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      07-04-2022, 07:49 AM   #441
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
S54 rod bearings can have a hugely variable life span, depending how the car is driven. If you don't go over 7500rpm, they will outlast the engine. If you're on track and bump your rev limiter to, say, 8600rpm (and use it), you'll be replacing them ever 20,000 miles.
I think proper warmup is a crucial element to S54 rod bearing lifespan as well. Don't jump on it until the oil temperature comes up.
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      07-04-2022, 08:10 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
I think proper warmup is a crucial element to S54 rod bearing lifespan as well. Don't jump on it until the oil temperature comes up.
Thatís how every ICEV should be treated.

Bringing this thread back around, one of my favorite things about the i3 is being able to get in it and romp on it immediately, instead of waiting for it to warm up.
The roads are me are spectacular, so itís frustrating to have a cold car when ICEVing.
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      07-04-2022, 09:05 AM   #443
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My brother in law swaps cars a lot. Had a few trucks, then a Genesis G80, then a Camaro SS until he decided he didn't like his gas bill. Traded that for a Model 3, says it's the best decision he has ever made and he LOVES it. 4 days after taking ownership, the seat recliner breaks, and the seat is stuck all the way forward. Just thought it was humorous as I've heard more horror stories with Tesla quality than just about any other manufacturer, including FCA.
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      07-04-2022, 10:12 AM   #444
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The E9X generation suffers from an excess of BMW trying to get too clever with electronics. Lesser equipped cars don't suffer as much from this. As much as I enjoy my 328i E93, it has far too much gadgetry.
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      07-04-2022, 11:28 AM   #445
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So, if we can get off the ///M train for a second. Having spent a decent amount of time with a variant of every non-M 3-Series from the E21 to the F30, I'd say the E90 was the last of the classic BMW 3-Series sports sedan, which most 3-Series aficionados describe as a rear-wheel drive chassis with a naturally aspirated in-line 6 engine and a manual transmission. The F30 did not drive like a 3-Series, the G20 is not offered with a manual in the US Market; both those cars went soft and lost focus, while the Cadillac ATS/CTS 4 captured the classic BMW 3-series driving dynamics.

Yet I don't think I ever claimed "the E90 was the pinnacle of BMW or the last good car they made" (that'd be the E86 Coupe...). But I think the E90 has a better base in-line 6 engine and a better suspension than the E46. While most young BMW enthusiasts wax on poetically about the E30 as the most reliable and durable 3-Series, I'd argue the E90 was even better. I have a combined 670,000 mile and 34-year seat/wrenching time with both. In my fleet at this moment, I have a variant of the E36, E46, and E90. I still say the E30 had the best suspension design and is still the most engaging to drive.
Agreed that e90 was the last (though not best) classic 3 series. This was accentuated by being followed up by the worst driving 3 series ever (F30).

Last NA engine, last HPS, last you could get without idrive, last where manual was available across the line, etc.

It may be (in NA trim) be the most reliable, but it also SUCKS to work on compared to earlier cars. We got rid of our e91 primarily because I couldnít stand working on it, and it just made me hate the car. First 3 series where they didnít feel like they designed it with serviceability in mind.
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      07-04-2022, 12:11 PM   #446
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Humm... S54 anyone?
S54 doesn't really have a rod bearing problem like S65 and S85. It did when it was launched before the recall, yes. I've seen S54s over 150k with original rod bearings. Does it wear them a little faster than a garden variety engine? Yes. Should you consider replacing them above 125k or something? Probably, depending on how it was driven.

S65 and S85 are far worse. Pretty much every engine is on borrowed time by 100k, and some never made it to 100k. Followed the threads for years and never seen a bearing pulled from one at high mileage that wasn't in horrific shape. It's not just the rod bearings, but also the main bearings in rare cases.
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      07-04-2022, 12:24 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So, if we can get off the ///M train for a second. Having spent a decent amount of time with a variant of every non-M 3-Series from the E21 to the F30, I'd say the E90 was the last of the classic BMW 3-Series sports sedan, which most 3-Series aficionados describe as a rear-wheel drive chassis with a naturally aspirated in-line 6 engine and a manual transmission. The F30 did not drive like a 3-Series, the G20 is not offered with a manual in the US Market; both those cars went soft and lost focus, while the Cadillac ATS/CTS 4 captured the classic BMW 3-series driving dynamics.

