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      07-30-2019, 10:39 PM   #67
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The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
Correct you are.

But they only have two of them.

And they build two of the nicest in the industry.

Porsche doesn't just throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks.
Porsche really makes nice looking cars!!!!

PLUS the PROFIT is an estimated $17,250 for every car, according to Bloomberg, and BMW, Audi and Mercedes each make about $10,500 average per car, according to Motor Authority.
I believe it.

$12750 off of a GTS.

They were blowing them out over the weekend.
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      07-30-2019, 10:44 PM   #68
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Correct you are.

But they only have two of them.

And they build two of the nicest in the industry.

Porsche doesn't just throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks.
Porsche has far more than just two.

Cayenne is expanding into coupe versions aka X6 types. The newly updated Macan's are rumored to be getting a full EV version soon too. Soon to probably get an updated GTS and Turbo version.

Not to mention both Cayenne and Macan has multiple engine options. Base, S, GTS and Turbo for both. Soon, Cayenne will have a coupe version with roughly the same engine options too.

BMW needs to expand in a meaningful way, not just come up with a bunch of base versions that people won't buy. How many people would buy a 6, 7, 8 series that are under age 50? I get the feeling whoever is behind the product expansion didn't properly think the age group they are targeting.
Served up anyway you'd like them.

The Electric Macan is roughly 2 years out.

The 100% Electric Macan will replace all gasoline versions.
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      07-30-2019, 11:18 PM   #69
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The 8 coupe and X2 are dead next gen. That was fast. I think Mercedes is killing the S Class Coupe off also though.
X2 is junk
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      07-30-2019, 11:24 PM   #70
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It is sad to hear about the Z4, but not surprising. I actually tried to test drive one over the weekend, but was denied due to a recall. I would go Supra if I was going to jump in that platform, but it still feels overpriced. Maybe a new Corvette is in my future or a used F-Rype R for the right price. No new BMW really interests (maybe a M2C, but kind of waiting for the used market) me and I have owned one for at least 1/3 of my life.

An iZ4 might do the trick though a la original Tesla Roadster.
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      07-30-2019, 11:47 PM   #71
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I see quite a few 6 series on the road still, think BMW made a big mistake bringing in the 8 series. Should have just done limited release M8
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      07-31-2019, 12:10 AM   #72
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The 8 coupe and X2 are dead next gen. That was fast. I think Mercedes is killing the S Class Coupe off also though.
Clearly BMW is backpedaling.

If BMW was to make the X2 100% Electric, there would be no reason to discontinue it.
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      07-31-2019, 12:39 AM   #73
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Quote:
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The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
Correct you are.

But they only have two of them.

And they build two of the nicest in the industry.

Porsche doesn't just throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks.
Well, since they sell more SUV than sportcars, is they still a «sportscar» brand?
And their parts come from VW now, which make them less uniqe and cheaper. Porsche is not what it was either, Nothing is, but some of this news is off, regardless BMW are in serious trouble these days.
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      07-31-2019, 12:51 AM   #74
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The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
Correct you are.

But they only have two of them.

And they build two of the nicest in the industry.

Porsche doesn't just throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks.
Well, since they sell more SUV than sportcars, is they still a "sportscar" brand?
And their parts come from VW now, which make them less uniqe and cheaper. Porsche is not what it was either, Nothing is, but some of this news is off, regardless BMW are in serious trouble these days.
As long as they make the 911, and 718 sisters alike, I'd say yes ‼️
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      07-31-2019, 01:06 AM   #75
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As long as they make the 911, and 718 sisters alike, I'd say yes ‼️
Too many enthusiast think badly of manufacturers going down the SUV route.

The fact is, SUVs are a huge thing for every car manufacturer that aren't Tesla and without a strong SUV lineup, you are basically shooting yourself in the foot.

