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      02-14-2019, 05:44 PM   #67
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You are right! A very rare car indeed.
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      02-14-2019, 05:57 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Like BMW as a whole, they've gotten less raw since the F-chassis cars arrived. Most recently I was disappointed after driving the M4 as the E92 M3 was such a different experience. Regardless, it's all just a reflection of modern day consumers I suppose. And the cars are putting up better numbers than ever, superior to the competition as well.

I supposed the M2 Comp is the only ///M for me.
I haven't driven an F chassis car but I have heard those sentiments
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      02-14-2019, 06:11 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by DanG View Post
I agree. My old 318ti was an M Sport and had M badges on both fenders.
But they didn't call it M318ti like they do with the M235i. I think that cheapens the M brand a bit cus as I said, back then there was a clear distinction between a regular model vs M. Today those lines are a bit blurred to me. But I bet it's great for sales which is ultimately what they really care about.
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      02-14-2019, 06:47 PM   #70
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"Special" is not only a highly subjective word, but also by its very definition means something different to everyone on earth, based on their experiences and context.

My neighbor has this junk-ass Pontiac LeMans that's the most special thing in the world to him because he and his late father did everything in and to that car

I don't think M cars are special anymore because I have experience with them all through the years, and they've moved away from the things that I found special about them.

A guy who's worked his ass off to buy his first new sporty luxury car probably thinks his F8x is special af.

So this can go on for 20 pages with no one agreeing with each other and no one is wrong
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      02-14-2019, 07:12 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
"Special" is not only a highly subjective word, but also by its very definition means something different to everyone on earth, based on their experiences and context.

My neighbor has this junk-ass Pontiac LeMans that's the most special thing in the world to him because he and his late father did everything in and to that car

I don't think M cars are special anymore because I have experience with them all through the years, and they've moved away from the things that I found special about them.

A guy who's worked his ass off to buy his first new sporty luxury car probably thinks his F8x is special af.

So this can go on for 20 pages with no one agreeing with each other and no one is wrong
I think my 135i is special, because I've spent more on modifying and maintaining the bloody thing than I did to purchase it. ... I recon' a lot of owners (or ex-owners) of the E60 M5 feel the same way about that car for the same reason.

I also think the Pontiac Aztek and Fiat Multipla are special... in a 'special Olympics' kind of way.

... in other words, I couldn't agree with you more.

(EDIT: I also like the challenge you set. We're at page 4 now; only another 16 to go folks)
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      02-14-2019, 07:55 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xQx View Post
I think my 135i is special, because I've spent more on modifying and maintaining the bloody thing than I did to purchase it. ... I recon' a lot of owners (or ex-owners) of the E60 M5 feel the same way about that car for the same reason.

I also think the Pontiac Aztek and Fiat Multipla are special... in a 'special Olympics' kind of way.

... in other words, I couldn't agree with you more.

(EDIT: I also like the challenge you set. We're at page 4 now; only another 16 to go folks)
It's only page 2 in my browser
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      02-14-2019, 08:05 PM   #73
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Do folks buy a car because you enjoy it / it does what you want it to do / it drives like you want it to drive ... or do you buy it to show off / prove something?

There are different "levels" of M because they are designed for different uses. A "regular" M can make a great daily driver. Heck, I figure that actually having a usable trunk and back seat is a reason to get something like a M3 over a 911 in the first place. But if you are getting a car to mostly or only track, then getting a GTS where they have replaced the rear seats with a roll cage would make sense. Is your "regular" M3 any less fun to zip around in just because there exists a faster version? I would venture to say that at the end of the day, you'd enjoy it LESS because of all the things missing when they stripped it down for weight.

I just don't get why someone with a "regular" M would get their knickers in a bunch because there is a track version that would go faster. If you actually wanted a track car, buy a track car, but if you want a DD, then the only reason to worry that there is a faster one is because you didn't buy the car to enjoy, you bought it to show off / compensate. I mean heck, why not buy a GT4 race car and climb in and out of the window. It may be horribly impractical and uncomfortable, but at least you wouldn't have to feel like you were less of a man / have this ache in your heart that somewhere there existed a "more special" version of the type of car you drive.

