[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Come on, man. Really?

Going 170 on DRAG SLICKS with a brand new brake kit on lap 2?

I'd smack the crap out of my track buddies for saying they were going to do that on a new set of PADS, let alone a new set of rotors, calipers, and pads. And I'd do it to keep them ALIVE because I care about them.

This decision making process was BAD BAD BAD. Staged? Maybe. I hope somebody on track doesn't have that bad of judgement. I don't wanna share the track with them if they do.

Shawn

Apparently, you missed the part where he said he went through the bedding process and all the things you all accuse him of not doing in his follow up video. From what I can tell, his mistake was not flushing all of the DOT 3 fluid out and he has owned up to that.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Apparently, you missed the part where he said he went through the bedding process and all the things you all accuse him of not doing in his follow up video. From what I can tell, his mistake was not flushing all of the DOT 3 fluid out and he has owned up to that.

On that you on the surface have a point.

But there is bedding brakes on the street, and bedding them on the track. I have followed perfectly the street bedding process from many OEM manufacturers. The minute you read the bedding process for track pads, they adjust the speeds up a lot. Track brakes aren't beeded until you see some ash along the edge of the pads.

But the other stuff I stick hard to. Drag slicks on lap two at 170? No one does that safely. And they didn't here either. You gotta warm up the tires. And drag slicks have no place on a road course. They just aren't suited.

One could say "don't pick apart this guy", but for track safety, it's every little point we need. One mistake can be lethal or near lethal, as you see here.

Shawn

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

On that you on the surface have a point.

But there is bedding brakes on the street, and bedding them on the track. I have followed perfectly the street bedding process from many OEM manufacturers. The minute you read the bedding process for track pads, they adjust the speeds up a lot. Track brakes aren't beeded until you see some ash along the edge of the pads.

But the other stuff I stick hard to. Drag slicks on lap two at 170? No one does that safely. And they didn't here either. You gotta warm up the tires. And drag slicks have no place on a road course. They just aren't suited.

One could say "don't pick apart this guy", but for track safety, it's every little point we need. One mistake can be lethal or near lethal, as you see here.

Shawn

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. He's posted video snippets of him doing track days other sports cars. So he's not a rank rookie with this one being his first.

He also said in his follow up video that he was the only car out because everyone was packing it up for the day. He even said he was hoping someone saw him wreck as it would have sucked for him to walk back with his injuries.

People are so quick to beat up someone that so far has not blamed anyone else but himself for this. He's not crying about losing $170k on this car and opening up a Go Fund Me. He's answered ever dig he's received online.

I was at VIR a couple of months ago. A very fast and experienced rider crashed twice there. Both in the same corner. Some think he was just pushing too hard into the corner. I'm thinking the same with some lapse in judgement. Not taking away from his abilities as he's way faster than me.

People make mistakes. Even the best of us. The first one that has been on track that is Mr. Clean with no incidents due to lack of judgement, I'll call BS on.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. He's posted video snippets of him doing track days other sports cars. So he's not a rank rookie with this one being his first.

He also said in his follow up video that he was the only car out because everyone was packing it up for the day. He even said he was hoping someone saw him wreck as it would have sucked for him to walk back with his injuries.

People are so quick to beat up someone that so far has not blamed anyone else but himself for this. He's not crying about losing $170k on this car and opening up a Go Fund Me. He's answered ever dig he's received online.

I was at VIR a couple of months ago. A very fast and experienced rider crashed twice there. Both in the same corner. Some think he was just pushing too hard into the corner. I'm thinking the same with some lapse in judgement. Not taking away from his abilities as he's way faster than me.

People make mistakes. Even the best of us. The first one that has been on track that is Mr. Clean with no incidents due to lack of judgement, I'll call BS on.

Fair points. But this is the sort of shenanigans we teach rookies not to do on the last session on Sunday, because we care about them, and hope their equipment is okay.

I've had my share of "oopses" over the years. Stuffing at 2003 EVO into hogpen armco was the worst. Driving in a hurricane was the intellectual error there. I claim inexperience at the time. I know better now.

Running my hoosiers a gazillion heat cycles was my last boo boo. But it was the first time in ten years I'd run hoosiers, but the result was a low speed spin in turn 1 at VIR. They were fine after they were warm, but they corded after that.

So I get it. But this one was so basic. And yeah, he didn't claim anything else other than "mea culpa". But it can be learned from.

Shawn

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Fair points. But this is the sort of shenanigans we teach rookies not to do on the last session on Sunday, because we care about them, and hope their equipment is okay.

I've had my share of "oopses" over the years. Stuffing at 2003 EVO into hogpen armco was the worst. Driving in a hurricane was the intellectual error there. I claim inexperience at the time. I know better now.

Running my hoosiers a gazillion heat cycles was my last boo boo. But it was the first time in ten years I'd run hoosiers, but the result was a low speed spin in turn 1 at VIR. They were fine after they were warm, but they corded after that.

So I get it. But this one was so basic. And yeah, he didn't claim anything else other than "mea culpa". But it can be learned from.

Shawn

Agreed. I think for him to put this out there is a good learning experience for others. I know when I talk to others that have crashed on track, it's not because of me relishing in their misfortune. It's for me to learn from what they think they did.