Porsche, by far, has every right to make SUVs because they make them the best. Recently drove the X3M like many who attended the M Town events in SoCal. I was a bit unimpressed and I think I might be one of the few to have that feeling. Pretty sure it is because I drive a Macan S more or less as a daily and the X3M just doesn't feel as engaging of an SUV in comparison. The only thing the X3M does better is in the infotainment aspect and the S58 is a smooth engine but I felt some slight turbo lag.

I know the PDK in the Macan is lifted from an Audi DSG and shared chassis with the Q5. Personally not sure how much is taken from VW directly but Porsche takes from Audi definitely.
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      07-31-2019, 01:10 AM   #76
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No surprise here, somebody forgot to teach BMW the KISS principle. Too many models and trims. M for their SUVs (excuse me, SAVs)?! Just ridiculous, besides being waaaaaay too diluted to the pt 'M' is now meaningless.

8 series looked alright but I don't like big cars and ironically, the backseats are worse than a 1 series! This is like a boat. Crazy.

I'm pretty unbiased and wanted the first gen Z4 but settled for the 2nd due to timing. BMW has no idea what it wants to do w the Z series by itself, so not shocked they have no idea what to do w their entire line. The 3rd gen is just uninspired, they wasted all this time/$ and esp partnering w Toyota to come up w something that looks more like a Merc w similar performance figures to the outgoing model? Why even bother?

Don't even get me started on their confusing model nomenclature and wonky overzealous designs, might as well put freaking laser beams on the cars since they want them to look more 'aggressive' w the crazy million wedges, air intakes, etc, like a M model that OD'd on steroids.
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      07-31-2019, 01:12 AM   #77
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BMW has made a ton of questionable decisions over the past decade.

The i division to start...total disaster.
Way behind the curve on EVs
Diesels and hybrids failing in the market
3GT, 5/6 GT, 2GT
FWD models
Dead steering, cars getting to huge and bloated
Near-death of the manual transmission
M badges and/or stripes all over non-M cars

Their focus has clearly deviated from what they were once famous for. It's more about marketing an image than producing the product. Besides the 7-series their vehicles are all very class competitive (best or near-best), but they aren't good BMWs!
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      07-31-2019, 02:03 AM   #78
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Gonna wait for the X10
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      07-31-2019, 02:36 AM   #79
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in the beginning of 90's, BMW was success story, basic model lineup: 3,5,7 and odd Z3, then comes X5 which was success as well, then X3, disaster, 1 series, disaster apart from 1M, then X1, 2 series Scenic, 5GT, 3GT, all disasters.
BMW should stick with 3 and 4 series based on same platform: one sedan one coupe, M3,M4,
5 and 6 series plus M5 M6,
7 and 7iL no M,
X5 no M,
One lightweight Supercar/Racecar/New technology pioneer/Poster/Dream.
Simple.
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      07-31-2019, 05:36 AM   #80
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Lots of enthusiast bashing, but BMW probably needs

1. More SUV
2. Dedicated electric platform

To survive, don't think most enthusiast like either.

On car ownership part I only had the proper excuse to buy a car after having first kid (live in NYC, only drive on weekend) and I put less than 5000 miles a year, and if I didn't have to haul a child seat around all the time I probably wouldn't have gotten a car either...
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      07-31-2019, 06:10 AM   #81
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There was a time when BMW didn't care about the curve and was always setting the standard in great driver cars.

Now they're just another ordinary company selling the badge; not the driving experience.

Sure they are financially alive; but they are philosophically dead!
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      07-31-2019, 06:44 AM   #82
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Well that sucks for BMW but they had been warned early on the market is switching rapidly as is the tech surrounding cars, having cars these days not being able to update features Over the air is a death sentences why would you wan't a car witch tech is obsolete the day it arrives from factory? And can't be updated regularly like with an Iphone or Android phone, where an updated OS can make a ton of difference.

Also ignoring the fact that the electric market is growing and the people who have something like an M3/M4 and wan't a good day to day car that is electric witch doesn't look like the i3 (me being an i3 owner my self but i do like it because it is so weird in so many ways.) That is the gap that the Tesla model 3 filled you don't have to like Tesla for nothing but they sure have taken big parts of the market.

