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      06-24-2022, 05:30 PM   #45
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Love reading this especially given global state of affairs with EV's, fuel costs etc.

BMW has made some interesting decisions over the past few years but hands down, this one deserves full props.

Nice job 👍🏼 and the minority appreciates this.
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      06-24-2022, 05:32 PM   #46
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This combined with recent news that Germany is telling the EU and their 2035 ICE ban to f*ck off makes me giddy.

Long live ICE
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      06-24-2022, 05:55 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
This combined with recent news that Germany is telling the EU and their 2035 ICE ban to f*ck off makes me giddy.

Long live ICE
I don't know about that, BMW just opened a billion € R&D center to dedicated to only developing their next generation of all-electric & hybrid vehicles.

Not to mention that they have a fully-electric M5 with a 1000bhp to be release in just two years.

The writing is on the wall, BMW is currently in a transitionary period but by the following generation, all their vehicles will have an electric/hybrid drivetrain.

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      06-24-2022, 06:18 PM   #48
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I wish they had offered the M240i with a manual. I may have considered replacing my F22
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      06-24-2022, 06:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
This combined with recent news that Germany is telling the EU and their 2035 ICE ban to f*ck off makes me giddy.

Long live ICE
I don't know about that, BMW just opened a billion € R&D center to dedicated to only developing their next generation of all-electric & hybrid vehicles.

Not to mention that they have a fully-electric M5 with a 1000bhp to be release in just two years.

The writing is on the wall, BMW is currently in a transitionary period but by the following generation, all their vehicles will have an electric/hybrid drivetrain.

.

Pretty sure rumors I've seen is that the next M5 will be a mild hybrid with the ICE. Please correct me if I'm wrong
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      06-24-2022, 06:42 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm490 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
This combined with recent news that Germany is telling the EU and their 2035 ICE ban to f*ck off makes me giddy.

Long live ICE
Pretty sure rumors I've seen is that the next M5 will be a mild hybrid with the ICE. Please correct me if I'm wrong

Rumor has it that there will supposedly be two versions of the M5; a plug-in hybrid and a fully electric version.

To the point was attempting to make is that BMW is all on board with phasing out the ICE, as they are already christening a bonafide and established M model as fully electric. This will eventually trickle down to the lower tier M offerings.


https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...ve-up-1000-hp/
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      06-24-2022, 07:49 PM   #51
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And bmw since you cant figure it out, the technical reason is "fun"
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      06-24-2022, 08:09 PM   #52
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wonderful.

i will never buy any automatic as long as I can drive manuals.
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      06-24-2022, 08:19 PM   #53
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I wish they had offered the M240i with a manual. I may have considered replacing my F22
I probably would have had one by now too.
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      06-24-2022, 08:38 PM   #54
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Those companies are making short-sighted, greed-driven decisions to kill off manuals, and then hypocritically bemoan the inevitable outcome.

A few examples off the top of my head: BMW G80 Competition is just a few grand more than the base manual version. For that you're getting a vastly more powerful engine and a fast-shifting slushbox. In other words: a bargain.

Also: why not install crisper, more direct manual gearboxes in all BMW M cars ? The current M gearboxes are quite rubbery and lifeless, as if they belonged in a luxury car, not sporty one. Overall, not too bad, but the competition trounces them, and I find it hard to believe that BMW has no technical know-how to match the competition. They simply don't care to attract more manual gearbox enthusiasts.

Porsche 911 S: you don't get any discount when you opt for the manual transmission versus Porsche's best-in-business DCT. They both cost the same, which makes even a hardcore manual fan second-guess his/her decision. It feels like wasting one's money. Why not change this policy and simply pay more for the extra-complexity and utility of the DCT ?
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      06-24-2022, 08:41 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochie View Post
I don't know about that, BMW just opened a billion € R&D center to dedicated to only developing their next generation of all-electric & hybrid vehicles.