It's equally ridiculous to me to whine that the next year's model has something better and you just HAVE to immediately buy the newer one. I was reading an article just the other day that noted that the M2C wasn't really much faster than the OG M2. Is there REALLY a situation where that .1 second quicker naught to 60 time is gonna make any difference in your life / enjoyment of your car? Are you even that good a driver that you could even tell the difference?

I see a LOT of people running around in various M cars that quite frankly can barely drive them. Saw one guy in a brand new M4 pull out of my work parking lot and, bless his heart, he could barely control it. Gods help us if he felt the need to get a even more special version.

Folks should buy a car because it gives them joy to drive, does what you need it to do and performs as well as you need it to. Buying a car to make yourself feel special just says to me that there is something wrong going on.
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      02-14-2019, 09:41 PM   #74
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I bought my car because I liked it. I liked the way it looked, I liked the way it drove, and I liked the way it made me feel. But by reading this thread I have come to the horrible realization I have made a terrible mistake... Little did I know I have purchased a plebeian carriage, a lowly base model 335i, suitable only for the unwashed masses. (sob)(tear rolls down cheek) I gotta go, I have to hide BMW's version of a Yugo under a tarp in the backyard so my neighbors won't have pity on me...
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      Yesterday, 10:55 AM   #75
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This thread has CLEARLY shown me one thing.

It's special if it's special to you. Doesn't matter what it is.

Like I said. My perspective is skewed. I have, what many will consider, one of the last of the true analog BMWs. It's special, especially to me.

But in reality? BMW couldn't care less about it. Not only did they not make another Z4 M in E89 guise, when they have the E89 Z4 competing with the M3 V8, they didn't even bother making a COUPE version for the new G29 Z4. They gave that right to Toyota.

That prompted me to make this post. BMW is a shell of who they used to be. They might as well be Toyota or GM, which is who they're aspiring to be. Volume sellers of average vehicles to appease the masses. Even their vaunted ///M brand has been diluted to middle of the road models requiring "Competition", CS, or GTS models to aspire to.

And you're right, even the E46 had "Competition" package (ZCP) and a CSL. But the CSL was freakin' UNOBTAINIUM here in the United States, and the "Competition" package wasn't a separate model with new engines and a bunch of trim upgrades...The ZCP package was an option you tick off on the build sheet for more track oriented equipment. Again, back then, you see an M3 on the road, and you know whoever bought it had aspired to own the top trim of the 3 series, whether or not that's their goal...

Time will tell. I suspect the way BMW has tiered their ///M products now, most of the F8X chassis will depreciate at a much faster rate because in the used car market, the "Competition," CS, and GTS models will be far more desirable.

But then again, I'm sure none of us bought our cars with the expressed intent to sell it, right?
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      Yesterday, 01:18 PM   #76
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Still enjoying my E92 M3 even after 8 years of ownership. I think part of it is knowing what you have and being content with it. There's always something better and newer.
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      Yesterday, 01:34 PM   #77
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I remember people talking about the '85 Mustang GT as being special because it was the last carbureted Mustang. The '93 SVT Cobra was deemed to be special because it was the first SVT, the last of the Fox body Mustang and the first 4-wheel disc-brake Mustang. I bought a '93 Cobra new, hung onto it for twenty years, decided to sell it but it's still a special car to me. "Special" is perspective dependent. I have a 1907 Savage .32 pistol that was handed down to me, my grandad bought it new - it is worth absolutely nothing to anybody except me.
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      Yesterday, 01:55 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
This thread has CLEARLY shown me one thing.

It's special if it's special to you. Doesn't matter what it is.
100% this. I'm not saying other people and how they feel are wrong, but at the end of the day, this is what matters.
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      Yesterday, 02:00 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Do folks buy a car because you enjoy it / it does what you want it to do / it drives like you want it to drive ... or do you buy it to show off / prove something?
I get the feeling that a lot of these topics on this forum are started by the latter ones.....
In the end buying a car is just chucking some money across a counter (these are not limited run cars where you have to be chosen to buy them...). Any idiot can do that. Like buying a carton of milk...

