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      03-06-2019, 06:46 AM   #1
GeorgeBMR
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F20 116i vs 118i differences (especially turbo)

Hello F20 addicts, since the discussion in the other thread was offtopic, I will quote those posts here regarding the hardware differences between the 116i and 118i. It is known that the exhaust is different and also the oil cooler is missing from the 116i. However if anyone has info about the turbo (and possibly other major parts) being different, either on all cars or just on some, please let us know.


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Originally Posted by No one View Post
I heard that regarding PSA version of the joint project Prince engine (the top Peugeot RCZ 200 bhp, in particular?). Rumours. You can compare part numbers. Here, for instance: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/select. I recall somebody shared (on a local forum) he had done this and the list provided above should be complete. FWIW

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeBMR View Post
Pistons have the same code between 116i and 118i. Also injectors and HPFP.

However 116i turbo has a different code from the 118i, but same as 114i. Weight is slightly different at ~70g. Any idea about this ? Is it actually a different turbo, or maybe just some different minor parts (orings, manifolds etc.) ?

114i
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5018
116i
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5018
118i
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5018

or

116i
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5018
118i
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=11_5018


Edit: I have searched for both codes from BMW, 11627643719 and 11627643717, and they appear on specifications for the same turbo (here, here or here), Garrett Turbo P/N: 819997-5001S GT15, Model MGT1549ZDL. So maybe the same basic part after all ? Does anyone know more ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeBMR View Post
I saw on a russian board that apparently some 116i have smaller turbos, although they are supposedly very few. Does anyone know about this ? Maybe someone from Russia could translate the important parts, some are not clear about production years and other ways to identify the cars:

https://www.drive2.com/l/3953196/
https://www.drive2.com/l/3631987/

Last edited by GeorgeBMR; 03-06-2019 at 06:52 AM..
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      03-06-2019, 07:06 AM   #2
ovekvam
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From what I have seen, tuners get the same power from the 114i as the 118i, which should indicate that the turbo has the same properties. Maybe it is just a slightly different version to match the bigger exhaust system?
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      03-06-2019, 08:04 AM   #3
GeorgeBMR
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That's what I was thinking too and it's probably (hopefully ) true for most cars. However those russians are saying that some 114i and 116i, just a few but still some of them actually have smaller turbos. I have talked to several tuners lately and one of them also said he heard about this, so it might be some truth to it. It's not clear if these are limited to some production years or if there are other criteria for indentifying them. If anyone encountered this maybe they could let us know.
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      03-06-2019, 08:53 AM   #4
Y20DTH
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Apart from a hypothetical different turbo, when remapping the oil cooler is a key component as well. My 116i in a trackday reaches 125 of oil temperature, which as far as I now is quite high.

Imagine being remapped to 210hp-ish without an oil cooler... That's what stops me from getting it tuned, not any other component difference.
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      03-06-2019, 08:58 AM   #5
ovekvam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y20DTH View Post
Apart from a hypothetical different turbo, when remapping the oil cooler is a key component as well. My 116i in a trackday reaches 125 of oil temperature, which as far as I now is quite high.

Imagine being remapped to 210hp-ish without an oil cooler... That's what stops me from getting it tuned, not any other component difference.
Or you could install an oil cooler while getting it tuned.

I also do track days, and prefer not to tune my cars. Most other people tune their cars without really using the power potential.
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      03-06-2019, 09:38 AM   #6
GeorgeBMR
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The missing oil cooler as well as the 2" exhaust on the 116i are well known hardware differences. A bigger intercooler is also recommended before tuning and has been discussed in other threads (a cheap option seems to be the stock M135i). What is not clear is whether there are (some) 116i/114i driving around with smaller turbos
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      03-06-2019, 09:57 AM   #7
Y20DTH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
Or you could install an oil cooler while getting it tuned.

I also do track days, and prefer not to tune my cars. Most other people tune their cars without really using the power potential.
Sure, that's part of the reason why I'm not tuning the car. Installing an oil cooler is not cheap at all.
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      03-07-2019, 04:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y20DTH View Post
My 116i in a trackday reaches 125 of oil temperature, which as far as I now is quite high.
Well, it's not that I am interested in tuning or supervising(/competing with ) BMW engineers. Yet, "as far as I know" tempts for a bit of distinct definition. It's not to feed incompetent judgement/decisions, just to share some information I appear to have very little other use for.

I have like a BMW N13 (of June, 2011) technical training brochure (non-English) downloaded from a local site - FWIW! It says the following.

Three temperature regimes are supported:
  • 109 C - economy;
  • 106 C - normal;
  • 80 C - high.

