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      01-20-2020, 02:13 PM   #1
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Immune cell which could kill cancer...

What thinks all of you? Seemed like they are excited. Cancer is awful, and while it would be great to cure it, we all need to die of something, so something else will replace it if we can cure it I figure.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51182451
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      01-20-2020, 02:30 PM   #2
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I believe they will never allow a cure, way too much money to be made. This includes organizations, some are borderline cult like, and they bring in an unbelievable amount of funds. All you have to look at is where their money is spent and you'll find very little goes to actual research. I would bet that a cure was found many years ago and it was squashed.

The powers at be want some sort of population control in one form or another and the U.S. has been caught in this in the past. Was a big movement for a while, I still believe it is. I don't want to think like this but it wouldn't surprise me either. Look at climate change, do you think people living longer would be in their best interest?
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      01-20-2020, 02:44 PM   #3
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Thank you for your sentiments on cancer.

Being a two time cancer survivor, I have been exposed to many of these break through stories through the now 7 years of being on this awful journey. I've learned to not get excited unless a particular therapy reaches phase 2 trials. Even phase 1 provides a little hope. But when a particular break through has only been demonstrated in a lab or in animal tests, I don't get excited at all.

What they're talking about has been done with other immunotherapy techniques. Look up the TIL treatment currently being done at NIH. 60 Minutes did a story on this and the person they profiled in the story is a member of a colon cancer support forum I'm a part of. She started a long running and large thread there detailing her experience with information about TIL. In a nut shell, the doctors did a genetic analysis of her tumor and then modified her immune cells to target her specific tumor cells.

Many people don't understand cancers are different among each type of cancers and within a category of cancer, you have many differences within. This is what makes cancer so hard to treat because no one person really has the same type of cancer even though they're in the same category. For a solid tumor cancer such as colon cancer, there are so many genetic variants which if one has a specific genetic mutation would make specific drugs either effective or ineffective. If you're KRAS Wild, then Erbitux is a drug option but if one is KRAS Mutant, Erbitux is totally ineffective. If your MSI-high, then you have immunotherapy options. But if your MSS, then the current immunotherapies will not work at all. And unfortunately, most colon cancer patients are MSS. There are also other mutations tracked with colon cancer such as BRAF.

This is why you're seeing buzz word statements being thrown around by many advertisements called targeted cancer treatment or individualized cancer treatment. More patients are going through genetic testing to see what mutations are present in their tumors so targeted therapies can be created to treat that person's specific cancer. The insidious issue with cancer is what you learn in your biology class with genetics. Because of the fast replication rate of cancer cells, eventually cancer cells mutate to adapt and work around any drug treatment. This is why immunotherapy is such a hot area of research. And to put things in perspective, the main line drug used to treat colon cancer is still 5FU. 5FU is a DNA scrambler that affects fast replicating cells....ie cancer cells. But unfortunately, cells in the GI tract are also of this type of profile hence all of the nasty side effects. 5FU was created, if I remember correctly, back in the late 40s. This should tell you how daunting finding a cure for cancer is.
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      01-20-2020, 02:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Our03z4 View Post
I believe they will never allow a cure, way too much money to be made. This includes organizations, some are borderline cult like, and they bring in an unbelievable amount of funds. All you have to look at is where their money is spent and you'll find very little goes to actual research. I would bet that a cure was found many years ago and it was squashed.

The powers at be want some sort of population control in one form or another and the U.S. has been caught in this in the past. Was a big movement for a while, I still believe it is. I don't want to think like this but it wouldn't surprise me either. Look at climate change, do you think people living longer would be in their best interest?
Being someone who has won the cancer lottery twice, I have a specific insight on this that those who have not experienced cancer will never have.

Yes, I've heard about all the conspiracy theories of big pharma and profits. For those that have read my posts on these types of topics, it's no secret how I feel about health insurance. This is where you want to focus your attention on.