Not to mention that they have a fully-electric M5 with a 1000bhp to be release in just two years.

The writing is on the wall, BMW is currently in a transitionary period but by the following generation, all their vehicles will have an electric/hybrid drivetrain.
Yes all that is true, and they have to enter the EV space aggressively to catch up where they've fallen behind. but BMW is playing the long game here and being realistic about the ICE/EV transition instead of trying to make shortsighted headlines to boost their stock performance.

And if Germany, Italy, and some other countries have their way against the EU, some ICE models will continue to live on for the forseeable future, as it should be. A handful of new 911s, M cars, and Ferraris being produced annually isn't going to cause an environmental catastrophe.
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      06-24-2022, 08:43 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
Those companies are making short-sighted, greed-driven decisions to kill off manuals, and then hypocritically bemoan the inevitable outcome.

A few examples off the top of my head: BMW G80 Competition is just a few grand more than the base manual version. For that you're getting a vastly more powerful engine and a fast-shifting slushbox. In other words: a bargain.

Also: why not install crisper, more direct manual gearboxes in all BMW M cars ? The current M gearboxes are quite rubbery and lifeless, as if they belonged in a luxury car, not sporty one. Overall, not too bad, but the competition trounces them, and I find it hard to believe that BMW has no technical know-how to match the competition. They simply don't care to attract more manual gearbox enthusiasts.

Porsche 911 S: you don't get any discount when you opt for the manual transmission versus Porsche's best-in-business DCT. They both cost the same, which makes even a hardcore manual fan second-guess his/her decision. It feels like wasting one's money. Why not change this policy and simply pay more for the extra-complexity and utility of the DCT ?
There's a caveat to that. They do not cost the same comparably equipped. The manual comes with the Sport Chrono package for free. If you opt for DCT, you have to pay +/- $3k for the Sport Chrono package. So, in essence, the manual equipped car is cheaper than the DCT equipped car if comparably equipped (…and the majority of 911 owners opt for Sport Chrono).
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      06-24-2022, 08:50 PM   #57
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We also want the m3 wagon please
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      06-24-2022, 08:53 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
There's a caveat to that. They do not cost the same comparably equipped. The manual comes with the Sport Chrono package for free. If you opt for DCT, you have to pay +/- $3k for the Sport Chrono package. So, in essence, the manual equipped car is cheaper than the DCT equipped car if comparably equipped (and the majority of 911 owners opt for Sport Chrono).

Thanks for correcting me regarding 911 S. But the point still stands: there are multiple companies, including BMW, where you must unfairly pay the same regardless your transmission choice. This drives manual enthusiasts away, except the most dedicated ones.
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      06-24-2022, 08:56 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
There's a caveat to that. They do not cost the same comparably equipped. The manual comes with the Sport Chrono package for free. If you opt for DCT, you have to pay +/- $3k for the Sport Chrono package. So, in essence, the manual equipped car is cheaper than the DCT equipped car if comparably equipped (…and the majority of 911 owners opt for Sport Chrono).

Thanks for correcting me regarding 911 S. But the point still stands: there are multiple companies, including BMW, where you must unfairly pay the same regardless your transmission choice. This drives manual enthusiasts away, except the most dedicated ones.
I get what you're saying, but I personally wouldn't expect a discount for going with a manual. What I don't want is to be charged extra for a manual, which some manufacturers have done in the past.
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      06-24-2022, 08:57 PM   #60
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Unrelated: I would love the new M2 to look like that render, that looks the right amount of aggressive and modern
Last of the Mohican grilles!
Just realized that those HUGE grilles on the "other" models remind me of Elton John with those BIG goofy glasses!
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      06-24-2022, 10:00 PM   #61
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BMW owners in the US support manuals.

F80 M3 had a 30% take rate for the manual. M2 is 50%

Bravo BMW fans
Not exactly accurate on the F80 M3 MT numbers. They were actually lower and will be even lower for the G80/82. I'm impressed the M2 reached a 50% MT take-rate.

