BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > BMW M2 May Feature Smaller Less Powerful Engine (Turbo 4) Than 1M Coupe? Discuss
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-11-2012, 03:17 PM   #89
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10775
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I'd lay odds on the M2 having a twin-turbo 4 cyl engine....and being very light.

The forthcoming AMG version of the new A-Class is going to have a tuned 2.0L 4 cyl turbo engine......reputably with around 330hp and 300lbs/ft....as well as a Haldex awd system.

......"The A45 AMG is powered by a heavily revised version of the 2.0-litre turbo four that lesser A Classes will use, AMG's big guns assured us that the A45 will a) have the highest specific output of ANY car, eclipsing even the McLaren 12C, which points to around 330bhp b) more than 300lb ft of torques and c) will sound ruddy marvellous, despite its cylinder deficit. Over to Fritz Eichler, AMG's head of powertrain. ‘The sound our cars make is hugely important, we know that. Which is why I've said to my guys, "I want this thing to sound like a Rory Gallagher guitar solo".' This is our sort of analogy........"

I saw that car at the DTM race at the Norisring last weekend... it was junk. Maybe they will have a 330 Hp engine... but the rep from MB said the top engine is 210 Hp and sells for 50K euros! Base price is 27K I think he said. I was shocked they were asking that much. And 210 Hp was a joke for that kind of money. That new A-class looks a whole lot better in pics then in real life! I was NOT impressed!

Name:  DSC_0347.jpg
Views: 4328
Size:  303.8 KB

Name:  DSC_0341.jpg
Views: 4067
Size:  294.6 KB

Name:  DSC_0348.jpg
Views: 3705
Size:  244.7 KB

Name:  DSC_0357.jpg
Views: 4560
Size:  257.3 KB
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #90
GeeRam
Major
GeeRam's Avatar
United Kingdom
197
Rep
1,317
Posts

Drives: X5 40d SE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Berkshire,UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I saw that car at the DTM race at the Norisring last weekend... it was junk. Maybe they will have a 330 Hp engine... but the rep from MB said the top engine is 210 Hp and sells for 50K euros!
AMG version hasn't been released yet (next year I think) although I believe a few likely AMG version test mules have been spotted around and about in camo markings.

Not surprised you thought it's junk....MB stopped making good cars years ago
__________________
2017 X5 4.0dSE ~ Atlas Cedar:Ind.Amaro Brown Merino&Piano Blk, Sport Auto, DHP, Comfort seats, Cold weather pack, HK audio, Electric towbar, Sun protection glass.
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2012, 03:35 PM   #91
firechicken99
Major
33
Rep
1,035
Posts

Drives: Black '07 335i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
... That new A-class looks a whole lot better in pics then in real life! I was NOT impressed!
...

No to sound like a typical 1Addict but.....

Appreciate 0
      07-11-2012, 10:31 PM   #92
///M1
Brigadier General
///M1's Avatar
United_States
279
Rep
3,164
Posts

Drives: Many
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North of 7K RPM

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I saw that car at the DTM race at the Norisring last weekend... it was junk. Maybe they will have a 330 Hp engine... but the rep from MB said the top engine is 210 Hp and sells for 50K euros! Base price is 27K I think he said. I was shocked they were asking that much. And 210 Hp was a joke for that kind of money. That new A-class looks a whole lot better in pics then in real life! I was NOT impressed!
And the A-Klasse concept during last yr's NYIAS looked so promising...

Some pics I took here:
__________________
2011 BMW E82 1///M: AW, all options; Renntech, Akrapovic, Forge, P3, RevoZ CF bits, many mods
1988 BMW E30 M3: Hennarot, S14, stock
2018 Porsche 991.2 GT3: PtS, CXX, LWBS, PCCB
1998 Porsche 993 C4S: Zenith Blue, last aircooled widebody, Bilstein PSS10, Fister II + Fabspeed exhaust
2008 Audi B7 RS 4: Sprint Blue, Audi Exclusive Euro Bucket Interior, Premium+Titanium, many mods
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2012, 10:37 PM   #93
Papethova
Banned
231
Rep
3,094
Posts

Drives: '08 135/ '11 1M
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: at Death Valley 127

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M1 View Post
And the A-Klasse concept during last yr's NYIAS looked so promising...