I know of two people who have worked in cancer drug research who received the gift that keeps on giving from cancer. Tom Marsilje was a cancer drug researcher for Novartis. On the day his drug was FDA approved for lung cancer he went in for a colonoscopy and found out he had colon cancer. He initially started off as stage 3 but later on suffered from recurrence which became untreatable. He started a blog chronicling his journey and explaining new cancer treatments in details a lay person could understand. His blog was called Adventures In Living Terminally Optimistic. Unfortunately, his site is down as the domain registration has expired. He was also interviewed for the PBS series on cancer called the Emperor of all Maladies before he got sick. He remained positive and optimistic to the very end. It was a huge gut punch to everyone in the CRC community when news of his passing hit.

The other person goes by the name of Grouseman on the Colon Talk forum. His wife was diagnosed off the bat with stage 4 colon cancer. Grouseman used to work in cancer drug research and had to deal with the ultimate passing of his wife.
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      01-20-2020, 04:26 PM   #5
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zx10guy

I'm glad to hear you survived 2 times, and wish you all the best in your future.

My wife had ovarian cancer and got by it shortly after we met. She can't have kids, but I feel like things worked out like they did as I had custody of my daughter when we met....so she practically raised her from the age of 7.

She was more of a mom than her real mom.
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      01-20-2020, 04:41 PM   #6
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It's a good idea that has been around for a while where you take a patient's cell and re-engineer them to produce a modified, repaired, or improved protein. In this case you would make your T-cells attack and target cancer cells for degradation without touching the normal tissue.

Genetic engineering, treatment would likely be prohibitively expensive.

Better wait for some phase I or II, I agree.
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      01-20-2020, 05:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Our03z4 View Post
I believe they will never allow a cure, way too much money to be made. This includes organizations, some are borderline cult like, and they bring in an unbelievable amount of funds. All you have to look at is where their money is spent and you'll find very little goes to actual research. I would bet that a cure was found many years ago and it was squashed.

The powers at be want some sort of population control in one form or another and the U.S. has been caught in this in the past. Was a big movement for a while, I still believe it is. I don't want to think like this but it wouldn't surprise me either. Look at climate change, do you think people living longer would be in their best interest?
All I could do was answer this with a few memes, a quote from Ben Franklin and a question: Do you have ANY idea of the number of people you'd have to kill to keep this a secret?

I have a good friend who works in oncology immunology and he collaborates with dozens of other researchers who in turn collaborate with dozens of other researchers themselves. At the last R and D company I worked at there were over 2,700 R and D scientists in various capacities and hundreds of other on a contract basis. If, as you say, it's a conspiracy...you'd have to kill THOUSANDs of people at ONE COMPANY. This would be impossible even for The Clinton's and isn't realistic. Please choose your hat.
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      01-20-2020, 05:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
zx10guy

I'm glad to hear you survived 2 times, and wish you all the best in your future.

My wife had ovarian cancer and got by it shortly after we met. She can't have kids, but I feel like things worked out like they did as I had custody of my daughter when we met....so she practically raised her from the age of 7.

She was more of a mom than her real mom.
Glad she's ok. My mom survived stage 3 ovarian cancer. Still going strong!!
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      01-20-2020, 05:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
What thinks all of you? Seemed like they are excited. Cancer is awful, and while it would be great to cure it, we all need to die of something, so something else will replace it if we can cure it I figure.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51182451
I saw that this morning. Very interesting.
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      01-20-2020, 05:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rmtt View Post
zx10guy

I'm glad to hear you survived 2 times, and wish you all the best in your future.

My wife had ovarian cancer and got by it shortly after we met. She can't have kids, but I feel like things worked out like they did as I had custody of my daughter when we met....so she practically raised her from the age of 7.