The cooling system allows higher temperature to save fuel due to lower friction in the economy mode and maintains lower operating temperature for higher torque due to higher repletion in the high mode. (The "driving experience" switch is not mentioned. "Dynamic indicators"-based recognition of the driver's wish is.)

System protection:
  1. Parts protection:
    • Coolant temperature is 117 C or higher;
    • Oil temperature is 143 C or higher.

    Measures taken: for example, cabin cooling and engine power reduction.

  2. Emergency:
    • Coolant temperature is 122 C or higher;
    • Oil temperature is 151 C or higher.

    Measures taken: for example, engine power reduction (to 90% approx.).
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      03-07-2019, 04:21 PM   #9
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I personally don't recommend tuning N13 engine unless you go stage 2+ (upgrading turbo, cooling system , maybe consider hybrid turbo etc) . it reaches oil temperatures of 110 C even when it is stock. That's more than enough to strain the engine and its parts.
There is a reason why they prefer to produce their own three-four cylinder compact engines. PSA engine is a success by means of power output and fuel consumption however, it's been struggling with various problems since the beginning especially when it is tuned.
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      03-07-2019, 04:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eray View Post
PSA engine is a success by means of power output and fuel consumption however, it's been struggling with various problems since the beginning especially when it is tuned.
PSA Prince engine was a complete, notorious total disaster! It nearly killed the company (may be it should have, after all - failing here too ). With that said, choosing N13 looked rather risky even after one and a half years of no complaint. I am happy it's all right, pretty much trouble free - BMW charged the premium for a reason here. Even those who were brave/stupid enough to tune it up don't cry in public. But I would never consider tuning at least because of the PSA "warning".
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      03-07-2019, 05:49 PM   #11
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Can you link to known problems / failure cases of the N13 engine when tuned, if the oil cooler and a larger intercooler were also installed ?

Edit: Here is a thread with many tuned N13 cars, Stage 1 and 2, some stock hardware, some with intercooler and some with the oil cooler as well. Only one case of failure in all of them (Slyly Stage 2) and he did not mention an oil/intercooler anywhere.

Last edited by GeorgeBMR; 03-07-2019 at 06:38 PM..
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      03-08-2019, 02:04 AM   #12
Y20DTH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No one View Post
Well, it's not that I am interested in tuning or supervising(/competing with ) BMW engineers. Yet, "as far as I know" tempts for a bit of distinct definition. It's not to feed incompetent judgement/decisions, just to share some information I appear to have very little other use for.

I have like a BMW N13 (of June, 2011) technical training brochure (non-English) downloaded from a local site - FWIW! It says the following.

Three temperature regimes are supported:
  • 109 C - economy;
  • 106 C - normal;
  • 80 C - high.

The cooling system allows higher temperature to save fuel due to lower friction in the economy mode and maintains lower operating temperature for higher torque due to higher repletion in the high mode. (The "driving experience" switch is not mentioned. "Dynamic indicators"-based recognition of the driver's wish is.)

System protection:
  1. Parts protection:
    • Coolant temperature is 117 C or higher;
    • Oil temperature is 143 C or higher.

    Measures taken: for example, cabin cooling and engine power reduction.

  2. Emergency:
    • Coolant temperature is 122 C or higher;
    • Oil temperature is 151 C or higher.

    Measures taken: for example, engine power reduction (to 90% approx.).
Thanks for the info! I read in other forums 125 was quite high, but nothing "official". What would be interesting to know is the temperature limit of the oil before starting to lose performance. I will share it if find it.
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      03-08-2019, 05:24 AM   #13
jabugui
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Three temperature regimes are supported:
109 C - economy;
106 C - normal;
80 C - high.

I wonder if this remains the same at high revs S/M gear lever (above 2000rpm) and or in DSCoff mode.

I don't think its a problem as far as you don't track the car in summer, or if you push like if you had a race car (makes no sense with road brakes, tyres, suspension, etc)
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      03-09-2019, 03:26 PM   #14
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Hello there,
As a owner of a 2014 F20 114i i can confirm that the oil temp will reach a temp of 123 C STOCK with normal driving (120km/h) on Belgian highway.
Checked temp in secret hidden menu in car.
That same day i went to my tuner for a stage 1 remap and on my way back under normal driving speeds the oil temp was the same.
Just my 2 cents


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      03-09-2019, 09:28 PM   #15
GeorgeBMR
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Does it reach different max temperatures with different driving modes (Sport/Comfort/Eco) ?

Oh, and does anyone have any info about the potential differences in turbos between 114/116 and 118i, which is the main topic of the thread ?
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