For the global production run, F80 was 15.6% MT (5426/34,677)
For the US production run, F80 was 28.3% MT (4548/16,057)

According to BMW's G80/82 M3/4 launch materials, they expect global M3/4 MT take rate will be:
G80 M3: 12%
G82 M4: 8%

Given these forecast percentages (and the chip-shortage/wire-harness shortage induced low production numbers for M3/4 model years 2021-2022 and beyond) perhaps <5000 MT G80 M3 will ever be produced globally!

See attached pics.
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      06-24-2022, 10:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
There's a caveat to that. They do not cost the same comparably equipped. The manual comes with the Sport Chrono package for free. If you opt for DCT, you have to pay +/- $3k for the Sport Chrono package. So, in essence, the manual equipped car is cheaper than the DCT equipped car if comparably equipped (…and the majority of 911 owners opt for Sport Chrono).

Thanks for correcting me regarding 911 S. But the point still stands: there are multiple companies, including BMW, where you must unfairly pay the same regardless your transmission choice. This drives manual enthusiasts away, except the most dedicated ones.
I get what you're saying, but I personally wouldn't expect a discount for going with a manual. What I don't want is to be charged extra for a manual, which some manufacturers have done in the past.
No, there won't be any up charges for the manual M2..

Some folks might not remember this but a little over ten years ago, all BMWs below a 5 series came standard with a manual transmission; you actually had to option order an automatic gearbox for an addition cost or else your car arrived with a clutch pedal - just as God intended.

I'm pretty sure parts wise, it cost BMW a fraction for the manual gearbox they been recycling since the "E" generation, over whatever is their latest automatic option, so there is no additional cost for them to pass along.

As far is the franchise dealers go, if it's anything like the shitshow the original M2 release was in 2016, expect to pay heavy markups for an G87, auto or manual, for at least the first three years of production. And if you don't want to pony up for their the absurd markups, there are like thirty other posers in line waiting to blindly hand their money over sticker. So, also budget for a giant tub of high-viscosity ass lube if you intend on snatching up an M2 right upon its initial release.



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      06-25-2022, 12:15 AM   #63
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The biggest problem I think is that BMW performance cars getting too big and too heavy and numb, it's not about manual or quick automatic nor how many wheels driven.
Should try to do what Porsche does while selling enough cars they still making those GT3 GT4s.

It's not about manuals.
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      06-25-2022, 12:37 AM   #64
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The biggest problem I think is that BMW performance cars getting too big and too heavy and numb, it's not about manual or quick automatic nor how many wheels driven.
Should try to do what Porsche does while selling enough cars they still making those GT3 GT4s.

It's not about manuals.
Yes and no. Just about every car out there is heavy. This has been a phenomenon that has taken place model year over model year for over a decade. BMW cannot play in Porsche territory nor play the same game Porsche plays (…sell a ton of SUV's to stay afloat and fund the 911 variants). It is untenable. BMW wouldn't last using that model because BMW's core buyer is different. BMW caters largely to a clientele that is not ready/prepared/inclined to spend Porsche 911 money. Those who can generally go to Porsche. BMW is well aware which lane they need to stay in to remain solvent. They are a high volume entry/mid-level luxury brand. Playing in Porsche land is a losing endeavor.
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      06-25-2022, 02:06 AM   #65
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It's fake news... how will this work w the partial hybrids or electrification?
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      06-25-2022, 02:09 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
I wish they had offered the M240i with a manual. I may have considered replacing my F22
They had (F22). You would have to wish they offered the current M240i with MT to consider replacement. You would have had to wish they would offer "at least" the next M2 with MT before you found out they would.

No, I'm not just picking on your tenses: you made me check F22 M240i was available in US with MT as well, unnecessarily. Here's some clarification of the "I wish they did/had/would" clause, if you like, of course : https://forum.wordreference.com/thre...would.2399896/.
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