Some pics I took here:
No pics T
Appreciate 0
      07-11-2012, 10:40 PM   #94
///M1
Brigadier General
///M1's Avatar
United_States
279
Rep
3,164
Posts

Drives: Many
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North of 7K RPM

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papethova View Post
No pics T
Oooops, sorry, forgot to include the thread where I had posted, sorry guys:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=NYIAS+concept
__________________
2011 BMW E82 1///M: AW, all options; Renntech, Akrapovic, Forge, P3, RevoZ CF bits, many mods
1988 BMW E30 M3: Hennarot, S14, stock
2018 Porsche 991.2 GT3: PtS, CXX, LWBS, PCCB
1998 Porsche 993 C4S: Zenith Blue, last aircooled widebody, Bilstein PSS10, Fister II + Fabspeed exhaust
2008 Audi B7 RS 4: Sprint Blue, Audi Exclusive Euro Bucket Interior, Premium+Titanium, many mods
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2012, 05:26 PM   #95
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
5385
Rep
5,824
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

Lets get a few things correct first of all.

Something that must be known is that despite "enthusiasts" and media reaction to the BMW X5M and X6M. Both cars are one of M's most successful models to date , in strategic growth markets such as Russia , China , Brazil and the Middle East , these XM models outsell the BMW M3 even by considerable margin.
To M. Both X5M and X6M are "volume" models because they sell in numbers and generate numbers. NO ONE has lost their position because of the X5M and X6M. If you really want to know...
The Father of the X5M and X6M currently is the CEO of BMW North America and one of Norbert Reithofers trusted lieutenants.
He is also responsible for the conception of the BMW M5 and its originally planned reworked V10. The BMW M5 was finalised under Dr. Kay Segler who is mainly responsible for the current M6 Coupe and Cabrio and BMW 1M Coupe.
Segler also commenced the M Performance models and conception of the BMW M3/M4 and started initial gestation of the BMW X4M.

Dr.Segler returned to MINI in order to create the MINI Cooper S JCW GP.
A MINI that is more about substance than style.

Yes that is right , BMW X4M. The upcoming Sport Activity Coupe for the mid-level segment is to get the M treatment , because it has potential to capture more of the market than the X6M. Demand from the X6M is still strong and the overall concept has spurned BMW's competitors in creating alternative options. BMW see the car that will provide the market with this challenge is the Porsche Macan, as they will be similar models with one goal.
X4M will take the reworked six-cylinder engine from the upcoming M3 but engineers aim to make the X4M more a renowned dynamic challenger and will be investing engineering in the dynamics , more relevant updated torque vectoring control and reworked dampers aimed at making the X4M a formidable force to be reckoned with.

To say the 1M was "cannibalizing" M3 sales fail to understand the intention of the "entry" M. 1M owners and first time M owners I have talked to on our German "adventures" tell me they could not afford the M3 in the first place.
That was the 1M's greatest advantage - Price.

The same formula is carried over for the M2, it will be basically be everything on the level of the first car , but will be lighter. Expect another parts-bin sharing with the next M3 but that will be an advantage once again.
The greater advantage for the M2 is time. Development has begun and there is opportunity for progress after standard models.
BMW M. are looking at initial standard models then follow-through performance editions later aimed at a more hardcore audience than the standard quasi-luxury M buyer.

Engine choice is seen as an Four cylinder logically for the M2 because of the six cylinder in the M3 M4 and X4M. But if costs come into effect a detuned
N55 could be possible. The N20 based Four is being bench-tested, watch out for still disguised M135i's.
To understand the intention of the next M2 the development budget and time frame is greater than the eighteen months for the 1M Coupe but considering the time frame and resources you did get a highly memorable car that there is no denying.
Chassis engineering is very much the defining factor for an M. If the base car is exceptional to drive then you have a good platform to build on , if you only have an average chassis then you lose that advantage. You only have to look at why Audi's latest performance models the Audi SQ5 and RS4 have barely registered in the precision category. If you look at the BMW X3, 3er and indeed the BMW M135i then you know the plaudits will provide a good platform on which to build. You just know that the next generation of BMW M3 , X4M and M2 will be exceptional.
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2012, 12:45 AM   #96
aajami
Brigadier General
aajami's Avatar
United_States
436
Rep
4,567
Posts

Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Lets get a few things correct first of all.