Yet I don't think I ever claimed "the E90 was the pinnacle of BMW or the last good car they made" (that'd be the E86 Coupe...). But I think the E90 has a better base in-line 6 engine and a better suspension than the E46. While most young BMW enthusiasts wax on poetically about the E30 as the most reliable and durable 3-Series, I'd argue the E90 was even better. I have a combined 670,000 mile and 34-year seat/wrenching time with both. In my fleet at this moment, I have a variant of the E36, E46, and E90. I still say the E30 had the best suspension design and is still the most engaging to drive.
I know what you mean about the E90 being the tipping point for change at least as far as the 3 series is concerned. I have to say I did prefer the E46 and even more the E36. Everyone has their preferences as to how modern they want a car to feel. Do you have to step up in the line now to get characteristics you would get in the base cars before? Yes. A lot of this is the EPS tuning.

To say that the E86 was the last good car they made is not something I can get onboard with, and I owned a Z4M. Maybe it was the best car they made in some respects, but last good car? I don't think so. Would I want an F30? Not really, but I have enjoyed the F80, F82, F22, and F87 and think they are good products.

Last edited by chris719; 07-04-2022 at 12:31 PM..
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      07-04-2022, 01:52 PM   #448
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Doesn't the E86 use electric power steering? I regret not buying one (Z4M), but it was cheaper to get a 240i at that point. Another F chassis' failure was it's beefy hydro bushings in their control arms, the EPS just amplifies the steering deadness.

EPS isn't an evil word, it just sucks when done poorly.
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      07-04-2022, 02:01 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
Doesn't the E86 use electric power steering? I regret not buying one (Z4M), but it was cheaper to get a 240i at that point. Another F chassis' failure was it's beefy hydro bushings in their control arms, the EPS just amplifies the steering deadness.

EPS isn't an evil word, it just sucks when done poorly.
100% of BMW's efforts in EPS have sucked.
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      07-04-2022, 03:26 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
Doesn't the E86 use electric power steering? I regret not buying one (Z4M), but it was cheaper to get a 240i at that point. Another F chassis' failure was it's beefy hydro bushings in their control arms, the EPS just amplifies the steering deadness.

EPS isn't an evil word, it just sucks when done poorly.
M versions of E85 and E86 use hydraulic.
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      07-04-2022, 03:53 PM   #451
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Now the serviceability part regarding the E90 I can't agree with. I do agree with it not being as easy as the E30 in some respects (like the heater core...) but I found the E90 suspension easier than an E30. 100,000-mile tune ups with the E90. The serp belt is easy as pie. Brakes are easy. Cooling system hoses are just fucking plain-ass stupid, but every BMW bast 2000 has the stupid hose connectors. Oil pan is a bit of a bitch. Valve cover is a bit more difficult, but the M20 was meant to be removed at 30,000-mile intervals. Coolant change on an E90? It doesn't get easier than bleeding with an electric water pump.

The E46 is just as much a PIA as the E90 is.
Ehhh, that's just not true

I had to drill and tap my own drain hole in the diff, because who wants to drain fluids.

No dip stick makes every oil change worse.

Most of the hardware that goes into the motor is one time use, so things like replacing the water pump means new all things.

Every project begins with a time consuming disassembly of the large plastic array above the engine.

The valve cover is plastic, so if you're not careful it cracks when removed after it gets brittle with heat/time.

800 times more control arms means every suspension project is a PITA.

Entire exhaust is one section, so any project where the exhaust needs to come out you have to take out everything from the headers back-- instead of just the piece in the way of your project.

Battery replacement needs a computer, and they last half as long for reasons unknown, even though the function of the battery programming is longer battery life.

TPMS sensors are only worse than the rotational based TPMS system used in the e46 (and e9X outside of the USA). They make wheels need a ton of weight to balance and require batteries. Plus you have to buy them.

Fuel filter is in the gas tank instead of accessible.

Rear main seal requires a special removal tool and 3 stage sealant instead of just... replacing it.

just things I'm remembering off the top of my head-- sold the car 6 years ago, so I'm sure I'm missing a ton of things than made me want to blow it up. I generally enjoy working on cars, but every time I did a project on that one I came in telling my wife it was time to sell it. Freaking miserable.
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      07-04-2022, 07:09 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Lol. Rear diff, I use a pneumatic oil extractor (every good shop has one). It sucks the diff dry in about 2 minutes. Cabin air filter uses 8 fasteners and takes about 3 minutes to remove once you've done it once. E46 has a similar set up. I will say the E90 cabin air filter housing could have been designed better.

