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      07-01-2022, 08:05 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Nobody really cares about that just like nobody cares about the revised hood line. That's a forum geek thing.
Just like the floated rear calipers, first world problem
Don't agree at all, one is merely cosmetic the other is performance related.
If you don't understand the difference between a multi piston caliper & a sliding single piston caliper do some research.
It's simply a cost cutting exercise due to the implementation of an electric handbrake & SOME manufacturers (eg BMW/Mercedes) unwillingness to develop & implement a better solution than simply upping the front brakes stopping power or increasing rotor sizing. Some other manufacturers of performance cars do it properly (eg Ferrari/Porsche).
Yes you can obviously make it work but it's clearly never going to be as good a solution.
ANYONE who can't understand that ask yourself why did BMW feel a need to have multi piston calipers on the rear of the previous F series M cars which were also comparably lighter & less powerful cars…?
Sorry to go off topic but I get tired of the statements on these forums by owners/fanboys with zero mechanical understanding that are so willing to swallow & parrot whatever marketing bs they are fed.🙄
You're unwilling to recognize that just because the caliper floats by design does not mean it immediately results in horrible brake performance. We're not idiots. You think the self-proclaimed enthusiast doesn't recognize the difference in operation between a piston set-up and a floating set-up?!?…..and the benefits to both?!? EVERYTHING to detractors is an exercise in how BMW is cost-cutting and trying to give the potential buyer the shaft. Rarely ever do you look at things objectively from the other vantage point.

Just for reference….

…an F82 needed about 151 feet to brake from 70-0 mph. The G82 needs 146 feet to achieve the same thing. Those numbers vary slightly depending on surface, time of day, etc., but overall stopping power isn't affected.
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      07-02-2022, 12:04 AM   #112
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@sedan_clan a few points to add to the conversation (and to sidebar from the ridiculous name calling and whatnot the other poster was doing):

1- you brought up stopping distance. That has nothing to do with brakes. That is all traction. Unless the brakes fade during that breaking, every car has enough brakes to lock the wheels. How far they take to stop depends on the traction the tires have to stop. Stopping distance is immaterial to the floating/fixed piston discussion.
2- when you bring up that few people track their cars, and if they do they upgrade the brakes, you’re somewhat making the point that BMW cheaped out on brakes. And they may have used the same logic you did.

I understand you’re trying to say BMW didn’t cheap out. A fixed calliper is more expensive than a floating single piston calliper. BMW decided to use a single piston floating calliper on a heavier car. If not for cost, what technical reason did they have?
I may have missed your perspective in other posts.

By “cheap out”, let’s understand BMW used what was necessary to have the car perform as they wanted it to, while making compromises to make the car viable (or else every part would be carbon fibre, for example, cost a fortune and not sell), and lucrative.

By “cheap out”, some are making the case that BMW is profiting more now than they did.
Which is industry standard.
An engineer that develops a hub with one less bolt (e.g. from 5 to 4), while saving pennies per wheel, saves the company millions as millions of cars are built. That’s how it works. I’m curious to understand how it isn’t “cheaper, but it is better”. Unless we’re splitting hairs here and debating the semantics of “cheapening out”. If we agree with this, I think we’re all on the same page. Doesn’t make the new brakes better though.
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      07-02-2022, 12:06 AM   #113
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I don't own a G82.

We know..under the flag of Brazil it reads "'22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S".

It's moving that you defend every BMW with such determination...with your regal ass on that gray and ugly thing.
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      07-02-2022, 12:23 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
@sedan_clan a few points to add to the conversation (and to sidebar from the ridiculous name calling and whatnot the other poster was doing):

1- you brought up stopping distance. That has nothing to do with brakes. That is all traction. Unless the brakes fade during that breaking, every car has enough brakes to lock the wheels. How far they take to stop depends on the traction the tires have to stop. Stopping distance is immaterial to the floating/fixed piston discussion.
2- when you bring up that few people track their cars, and if they do they upgrade the brakes, you're somewhat making the point that BMW cheaped out on brakes. And they may have used the same logic you did.

I understand you're trying to say BMW didn't cheap out. A fixed calliper is more expensive than a floating single piston calliper. BMW decided to use a single piston floating calliper on a heavier car. If not for cost, what technical reason did they have?
I may have missed your perspective in other posts.

By "cheap out", let's understand BMW used what was necessary to have the car perform as they wanted it to, while making compromises to make the car viable (or else every part would be carbon fibre, for example, cost a fortune and not sell), and lucrative.