Something that must be known is that despite "enthusiasts" and media reaction to the BMW X5M and X6M. Both cars are one of M's most successful models to date , in strategic growth markets such as Russia , China , Brazil and the Middle East , these XM models outsell the BMW M3 even by considerable margin.
To M. Both X5M and X6M are "volume" models because they sell in numbers and generate numbers. NO ONE has lost their position because of the X5M and X6M. If you really want to know...
The Father of the X5M and X6M currently is the CEO of BMW North America and one of Norbert Reithofers trusted lieutenants.
He is also responsible for the conception of the BMW M5 and its originally planned reworked V10. The BMW M5 was finalised under Dr. Kay Segler who is mainly responsible for the current M6 Coupe and Cabrio and BMW 1M Coupe.
Segler also commenced the M Performance models and conception of the BMW M3/M4 and started initial gestation of the BMW X4M.

Dr.Segler returned to MINI in order to create the MINI Cooper S JCW GP.
A MINI that is more about substance than style.

Yes that is right , BMW X4M. The upcoming Sport Activity Coupe for the mid-level segment is to get the M treatment , because it has potential to capture more of the market than the X6M. Demand from the X6M is still strong and the overall concept has spurned BMW's competitors in creating alternative options. BMW see the car that will provide the market with this challenge is the Porsche Macan, as they will be similar models with one goal.
X4M will take the reworked six-cylinder engine from the upcoming M3 but engineers aim to make the X4M more a renowned dynamic challenger and will be investing engineering in the dynamics , more relevant updated torque vectoring control and reworked dampers aimed at making the X4M a formidable force to be reckoned with.

To say the 1M was "cannibalizing" M3 sales fail to understand the intention of the "entry" M. 1M owners and first time M owners I have talked to on our German "adventures" tell me they could not afford the M3 in the first place.
That was the 1M's greatest advantage - Price.

The same formula is carried over for the M2, it will be basically be everything on the level of the first car , but will be lighter. Expect another parts-bin sharing with the next M3 but that will be an advantage once again.
The greater advantage for the M2 is time. Development has begun and there is opportunity for progress after standard models.
BMW M. are looking at initial standard models then follow-through performance editions later aimed at a more hardcore audience than the standard quasi-luxury M buyer.

Engine choice is seen as an Four cylinder logically for the M2 because of the six cylinder in the M3 M4 and X4M. But if costs come into effect a detuned
N55 could be possible. The N20 based Four is being bench-tested, watch out for still disguised M135i's.
To understand the intention of the next M2 the development budget and time frame is greater than the eighteen months for the 1M Coupe but considering the time frame and resources you did get a highly memorable car that there is no denying.
Chassis engineering is very much the defining factor for an M. If the base car is exceptional to drive then you have a good platform to build on , if you only have an average chassis then you lose that advantage. You only have to look at why Audi's latest performance models the Audi SQ5 and RS4 have barely registered in the precision category. If you look at the BMW X3, 3er and indeed the BMW M135i then you know the plaudits will provide a good platform on which to build. You just know that the next generation of BMW M3 , X4M and M2 will be exceptional.

Thanks for the insight, as always, Scott.

I'm not surprised that the BMW of 2012 would greenlight an X4M, especially given the apparent news of the X3M's cancellation. For what it's worth, an M version of an X4 makes more sense than an X3, even though I will still argue that an M badge doesn't belong on any SUV, no matter its shape.

I'm definitely looking forward to the more enthusiast versions of the M2, M3, and M4, though I wish BMW will bring them to market as close to the "quasi-luxury" standard versions as possible. I have to assume that your most hardcore buyers are early adopters, and speaking for myself, I want to minimize the wait of getting the more focused performance model, especially if the standard ones are already out and about on the street. Additionally, I wouldn't want the wait for the focused models to be so long that the F8X replacements are right around the corner.

