally Posted by elstoof

I like the look of it, I wouldn't have bought one otherwise. M Sport bumpers are preferable though. I think it's the best looking hatchback on the market personally, most other things are boringly similar to all the others or their previous model (I'm looking at you Audi).

I really don't understand why some people think that their tastes are the only correct ideal and if you disagree you are wrong, it's a very strange and narrow point of view to have.

The S3 looks better inside and outside. Fact.

This is why the design changes only slightly. Also the New TT looks amazing given its R8 front end.

BMW front end is as bad as the ugly ass e90 3er which is also horrible.

Now the only problem is the ugly head lights and thats the only major issue.

E92
Z4
5er
6er

All good looking front ends.

1 series has been ugly since birth, If this was sparta that 1er would be on the dead ugly baby pile.