Now there are Youtube idiots out there that really are just disasters waiting to happen and are looking for the attention. Because I'm more focused on sport bikes, that's the content I typically see. There's one idiot in particular called Max Wrist just causes me to SMH as well as those that want to mimic his antics.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Agreed. I think for him to put this out there is a good learning experience for others. I know when I talk to others that have crashed on track, it's not because of me relishing in their misfortune. It's for me to learn from what they think they did.

Now there are Youtube idiots out there that really are just disasters waiting to happen and are looking for the attention. Because I'm more focused on sport bikes, that's the content I typically see. There's one idiot in particular called Max Wrist just causes me to SMH as well as those that want to mimic his antics.

You haz point sir. 9/10 people who crash on track did SOMETHING to get it there. Always good to learn.

Sorry about the sport bikes. I've watched one too many crotch rocket pilots airlifted off Carolina Motorsports surface to not wear my 4,000 pound suit of armor while I'm over 100mph. Plus I'm old. And fat.

Shawn

[RM7]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Apparently, you missed the part where he said he went through the bedding process and all the things you all accuse him of not doing in his follow up video. From what I can tell, his mistake was not flushing all of the DOT 3 fluid out and he has owned up to that.

The mistake is going 170mph into a corner (and not gradually increasing speed). There probably isn't a brake system in the world that's going to slow a Model S, E AMG or RS6 Avant (all cars that weigh about the same) from 170 into what's required to stick the turn in the distance he had. The incredible acceleration of the Tesla means you have to slow down that much earlier...and more gradually.

[M5Rick]

Plaid with archaic suspension and standard brake fluid will never cut it.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by RM7

The mistake is going 170mph into a corner (and not gradually increasing speed). There probably isn't a brake system in the world that's going to slow a Model S, E AMG or RS6 Avant (all cars that weigh about the same) from 170 into what's required to stick the turn in the distance he had. The incredible acceleration of the Tesla means you have to slow down that much earlier...and more gradually.

I know we're on a BMW forum, with BMW fanboi's.

I think an M5CS at that point would have been able to slow down enough, but I can't tell for sure. But, it wouldn't have been going 170 at that point either, it would have been going 150.

Shawn

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

On that you on the surface have a point.

But there is bedding brakes on the street, and bedding them on the track. I have followed perfectly the street bedding process from many OEM manufacturers. The minute you read the bedding process for track pads, they adjust the speeds up a lot. Track brakes aren't beeded until you see some ash along the edge of the pads.

But the other stuff I stick hard to. Drag slicks on lap two at 170? No one does that safely. And they didn't here either. You gotta warm up the tires. And drag slicks have no place on a road course. They just aren't suited.

One could say "don't pick apart this guy", but for track safety, it's every little point we need. One mistake can be lethal or near lethal, as you see here.

Shawn

Weird. I've driven multiple brake setups on track and never had a problem bedding them on the street.

They way to properly bed them puts way more heat into them than an average lap around a track.

Find a backroad, do multiple 80-5 mph stops until the brakes stink and the pedal gets soft. Let them cool completely, quick bleed, good to go.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Weird. I've driven multiple brake setups on track and never had a problem bedding them on the street.

They way to properly bed them puts way more heat into them than an average lap around a track.

Find a backroad, do multiple 80-5 mph stops until the brakes stink and the pedal gets soft. Let them cool completely, quick bleed, good to go.

I did just a few months ago. I went out and did all the stops and procedures that the brake pads said to do and then a few weeks later at Autocross they said my brakes were on fire and flames were shooting out. Well, it was just some remaining bedding happening, but the observer was convinced my brakes were shooting out fluid and all sorts of other bad stuff. They felt fine, but were obviously not 100% bedded.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Weird. I've driven multiple brake setups on track and never had a problem bedding them on the street.

They way to properly bed them puts way more heat into them than an average lap around a track.

Find a backroad, do multiple 80-5 mph stops until the brakes stink and the pedal gets soft. Let them cool completely, quick bleed, good to go.

Unless your backroad has an 80 mph speed limit (Montana? maybe), this isn't what I call "street" bedding.

I can't disagree with you that your procedure is "properly bed", but that's also "proper in the pokey with losing your license and maybe having your car impounded". You've obviously done this before, and I've TRIED to do this on the street, but I can never find a truly safe place to do it - it's either too dangerous for me, the car, the wildlife, or other people. Maybe you live someplace easier to do this.

I usually have to finish my high speed bedding for my brakes on the track. I've just gotten used to it.

But I'll bet a guy who put DOT 3 brake fluid in his system didn't do ANYTHING close to what you did.

Shawn

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by RM7

I did just a few months ago. I went out and did all the stops and procedures that the brake pads said to do and then a few weeks later at Autocross they said my brakes were on fire and flames were shooting out. Well, it was just some remaining bedding happening, but the observer was convinced my brakes were shooting out fluid and all sorts of other bad stuff. They felt fine, but were obviously not 100% bedded.

This is a common problem. I've done EVERYTHING I think I can do on the street to put all the heat in them properly, and still, on the track have something tell me "yep, not fully bedded yet".

Shawn