I know it's speculative at this point, but do you anticipate the F86 to get a standard quasi-luxury version as well as a more focused version?
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | JPN 240 ECU flash | Euro LCI taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2012, 02:13 PM   #97
GeeRam
Major
GeeRam's Avatar
United Kingdom
197
Rep
1,317
Posts

Drives: X5 40d SE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Berkshire,UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
even though I will still argue that an M badge doesn't belong on any SUV, no matter its shape.
I would agree with that too, unless it was a 'proper' off-road capable vehicle with decent cross-axle articulation, ride height and locking diffs etc.,etc. and not some poncy blinged up drug dealer vehicle.

The M in ///M means motorsport not monstrosity......
__________________
2017 X5 4.0dSE ~ Atlas Cedar:Ind.Amaro Brown Merino&Piano Blk, Sport Auto, DHP, Comfort seats, Cold weather pack, HK audio, Electric towbar, Sun protection glass.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2012, 02:50 PM   #98
smw356
Private
2
Rep
79
Posts

Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ohio

iTrader: (0)

Well to be fair all of the bmw suv's not just the M versions are pretty much monstrosities. I mean its not like they actually work offroad.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2012, 10:46 PM   #99
robertm
Major
452
Rep
1,358
Posts

Drives: 2020 M2 Comp
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: dfw

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smw356 View Post
Well to be fair all of the bmw suv's not just the M versions are pretty much monstrosities. I mean its not like they actually work offroad.
From what do you base this conclusion? Have you ever taken one off road? I think you would be absolutely shocked at just how hugely capable the x5 is off the tarmac.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2012, 11:26 PM   #100
NPVPositive
Lieutenant
NPVPositive's Avatar
Australia
54
Rep
443
Posts

Drives: BMW 1M
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertm View Post
From what do you base this conclusion? Have you ever taken one off road? I think you would be absolutely shocked at just how hugely capable the x5 is off the tarmac.
Don't agree. I have taken the X5 off road with a Land Rover Discovery 4 (LR4). The X5 wasn't even close in capability.

When they launched the X5, BMW coined the term "Sports Activity Vehicle." There was a reason. No low range gearing, no locking diff. BMW intended the X5 to be a great school run vehicle, rainy day vehicle, light snow vehicle. Yes, it can handle mild off roading in a capable way, but let's not pretend it's a Land Rover.

And then there's the X6 . ..
__________________
"This is a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant car. And that's all really I've got to say. The end."

Clarkson on the 1M

Last edited by NPVPositive; 07-16-2012 at 11:43 PM..
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2012, 02:03 AM   #101
firechicken99
Major
33
Rep
1,035
Posts

Drives: Black '07 335i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPVPositive View Post

And then there's the X6 . ..
lmaooooo
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2012, 09:21 AM   #102
as7920
Colonel
as7920's Avatar
United Kingdom
622
Rep
2,395
Posts

Drives: 2023 SG/FR M4 xDrive Competiti
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NPVPositive View Post
And then there's the X6 . ..
And don't forget the X3:

Appreciate 0
      07-17-2012, 12:58 PM   #103
nachob
Brigadier General
United_States
2345
Rep
4,347
Posts

Drives: 2004 330i ZHP, 2022 Cayman T
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: California

iTrader: (5)

Gentlemen, Whatever anyone thinks about the X cars , they never should've been given an ///M badge.... Period. This sort of stuff is what is killing the ///M. Yes they are selling well but eventually M will mean 5000 lb, high drag, high CG rolling luxury arcades. That is why I remain hopeful but skeptical about how good or focused the M2 will be.... Which is what the thread is about .
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2012, 01:51 PM   #104
Dackelone
European Editor
Dackelone's Avatar
Germany
10775
Rep
22,992
Posts

Drives: N54 e82
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bayern, Germany

iTrader: (1)

Getting back on track... I heard that the current e92/93 M3 will continue until June 2013. Any thoughts?
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2012, 02:07 PM   #105
GeeRam
Major
GeeRam's Avatar
United Kingdom
197
Rep
1,317
Posts

Drives: X5 40d SE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Berkshire,UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Gentlemen, Whatever anyone thinks about the X cars , they never should've been given an ///M badge.... Period. This sort of stuff is what is killing the ///M.
Absolutely agree.