If you want a special car, customize it yourself. Then it at least shows that you have some tech skills (or paint skills, or whatever you do to your car)
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      Yesterday, 02:17 PM   #80
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What are you talking about??? The original M was the M-1 with an I6. The E30 M3 had an I4, the E36 M3 was I6, the E46 M3 was I6, the E28 M5 was I6, the E34 M5 was I6, and the E24 M6 was I6. Those are all part of the history of the M brand and have nothing to do with V8 or V10 or V12. Don't even know what an S64 is --- typo for S65?

It's truly amazing to find out that the E9X was the only true M car ever made
Us Aussies were born on the V8 tit. We have ALWAYS had an affinity for them, it has always appealed.
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      Yesterday, 04:34 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Do folks buy a car because you enjoy it / it does what you want it to do / it drives like you want it to drive ... or do you buy it to show off / prove something?

There are different "levels" of M because they are designed for different uses. A "regular" M can make a great daily driver. Heck, I figure that actually having a usable trunk and back seat is a reason to get something like a M3 over a 911 in the first place. But if you are getting a car to mostly or only track, then getting a GTS where they have replaced the rear seats with a roll cage would make sense. Is your "regular" M3 any less fun to zip around in just because there exists a faster version? I would venture to say that at the end of the day, you'd enjoy it LESS because of all the things missing when they stripped it down for weight.

I just don't get why someone with a "regular" M would get their knickers in a bunch because there is a track version that would go faster. If you actually wanted a track car, buy a track car, but if you want a DD, then the only reason to worry that there is a faster one is because you didn't buy the car to enjoy, you bought it to show off / compensate. I mean heck, why not buy a GT4 race car and climb in and out of the window. It may be horribly impractical and uncomfortable, but at least you wouldn't have to feel like you were less of a man / have this ache in your heart that somewhere there existed a "more special" version of the type of car you drive.

It's equally ridiculous to me to whine that the next year's model has something better and you just HAVE to immediately buy the newer one. I was reading an article just the other day that noted that the M2C wasn't really much faster than the OG M2. Is there REALLY a situation where that .1 second quicker naught to 60 time is gonna make any difference in your life / enjoyment of your car? Are you even that good a driver that you could even tell the difference?

I see a LOT of people running around in various M cars that quite frankly can barely drive them. Saw one guy in a brand new M4 pull out of my work parking lot and, bless his heart, he could barely control it. Gods help us if he felt the need to get a even more special version.

Folks should buy a car because it gives them joy to drive, does what you need it to do and performs as well as you need it to. Buying a car to make yourself feel special just says to me that there is something wrong going on.
Exactly this. Most people here never turn traction off and leave their DCT in auto mode 90% of the time. Yet they still trade up to the newer model and eat tons of depreciation because "Oh it has +20hp, seat cut outs, and it sounds better!" and "my dealer is getting me a similar lease payment so I'm all good!"

Same thing happened on the GTR forums. People constantly trading up because the newer car had +10-20 more HP. When in reality its just an tune that raises the boost 1-2psi with no other changes.

If pulling a car length on someone in a 10-15 second race is what it takes for you to buy one car over another... well you have some problems you need to deal with on a personal level.
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      Yesterday, 05:28 PM   #82
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SakhirM4 View Post
What are you talking about??? The original M was the M-1 with an I6. The E30 M3 had an I4, the E36 M3 was I6, the E46 M3 was I6, the E28 M5 was I6, the E34 M5 was I6, and the E24 M6 was I6. Those are all part of the history of the M brand and have nothing to do with V8 or V10 or V12. Don't even know what an S64 is --- typo for S65?

It's truly amazing to find out that the E9X was the only true M car ever made
Us Aussies were born on the V8 tit. We have ALWAYS had an affinity for them, it has always appealed.
oh, you're so not wrong there. I recon I'd be unhappy with an E60 M5 or a M760Li after a year or two - because there's just no substitute for that V8 exhaust note.

I still miss my X5 4.8is for that reason...
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      Yesterday, 09:13 PM   #83
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I'm buying a mid life crisis car and it's either NA V8 or a NA Porsche flat 6. There is no substitute.
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      Today, 01:26 AM   #84
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      Today, 03:44 PM   #85
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It appears not many know the history of the M-brand. I was into BMW before we saw the M designation and M branding.