She was more of a mom than her real mom.
I'm glad your wife is past her cancer. I had a manager and what I consider pretty much family pass away from ovarian cancer. From your post I can tell you're a good man. Much like my former neighbor. He stuck by his wife's side for 25 years with 20 of those years tainted by cancer. She passed away last year. Her passing emotionally crushed me. But he never waivered from her side. Unlike my soon to be ex who pretty much left me to fend for myself when I was hit with my second cancer.

Last edited by zx10guy; 01-20-2020 at 08:28 PM..
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      01-20-2020, 05:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
All I could do was answer this with a few memes, a quote from Ben Franklin and a question: Do you have ANY idea of the number of people you'd have to kill to keep this a secret?

I have a good friend who works in oncology immunology and he collaborates with dozens of other researchers who in turn collaborate with dozens of other researchers themselves. At the last R and D company I worked at there were over 2,700 R and D scientists in various capacities and hundreds of other on a contract basis. If, as you say, it's a conspiracy...you'd have to kill THOUSANDs of people at ONE COMPANY. This would be impossible even for The Clinton's and isn't realistic. Please choose your hat.
And what doesn't get publicized are drug companies have established compasionate use programs along with financial assistance which many times cover most if not all of a drug's cost.
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      01-20-2020, 06:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
What thinks all of you? Seemed like they are excited. Cancer is awful, and while it would be great to cure it, we all need to die of something, so something else will replace it if we can cure it I figure.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51182451
Sorry, that reads like people only die of cancer and other serious diseases. Am I reading you wrong?
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      01-20-2020, 07:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
All I could do was answer this with a few memes, a quote from Ben Franklin and a question: Do you have ANY idea of the number of people you'd have to kill to keep this a secret?

I have a good friend who works in oncology immunology and he collaborates with dozens of other researchers who in turn collaborate with dozens of other researchers themselves. At the last R and D company I worked at there were over 2,700 R and D scientists in various capacities and hundreds of other on a contract basis. If, as you say, it's a conspiracy...you'd have to kill THOUSANDs of people at ONE COMPANY. This would be impossible even for The Clinton's and isn't realistic. Please choose your hat.
What about the thousands of people in the link below? They knew what they were doing but didn't need to be killed. Or how about the 2nd link. Or the 3rd. All done by scientists, willingly, and by the US of A too.

There are more scientists and Dr's that are good than bad, I know plenty, but trust me there are some not so good...I know them too. I have personally met people involved in horrible things, they would change your mind on what you believe. People you would think seem nice, would want as a neighbor, etc, but trust me...they aren't. Just because you know great people who truly care doesn't mean that there aren't people on the other side of things. It's in our nature to believe people want to do right, and some start out that way, but unfortunately some stray and go down the wrong path.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/secret-...-cause-worry/#

http://www.slate.com/articles/health..._tuskegee.html

https://www.time.com/4867267/tuskegee-syphilis-study
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      01-20-2020, 08:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Our03z4 View Post
What about the thousands of people in the link below? They knew what they were doing but didn't need to be killed. Or how about the 2nd link. Or the 3rd. All done by scientists, willingly, and by the US of A too.

There are more scientists and Dr's that are good than bad, I know plenty, but trust me there are some not so good...I know them too. I have personally met people involved in horrible things, they would change your mind on what you believe. People you would think seem nice, would want as a neighbor, etc, but trust me...they aren't. Just because you know great people who truly care doesn't mean that there aren't people on the other side of things. It's in our nature to believe people want to do right, and some start out that way, but unfortunately some stray and go down the wrong path.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/secret-...-cause-worry/#

http://www.slate.com/articles/health..._tuskegee.html

https://www.time.com/4867267/tuskegee-syphilis-study
The propagation of information make large scale tests of this type nearly impossible. Could a determined actor do something on a small scale...yes. Writ large? I think not.
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      01-20-2020, 08:06 PM   #15
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Grain of salt,
https://www.netflix.com/title/80208910


IMO, gene therapy is the way things should go.
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      01-21-2020, 10:28 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher View Post
Sorry, that reads like people only die of cancer and other serious diseases. Am I reading you wrong?
Yes.