And with regulations getting harder and harder for the average joe/joelin they simply don't wan't a an regular ICE car but an electric car witch is priced fairly has long range and doesn't again look like the I3 that is what tesla took from BMW.

Now BMW and some other manufacturers are paying the price for making deals with the "devil" aka OPEC countries.

And i am sorry to have to say this but today's generation not speaking for every single human being on planet earth but generations to come they simply don't care about cars the way that some of us fans to fun cars do, they want their car to be an gadget just like their phones or smart watches etc... and that gap is filled today by Tesla so i hope BMW has learned their lessons and don't play by the tone that OPEC countries play but actually go your own way.

It has been a costly lessons but hope they have learned by now. You simply just can't release a car today that is out of date 6 months later with it gadgets without anyway of upgrading them. Regular people won't pay that much money for cars that are old 6 months later in gadget department.
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      07-31-2019, 06:46 AM   #83
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There was a time when BMW didn't care about the curve and was always setting the standard in great driver cars.

Now they're just another ordinary company selling the badge; not the driving experience.

Sure they are financially alive; but they are philosophically dead!
Meh, The typical BMW (and Porsche/Audi/Benz) owner is in a lease and doesn't have the miles to road trip the vehicle. They're not what I would call "drivers" but there's a ton of them.
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      07-31-2019, 07:00 AM   #84
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This is why I’ll be hanging onto my M4CS... I can see things getting much worse, they are already.
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      07-31-2019, 07:00 AM   #85
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Ageee with design shortcomings and failures. BMW is an emotional and luxury purchase - you have to enjoy looking at the car.

Also size matters - they added the 1 and 2 series and BLOATED the 3 , 5 and 7 and now they have to cut models - they should also right size their staple models 3, 5 and 7.
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      07-31-2019, 07:15 AM   #86
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I like the strategy of consolidating the lineup and clearing out some of the garbage. No offense to the people who like the cars being canceled, but this whole strategy of baking the cookie in slightly different shapes was miring the company in mediocrity, unimaginativeness (is that a word?) and stagnation.

It’s too bad the M8 won’t get a chance to prove itself, but let’s face it - it really should have been the M6. Maybe there’s a sly wordplay in there somewhere where they actually plan to keep the car going as a 6-series. The X8 is stupid but there’s no denying that these bloated crossovers sell like crazy these days...so at least it’s not a bad corporate decision.
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      07-31-2019, 07:26 AM   #87
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All of this "there was a time" and "BMW used to be" is boring. They're a mass market car, well vehicle, company in business to make a profit - not a niche brand. How many cars does Porsche sell in a year? Fine, point to them as a halo brand but the comparisons don't really seem to be apples to apples IMO. What's the Porsche version of a 3 series? An Audi.

Companies must evolve to stay relevant and the market has changed. Like it or not, Tesla has put pressure on the luxury car manufacturers. Vehicle sales in the US are down this year, even in the red hot SUV and pickup market. The Transportation sector is perhaps the largest producer of greenhouse gases in the US, and for more and more, particularly younger people, a car is a luxury not a necessity.

BMW could choose to become a niche player, building a limited set of heavy steering, manual cars with stiff suspensions that appeal to enthusiasts (only). Or they can try to figure out the right mix of models to remain a volume manufacturer. Regardless of what the end state will be, I applaud the willingness to make tough decisions to build a profitable portfolio.
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      07-31-2019, 07:51 AM   #88
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A few thoughts...
1. When they say kill models they definitely mean at the end of their planned lifecycle, it would be lunacy to not recoup the R+D investment.. all the investment cost for a new vehicle are up front
2. I don't really trust the writer overall, too many opinion references to the design of the cars.. didn't read like a cold informative story.. read more like a political opinion piece which means the author is probably bending some of the truth to fit his narrative
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