By "cheap out", some are making the case that BMW is profiting more now than they did.
Which is industry standard.
An engineer that develops a hub with one less bolt (e.g. from 5 to 4), while saving pennies per wheel, saves the company millions as millions of cars are built. That's how it works. I'm curious to understand how it isn't "cheaper, but it is better". Unless we're splitting hairs here and debating the semantics of "cheapening out". If we agree with this, I think we're all on the same page. Doesn't make the new brakes better though.
Thanks for posting.
  • I agree, and I did account for other things that contribute to stopping distance/ability, including tires, in one of my prior posts.
  • As for BMW's technical justification, I don't have the inside scoop to answer that with any authority. My speculation is/was the floating design they used was sufficient to meet the criteria they set forth. BMW also mentioned their electronic e-brake system is easier to interface with the floating caliper design. Whether or not that's a sufficient answer depends on where you stand on the issue. There are plenty of threads on this forum consisting of members debating this issue/non-issue. This would be a good question to ask the ///M division though. I'm sure some in-depth technical analysis might provide clarity for some and fall on the deaf ears of others (…who will undoubtedly exclaim, "Porsche does it. Why can't you?). I also think it depends on how one frames the question. Did BMW ///M change the set-up to be cheap?….or did they realize there was no justification for going with a more expensive set-up to achieve little gain? Keep in mind we're talking about a two piston rear caliper on the F8X. It's not like we're talking about 4 or 6 pot calipers in the rear that BMW jettisoned in favor of a floating caliper.

I think BMW balanced out the need to provide a better overall car than the outgoing model (…which objectively they accomplished; weight and personal opinion(s) about the aesthetics notwithstanding) while keeping overall costs reasonable. They brought a lot of positives to the table (…e.g. carbon fiber buckets, for example) for not much more expense than the prior model. It all depends on your vantage point I suppose. If you're looking for a reason to be mad at the company, look no further than rear brakes and hood lines. If you're reasonable in your assessments (…speaking generally, not directed at you personally), it's not hard to see that BMW brought a more premium product to the masses than what we got with the F8X. Make no mistake, I loved my F8X's just as much as any ///M car I owned prior, but I do feel the G8X is a step above the outgoing car.


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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I don't own a G82.

We know..under the flag of Brazil it reads "'22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S".

It's moving that you defend every BMW with such determination...with your regal ass on that gray and ugly thing.
Yes, I have a Chalk 992. No, I don't defend every BMW. I just like to offer an alternative narrative to what's often posted in these threads.

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      07-02-2022, 01:08 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by TargaM2 View Post
Don't agree at all, one is merely cosmetic the other is performance related.
If you don't understand the difference between a multi piston caliper & a sliding single piston caliper do some research.
It's simply a cost cutting exercise due to the implementation of an electric handbrake & SOME manufacturers (eg BMW/Mercedes) unwillingness to develop & implement a better solution than simply upping the front brakes stopping power or increasing rotor sizing. Some other manufacturers of performance cars do it properly (eg Ferrari/Porsche).
Yes you can obviously make it work but it's clearly never going to be as good a solution.
ANYONE who can't understand that ask yourself why did BMW feel a need to have multi piston calipers on the rear of the previous F series M cars which were also comparably lighter & less powerful cars…?
Sorry to go off topic but I get tired of the statements by those with zero mechanical understanding that are so willing to swallow & parrot whatever marketing bs they are fed.🙄
I think the one with zero mechanical understanding is you.
We are talking about rear calipers on a street car, since you are so expert you should know what impact this has on performance (nearly zero), the advantage of a multi-piston caliper at the rear is almost irrelevant and it is an unnecessary complication for a street car combined with the e-parking brake (this is the reason, just get informed before you talk randomly). Definitely not something to worry about.
It's funny to read about cost cutting, Bmw could have used more expensive calipers (since they exist) and passed the price onto the finished product and thus onto the customer, but the benefit would have been irrelevant and I thank Bmw for saving me this unnecessary cost (well, in case I had it).
There are much higher performance, heavier and more expensive cars than any Bmw with floating rear calipers, and they brake perfectly.
I have no idea about the final specs of this CSL (I don't even read all the speculation these days, I only trust the official documents that I haven't seen yet), but it is too early to judge.
You only have to drive a G8x to realize how much better it brakes than the F8x's multi-piston rear brake; judging braking performance by the number of pistons in the rear is like measuring manhood by the inches of your tool. Definitely forum bullshit.
Most people wouldn't even know they have a floating caliper at the rear if someone didn't tell them.
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      07-02-2022, 01:20 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Name calling doesn't make your point for you (…talk is cheap coming from anonymous big mouths online; you wouldn't be so cavalier standing in front of me) and I don't own a G82.