Course people die other ways, just so happens cancer takes a good number of the overall percentage...and if that was no more, I figure some other disease will step in to take its place. We all have to die.

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      01-24-2020, 02:59 PM   #17
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^ I would dare to say that if we took a poll of folks on this forum had/knew of a family or friend who died of cancer the percentage would be pretty high.

Not sure I could say the same about other forms of death (i.e., bullet, car crash, etc. etc.)
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      01-24-2020, 11:56 PM   #18
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This is no different than saying immunization is harmful. As the other informed post above says, “cancer” is a generic term, like “country”. If someone finds a definitive cure for any of the common cancers, they will be guaranteed a Nobel. For the guys that do research, there is no bigger reward.

If you want to find data that supports your view, you should quote from pubmed, not slate or cbs or time.


Edit: and btw the Tuskegee study that two of your links refer to, and the things the Germans and Japanese did in WWII were atrocious. Lot of safeguards and requirements for conducting studies in this era to prevent this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Our03z4 View Post
What about the thousands of people in the link below? They knew what they were doing but didn't need to be killed. Or how about the 2nd link. Or the 3rd. All done by scientists, willingly, and by the US of A too.

There are more scientists and Dr's that are good than bad, I know plenty, but trust me there are some not so good...I know them too. I have personally met people involved in horrible things, they would change your mind on what you believe. People you would think seem nice, would want as a neighbor, etc, but trust me...they aren't. Just because you know great people who truly care doesn't mean that there aren't people on the other side of things. It's in our nature to believe people want to do right, and some start out that way, but unfortunately some stray and go down the wrong path.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/secret-...-cause-worry/#

http://www.slate.com/articles/health..._tuskegee.html

https://www.time.com/4867267/tuskegee-syphilis-study

Last edited by Gesler; 01-25-2020 at 12:04 AM..
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      01-25-2020, 01:25 PM   #19
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      01-25-2020, 02:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Our03z4 View Post
I believe they will never allow a cure, way too much money to be made. This includes organizations, some are borderline cult like, and they bring in an unbelievable amount of funds. All you have to look at is where their money is spent and you'll find very little goes to actual research. I would bet that a cure was found many years ago and it was squashed.

The powers at be want some sort of population control in one form or another and the U.S. has been caught in this in the past. Was a big movement for a while, I still believe it is. I don't want to think like this but it wouldn't surprise me either. Look at climate change, do you think people living longer would be in their best interest?
So a couple of quick points here.....your notion that big pharma will never allow the cure is flawed in that it assumes nobody in big pharma or their family members never get cancer. Because nobody who had a kid sick with cancer would take the money over curing their kid.....the second problem is that if someone found the cure how would that get kept quiet.

My buddies wife is a raw vegetable vegan who's also an anti-vaxer and thinks that doctors are all in bed with pharma and monsanto. The absurdity of it is too much and it makes my head hurt.
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      01-26-2020, 01:49 AM   #21
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Late 2018 I got diagnosed, surgery and chemo took care of it, (damn chemo is strong) never really did drugs, Drinking only @ cookouts or on holiday AND I eat whole wheat with my grilled cheese... (ate basically healthy) no matter, cancer can pick anyone, happy healthy 36 year old never sick before

Hospitals I've been to, specialists I've seen and my insurance company all wanted me to get healthy sincerely, I honestly do not think there is any conspiracy not to find a cure just a terrible disease that devastates families

the hardware my urologist used looked like straight out of a bad "saw" horror movie, me: your putting that in there?!? No way no how, how does it fit? I don't believe you, that looks like a hdmi cable for my tv, where is all the 2020 teck stuff? that looks like it's from the 1980's (doctor: it works, we still use it.

I googled a pic of that dreaded tool, all men must see at least one time in life
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      02-05-2020, 05:08 PM   #22
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Interesting read:

Landmark study to transform cancer treatment https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51391151
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