Oil changes: drain the oil, suck out the residual in the OFH (using that dang pneumatic oil extractor), fill with 7 quarts... done. Fuel filter... it's lifetime, mine has filtered some 15,000 gallons of fuel.

The '06 N52 has a magnesium valve cover. I've not yet had to mess with my E86's plastic cover. I'll have to reserve judgement.

Why would you replace a rear crank seal if it is not leaking? 2006 -2008 have passive TPMS; no sensors. Later years can be reprogrammed to passive.

Exhaust... every 3-series I've owned has a headers-back exhaust.

Granted, E90 batteries are a PIA to replace and seem to go tits up early for being in the trunk. I'll give you that one.
Pneumatic fluid extrator is only functionally worse.

I was talking about the housing, that has to come off for almost every engine project— not the filter itself.

Lifetime filters are as desirable as lifetime fluids.

Just remembered another— bulbs that have to be accessed through the fender. Dumb.

I did the rear main seal because it was leaking.

Nice that early cars didn’t have plastic valve covers or tpms sensors. Too bad that situation only lasted two years, and were during the period e90s were disablingly ugly.

Last edited by Obioban; 07-05-2022 at 05:28 AM..
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      07-04-2022, 07:20 PM   #453
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Even if they do , I have made my money off of them. That stock was a cash cow!!🤑
wow! Didn't know this!
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      07-05-2022, 02:53 AM   #454
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So was I. The cabin airfilter is a two-piece housing. The upper housing is held in place by 4 screws on the cowl and two screws on the tabs of the upper housing. The lower housing is held by two screws. It lifts up and pulls away from the cowl. Really not that difficult nor time consuming.

The new M4, now that is disabling ugly. Lol.
The grille has grown on me seeing it in person. It wouldnít stop me from owning one, anyway. The main reason I bought my M2C instead of a base G80 manual is that the G80 is nearly an M5 now in size, and itís also too fast for the road. I have trouble remembering not to lose my license in the M2. With a full-tune S58 in G8x comp package it would be just a hammer you canít use unless youíre feeling lucky.

Since youíre a E86 owner, I donít think BMW is going to have much left for you. Even my M2C doesnít have that seating position or packaging of a true sports car. I am hoping to drive a Supra sometime but I passed on them because no manual. If the pandemic didnít throw a wrench into things Iíd have gotten a 997.2 C2S or 981 Cayman S and called it a day.

Iím actually looking forward to an electric Boxster. It could be awesome.
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      07-05-2022, 05:51 AM   #455
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The grille has grown on me seeing it in person. It wouldnít stop me from owning one, anyway. The main reason I bought my M2C instead of a base G80 manual is that the G80 is nearly an M5 now in size, and itís also too fast for the road. I have trouble remembering not to lose my license in the M2. With a full-tune S58 in G8x comp package it would be just a hammer you canít use unless youíre feeling lucky.

Since youíre a E86 owner, I donít think BMW is going to have much left for you. Even my M2C doesnít have that seating position or packaging of a true sports car. I am hoping to drive a Supra sometime but I passed on them because no manual. If the pandemic didnít throw a wrench into things Iíd have gotten a 997.2 C2S or 981 Cayman S and called it a day.

Iím actually looking forward to an electric Boxster. It could be awesome.
Interesting. This the first I've heard someone say they're excited for an electric P car.
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      07-05-2022, 07:29 AM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
The grille has grown on me seeing it in person. It wouldnít stop me from owning one, anyway. The main reason I bought my M2C instead of a base G80 manual is that the G80 is nearly an M5 now in size, and itís also too fast for the road. I have trouble remembering not to lose my license in the M2. With a full-tune S58 in G8x comp package it would be just a hammer you canít use unless youíre feeling lucky.

Since youíre a E86 owner, I donít think BMW is going to have much left for you. Even my M2C doesnít have that seating position or packaging of a true sports car. I am hoping to drive a Supra sometime but I passed on them because no manual. If the pandemic didnít throw a wrench into things Iíd have gotten a 997.2 C2S or 981 Cayman S and called it a day.