We aren't talking race/rally cars with expensive braking systems. We are talking about a performance street car with plenty of braking power for the street and casual track duty. The G82 with a sliding rear caliper bests the lighter F82 with a piston rear caliper in all braking tests. Sure, some of that is larger rotors, etc., but it just demonstrates that a sliding rear caliper set-up doesn't immediately spell doom for performance. Most owners aren't tracking these cars anyway, and if they are, they are changing pads, brake fluids and/or brake systems altogether (..not to mention tires; all of which add up to better braking performance). For a street car, the G8X far surpasses what 95% of its buyers need.
The reason is so simple that it is probably too difficult for such knowledgeable professors to understand.
Bmw figured out where to increase braking (at the front, with a better caliper and wider rotors) and where to use a simpler solution (at the rear) without penalizing performance once it switched to electronic parking brake. They introduced the floating rear caliper back in 2011 with the F10 (first M car with e-brake) and no one complained, while it started to be a huge problem with the G8x for unknown reasons.
It's a win-win: we have a car with better braking performance, lower costs, less unsprung mass, and even better aesthetics (just compare the rear offset of the F8x and G8x).
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      07-02-2022, 01:27 AM   #117
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It works but can't absorb as much heat obviously. Don't really care it looks smaller, my ego doesn't neither.
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      07-02-2022, 01:28 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
@sedan_clan a few points to add to the conversation (and to sidebar from the ridiculous name calling and whatnot the other poster was doing):

1- you brought up stopping distance. That has nothing to do with brakes. That is all traction. Unless the brakes fade during that breaking, every car has enough brakes to lock the wheels. How far they take to stop depends on the traction the tires have to stop. Stopping distance is immaterial to the floating/fixed piston discussion.
2- when you bring up that few people track their cars, and if they do they upgrade the brakes, you’re somewhat making the point that BMW cheaped out on brakes. And they may have used the same logic you did.

I understand you’re trying to say BMW didn’t cheap out. A fixed calliper is more expensive than a floating single piston calliper. BMW decided to use a single piston floating calliper on a heavier car. If not for cost, what technical reason did they have?
I may have missed your perspective in other posts.

By “cheap out”, let’s understand BMW used what was necessary to have the car perform as they wanted it to, while making compromises to make the car viable (or else every part would be carbon fibre, for example, cost a fortune and not sell), and lucrative.

By “cheap out”, some are making the case that BMW is profiting more now than they did.
Which is industry standard.
An engineer that develops a hub with one less bolt (e.g. from 5 to 4), while saving pennies per wheel, saves the company millions as millions of cars are built. That’s how it works. I’m curious to understand how it isn’t “cheaper, but it is better”. Unless we’re splitting hairs here and debating the semantics of “cheapening out”. If we agree with this, I think we’re all on the same page. Doesn’t make the new brakes better though.
As far as I know, Bmw does not manufacture or design brakes.
They merely choose which products to use from those offered by suppliers on the market (Brembo, in this case).
Brembo (not Bmw) produces both more expensive and higher performance solutions (multi-piston rear calipers with e-brake integrated) for exotic supercars, and simpler and cheaper solutions for street cars (floating single pot caliper with e-brake).
They could have chosen the more expensive solution and I'm pretty sure Brembo would have been more than happy to sell them, but it probably wouldn't have been worth it considering the intended use, that's all.
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      07-02-2022, 01:39 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by VIERsr View Post
As far as I know, Bmw does not manufacture or design brakes.
They merely choose which products to use from those offered by suppliers on the market (Brembo, in this case).
Brembo (not Bmw) produces both more expensive and higher performance solutions (multi-piston rear calipers with e-brake integrated) for exotic supercars, and simpler and cheaper solutions for street cars (floating single pot caliper with e-brake).
They could have chosen the more expensive solution and I'm pretty sure Brembo would have been more than happy to sell them, but it probably wouldn't have been worth it considering the intended use, that's all.
Exactly. Thus, more profits.
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      07-02-2022, 01:57 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
Exactly. Thus, more profits.
Of course, they don't do charity. But did we lose anything? I'd say no.
The only M-car with a multi-piston rear caliper was the F8x, which braked like crap just like its single-piston rear caliper predecessors.
The G8x won't go down in history for its braking (the grille steals the show), but the overall braking performance is a step up from its predecessor, and that's good enough for me. Too bad about the aesthetics of that tiny caliper, but whatever.
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      07-02-2022, 02:11 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIERsr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onesie View Post
Exactly. Thus, more profits.
Of course, they don't do charity. But did we lose anything? I'd say no.
The only M-car with a multi-piston rear caliper was the F8x, which braked like crap just like its single-piston rear caliper predecessors.
The G8x won't go down in history for its braking (the grille steals the show), but the overall braking performance is a step up from its predecessor, and that's good enough for me. Too bad about the aesthetics of that tiny caliper, but whatever.
….and therein lies the rub. On forums, people expect a manufacturer not to profit and any profit the manufacturer experiences seems to rub some the wrong way. They should never buy a Porsche then. That company's profits are off the charts.