The M1 project turned into a bit of a fiasco, but had made its mark with the public. The company looked to capitalise on that commercially, It was suggested to use the 'M' on a high performance, low volume version of the E12 5-series. Something similar to what Alpina was doing with the model. The M535i was born. Yes an M535i in 1979. Helped prop up sales of the Five, until the new E28 arrived. One of my colleagues had the original E12 M535i.

Using the 'M' for tuned versions of the bread and butter models therefore predated any M-car sedan.

As to current "exclusivity", "special", "dilution" or however we want to view the M-car brand, BMW is in business to sell vehicles, make a profit and take its share of the market.

I'd say the prolific use of the 'M' is more associated with the dilution of the brand, (than M brand specifically), which I know some despise that move, but it means survival of the BMW company. I'm sure we'd rather see a successful company, than a niche brand that is on the edge, or out of business.

Again, if we know a bit about the history, BMW have had financial issues through the years. Going volume with cars like the 3-series has been their best move ever, for survival and profit.

Dilution into many sub markets in the premium segment has also meant less exclusivity for M cars. The use of the M-sport and M-performance models allows them to reach a larger customer base. Good for the customer, but less exclusivity for the M-car user.

Is that a bad thing? As I see it only M-car snobs have an issue with M-cars in volume.

The other factor, there is plenty of money out there, hence volume sales of M cars. Unless BMW restrict production numbers of any given model, market forces dominate.

As to depreciation, the used market decide the values. Too many cars, and/or second users not seeing the value in the cars, sets the used car values. That is simple economics.

I come from the time when even a 5-series car was quite rare. I remember in my town, only two of us had an E12. Similar for the E28. To to see an E28 M5 was a very rare sight.

As to the cars themselves the market is different these days, even the M-car buyer wants all the creature comforts in the M-car package, it's a different world in 2019, than 1979.

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      Today, 04:03 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
It appears not many know the history of the M-brand. I was into BMW before we saw the M designation and M branding.

The M1 project turned into a bit of a fiasco, but had made its mark with the public. The company looked to capitalise on that commercially, It was suggested to use the 'M' on a high performance, low volume version of the E12 5-series. Something similar to what Alpina was doing with the model. The M535i was born. Yes an M535i in 1979. Helped prop up sales of the Five, until the new E28 arrived. One of my colleagues had the original E12 M535i.

Using the 'M' for tuned versions of the bread and butter models therefore predated any M-car sedan.

As to current "exclusivity", "special", "dilution" or however we want to view the M-car brand, BMW is in business to sell vehicles, make a profit and take its share of the market.

I'd say the prolific use of the 'M' is more associated with the dilution of the brand, (than M brand specifically), which I know some despise that move, but it means survival of the BMW company. I'm sure we'd rather see a successful company, than a niche brand that is on the edge, or out of business.

Again, if we know a bit about the history, BMW have had financial issues through the years. Going volume with cars like the 3-series has been their best move ever, for survival and profit.

Dilution into many sub markets in the premium segment has also meant less exclusivity for M cars. The use of the M-sport and M-performance models allows them to reach a larger customer base. Good for the customer, but less exclusivity for the M-car user.

Is that a bad thing? As I see it only M-car snobs have an issue with M-cars in volume.

The other factor, there is plenty of money out there, hence volume sales of M cars. Unless BMW restrict production numbers of any given model, market forces dominate.

As to depreciation, the used market decide the values. Too many cars, and/or second users not seeing the value in the cars, sets the used car values. That is simple economics.

I come from the time when even a 5-series car was quite rare. I remember in my town, only two of us had an E12. Similar for the E28. To to see an E28 M5 was a very rare sight.

As to the cars themselves the market is different these days, even the M-car buyer wants all the creature comforts in the M-car package, it's a different world in 2019, than 1979.
Well said. /closethread
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      Today, 04:19 PM   #87
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BMW is confused recently.. they had to attack cause Merc, Lexus, Audi, VW advanced more than BMW thought.. give BMW 2-3 years more..

though before BMW cars were complicated by their electronics and stuff.. but now models are complicated also.. and the saddest part.. all the M cars have almost the same engine.. 3.0L i6 or 4.4L V8.. and the worst part this V8 is getting older really.. Merc' is flying in recent years by their tech, their engines, their cabin feel and everything..
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