Iím actually looking forward to an electric Boxster. It could be awesome.
Pretty much anything past about 300 hp, falls in that category. About the only time you can use them in real life is blasting up an onramp and then shutting it down as you approach traffic.
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      07-05-2022, 10:24 AM   #457
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Pretty much anything past about 300 hp, falls in that category. About the only time you can use them in real life is blasting up an onramp and then shutting it down as you approach traffic.
That depends heavily on where one lives. I've gotten the tires on my Z4MC up to the greasy zone on public roads, and I was really only putting myself at risk while doing so.
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      07-05-2022, 10:39 AM   #458
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Pretty much anything past about 300 hp, falls in that category. About the only time you can use them in real life is blasting up an onramp and then shutting it down as you approach traffic.
Yeah, but there are levels. In my Z4M you could wind it out a bit longer and end up at 100 instead of 130 or 140 like you would be in a G80.
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      07-05-2022, 10:44 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Pretty much anything past about 300 hp, falls in that category. About the only time you can use them in real life is blasting up an onramp and then shutting it down as you approach traffic.
Yeah, but there are levels. In my Z4M you could wind it out a bit longer and end up at 100 instead of 130 or 140 like you would be in a G80.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
Interesting. This the first I've heard someone say they're excited for an electric P car.
I am not particularly excited about an electric 911, but I do think an electric roadster could be interesting. If the weight can be kept down enough, the very low center of gravity and torque could make for a fun car. It won't be a Spyder or GT4 experience with the engine, but it could be its own thing.
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      07-05-2022, 10:45 AM   #460
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I was going to jump out of this thread with all the subtle attemps at instults by one knucklehead in PA, but what the heck...

I got to thinking this morning, maybe I'll break out of my old-goat shell, drop the pending Bronco purchase and go electric. The Administration said last week basically FU about gas prices; so gas is just going to get jacked higher into a stronger forcing function to convert to EV. That's their asinine goal and they are sticking to it.

The mandatory EV Big Screen TV in the i4 is almost tolerable compared to the E-Stang, Tesla, and others. But FFS while everyone else goes muted grille on their EVs to indicate it doesn't need to be a mouth-breathng dragon to cool the earth-killing engine, BMW puts the prevailing grotesquely ugly beaver face on the i4 when it really needs no grille at all; LOL. If one can get the $7,500 tax credit, the entry price can be tolerable. The real-world 4-season range is probably 250 miles for the i40. With my commuting needs as it sits now, replacing the E90 with an i40 could fill the spot. I do wish it was a true sedan and not a giant hatchback.

Maybe I'll go drive one just out of curiosity...
Meh.

Converted ICEV platforms only get half the benefit of going EV.

The other half (getting S class interior space in an E class sized car-- E.g. the model S can have 3 seat rows AND a FRUNK) they miss out on completely.

i4 is not a bespoke EV platform, and therefore missing half the benefit IMO.

... and it's almost 4700 lbs(!)

Also, assuming you meant me, not sure what I said you thought was insulting...
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      07-05-2022, 10:48 AM   #461
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Meh.

Converted ICEV platforms only get half the benefit of going EV.

The other half (getting S class interior space in an E class sized car-- E.g. the model S can have 3 seat rows AND a FRUNK) they miss out on completely.

i4 is not a bespoke EV platform, and therefore missing half the benefit IMO.

... and it's almost 4700 lbs(!)
I sort of agree. I'm sure it drives well, but right now given the charging network and bespoke platform, I would have trouble convincing myself to get an EV that isn't a Tesla. Problem is, I don't really want a Tesla.
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      07-05-2022, 12:00 PM   #462
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I sort of agree. I'm sure it drives well, but right now given the charging network and bespoke platform, I would have trouble convincing myself to get an EV that isn't a Tesla. Problem is, I don't really want a Tesla.
Assuming you can charge at home, the charging network is really only something you worry about before you own an EV. It's fine, and also almost never comes up (if you can charge at home).

For me, the EV to beat is the Lucid Air. It is the only car (so far) that is good dynamically (fun fact: e39 M5 was their dynamics target, and a significant number of the engineering team personally owns e39 M5s) AND takes advantage of EV packaging benefits (S class interior space in an E class sized car).

When they release it with a smaller battery (lighter, more back seat leg room, cheaper, 500 miles of range is silly), it's probably in my future.
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