I think you're also spot-on with reference to your other point in bold. We lost nothing.

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      07-02-2022, 05:55 AM   #122
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Floating rear calipers simplify the cost and packaging when combined with the parking brake.

For street use you won't notice the difference, on my race car it makes a second a lap difference (apparently ;-)) and fade is better.

It also can look look ugly - both ways
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      07-02-2022, 11:49 AM   #123
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MUCH better front fascia. Nobody here was opposed to a more distinctive front end, but what they gave the world is straight trash.
Shouldn't you be banned for saying that
Mods will ban him soon enough. Can't say anything critical about BMW on a BMW forum, lol.
Happened to me. Mods are softer than Charmin toilet paper when you a critique a G8X model.
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      07-02-2022, 11:56 AM   #124
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Atleast give it the proper holfmeister kink
Nobody really cares about that just like nobody cares about the revised hood line. That's a forum geek thing.
Not true, but ok.
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      07-02-2022, 12:47 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Just for reference….
…an F82 needed about 151 feet to brake from 70-0 mph. The G82 needs 146 feet to achieve the same thing. Those numbers vary slightly depending on surface, time of day, etc., but overall stopping power isn't affected.
The reason for the initial brake advantage for the G series car is due to the tires.
G series cars have wider (by 20mm) and newer model tires that simply have more grip than the F series M Cars.
The brakes on the F generation cars are just better. The difference is initial braking vs sustained braking. Swap the tires and I would wager the F car will outperform the G car in both initial and sustained braking.
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      07-02-2022, 02:36 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Atleast give it the proper holfmeister kink
Nobody really cares about that just like nobody cares about the revised hood line. That's a forum geek thing.
Not true, but ok.
We can agree to disagree. Most things complained about on the forum are not concerns of the average buyer. If you asked the average person about the Hofmeister kink, they wouldn't even know what you're talking about (…let alone its General Motors origins).
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      07-02-2022, 02:43 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
The reason for the initial brake advantage for the G series car is due to the tires.
G series cars have wider (by 20mm) and newer model tires that simply have more grip than the F series M Cars.
The brakes on the F generation cars are just better. The difference is initial braking vs sustained braking. Swap the tires and I would wager the F car will outperform the G car in both initial and sustained braking.
This is absolutely false.
Front calipers: 2-pieces 4 pot / 380x30mm vs monoblock 6 pot / 380x36mm
Rear calipers: 2 pieces 2 pot / vs floating single pot, same rotors
The brakes on the G80 are clearly better.
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      07-02-2022, 03:43 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIERsr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
The reason for the initial brake advantage for the G series car is due to the tires.
G series cars have wider (by 20mm) and newer model tires that simply have more grip than the F series M Cars.
The brakes on the F generation cars are just better. The difference is initial braking vs sustained braking. Swap the tires and I would wager the F car will outperform the G car in both initial and sustained braking.
This is absolutely false.
Front calipers: 2-pieces 4 pot / 380x30mm vs monoblock 6 pot / 380x36mm
Rear calipers: 2 pieces 2 pot / vs floating single pot, same rotors
The brakes on the G80 are clearly better.
+1
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      07-04-2022, 11:10 AM   #129
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If it would have a cooler motor than the S58, would have been awesome.

Squeeze a s65b44 in it or a s85 or s62.... that's real homage!
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      07-04-2022, 01:45 PM   #130
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If they have this manual transmission, why not do a special run for for the 4-door fans on the G80. Maybe a US spec CS that is not an automatic? Seems like a lot of development cost to just use on one car.

Last edited by seis-speed; 07-04-2022 at 02:59 PM..
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      07-05-2022, 11:37 AM   #131
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I wonder if this is what the LCI 4-series front will look like...
Are we even gonna get a LCI for 4er?
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      07-05-2022, 11:47 PM   #132
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If it would have a cooler motor than the S58, would have been awesome.

Squeeze a s65b44 in it or a s85 or s62.... that's real homage!
I certainly am not a BMW officinado by any measure of imagination, but, wouldn't it be going against the grain if you put an 8 or 10-cylinder engine in the car that's meant to be paying homage to the original 3.0 CSL which was a 6-cylinder car?

Afterall, that's one reason this car is only coming in manual transmission.
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