Putting a ///M badge on the X5 and X5 etc is selling ///M down the river (regardless of the corporate mumbo jumbo coming from within BMW about China sales and crap like that)
BMW could have easily created a new upmarket brand moniker for all that softroader dross instead of prostituting the ///M brand.
__________________
2017 X5 4.0dSE ~ Atlas Cedar:Ind.Amaro Brown Merino&Piano Blk, Sport Auto, DHP, Comfort seats, Cold weather pack, HK audio, Electric towbar, Sun protection glass.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2012, 02:14 PM   #106
LOVEM
Major
United_States
89
Rep
1,085
Posts

Drives: 2011 1m VO
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Getting back on track... I heard that the current e92/93 M3 will continue until June 2013. Any thoughts?
YES ITS TRUE. per my dealer you can order through june 2013 . one of the last ones to be build.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2012, 02:31 PM   #107
Artemis
Moderator
Artemis's Avatar
31994
Rep
13,323
Posts

Drives: BMW M2C - BMW X1
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
New Merc A
Don't rule this AMG dwarf out too quickly. There's a market for powerful nimble cars.

Merc A25 AMG thread of last March: http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668203

Name:  Mercedes_A_Class_AMG_a.jpg
Views: 12999
Size:  59.5 KB
Name:  Mercedes_A_Class_AMG.jpg
Views: 6807
Size:  56.8 KB
Name:  Mercedes_A_Class_AMG_2.jpg
Views: 10027
Size:  226.5 KB
Name:  Mercedes_A_Class_AMG_3.jpg
Views: 4079
Size:  134.4 KB
__________________
///M is art Artemis
Appreciate 0
      08-03-2012, 01:17 PM   #108
pkimM3r
Banned
pkimM3r's Avatar
215
Rep
7,298
Posts

Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnizu View Post
You should find a STi with a catless downpipe and see if your opinion of 4 cylinder's exhaust note changes. The Subaru rumble is in my opinion an amazing exhaust note, rivaled only by the old big block v8s and the modern V12.
+1 .... my old evo ix mr with e85 upgrades and cams putting down 450/420 to all 4 wheels was not too shabby for an ole 4 banger. that was an 11 sec car with 4 passengers. LOL

but if you are talking in terms of just pulling hard at high speeds, yes eventually the 4 cylinder would start to die down.
Appreciate 0
      08-03-2012, 01:35 PM   #109
SoCali E36
BMW Client Advisor
SoCali E36's Avatar
United_States
1089
Rep
3,538
Posts

Drives: X5 40e/e36 M3 Sedan
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Where the road takes me...

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simsims View Post
tbh, 4 bangers suck.

not saying they don't perform, but they just sound weird
Yeah, those Group A E30 M3 4 banger engines really sucked.....and sounded weird

This sounds OK to my ears
I wish I was in the passenger seat
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-03-2012, 02:08 PM   #110
Qunadry
First Lieutenant
United_States
31
Rep
388
Posts

Drives: 2012 135i
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northeast

iTrader: (0)

I'll be keeping my 2012 135i for a long, long time. Glad I bought it when I did instead of waiting for the next generation.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2-series, 2014 bmw m2, 2014 m2, 2015 bmw m2, 2015 bmw m2 coupe, 2015 m2, 2015 m2 coupe, 2016 bmw m2, 2016 bmw m2 coupe, 2016 m2, 2016 m2 coupe, bmw 2 series, bmw 2 series coupe, bmw 2-series forum, bmw m2, bmw m2 coupe, bmw m2 coupe forum, bmw m2 forum, bmw m2 forums, bmw m2 news, bmw m2 rumors, m2 coupe, m2 coupe forum, m2 coupe forums, m2 forum, m2 forums, m2 news, m2 rumors

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 PM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST