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      02-02-2023, 07:47 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
Veloster N, Fiesta and Focus ST, Saabs (probably knocking on the door of $40k with inflation). Jason Cammisa had a good bit about it in one of his Hagerty videos recently. The other thing working against everyone is just having extra money for fun purchases. Wages have stagnated so much that people can't afford to compromise and have multiple cars for multiple purposes.
Growing up as a teen and young adult in the late 1980s and 1990s in Kansas City, I'd have to say that I knew no one with parents that had extra cars for fun or other purposes. Seeing a BMW, Benz, much less a Porsche was a rarity and I lived in one of the wealthiest counties in Kansas and top 100 in the country.

I still live in the same county and expensive German cars are everywhere now. Homes are massively bigger. The overall stuff people have, the expensive hobbies, the extra vehicles, boats, etc are way more common now. People eat out way more, teens don't work so mom and dad buy them everything until they're out of the house, homes are full of electronics that replaced every few years, people pay huge sums for internet, TV apps, phones, etc. So while people may be more cash strapped now, it's largely their own doing, IMO.

A Camry may cost $35-40k now, but when considered for inflation, the price is consistent with they sold for in the early 1990s once inflation was accounted for. My dad paid $12700 for a new 1990 CRX Si. That car would cost nearly $29k now and it was bare bones.
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      02-03-2023, 07:39 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
Veloster N, Fiesta and Focus ST, Saabs (probably knocking on the door of $40k with inflation). Jason Cammisa had a good bit about it in one of his Hagerty videos recently. The other thing working against everyone is just having extra money for fun purchases. Wages have stagnated so much that people can't afford to compromise and have multiple cars for multiple purposes.
Does the post above conflict with post #82?
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      02-03-2023, 07:43 AM   #91
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Does the post above conflict with post #82?
I was referring to NEW cars in that post. All the cars I listed have been discontinued (in the US). There are a plethora of used options available.
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      02-06-2023, 02:07 PM   #92
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i drove 150 miles yesterday and saw 3 Cayennes towing big things (boats, etc)

one looked brand new towing a big boat as wide as the road
one is quite dirty but late model shape towing horses i think
one was an older model towing tandem jet skis

sorry i don't know whether they were turbo or v8 or v6 or what
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      02-06-2023, 02:08 PM   #93
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i drove 150 miles yesterday and saw 3 Cayennes towing big things (boats, etc)

one looked brand new
one is quite dirty but late model shape
one was an older model
And all were absolute trash!
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      02-06-2023, 03:53 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g21 View Post
i drove 150 miles yesterday and saw 3 Cayennes towing big things (boats, etc)

one looked brand new towing a big boat as wide as the road
one is quite dirty but late model shape towing horses i think
one was an older model towing tandem jet skis

sorry i don't know whether they were turbo or v8 or v6 or what
But you're in Australia! Ain't no American towing with their Cayenne's in the States, much less going off road except perhaps a gravel parking lot
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      02-06-2023, 06:18 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
But you're in Australia! Ain't no American towing with their Cayenne's in the States, much less going off road except perhaps a gravel parking lot
For real? rennlist can shed some light on this.
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      02-06-2023, 07:48 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cos270 View Post
Veloster N, Fiesta and Focus ST, Saabs (probably knocking on the door of $40k with inflation). Jason Cammisa had a good bit about it in one of his Hagerty videos recently. The other thing working against everyone is just having extra money for fun purchases. Wages have stagnated so much that people can't afford to compromise and have multiple cars for multiple purposes.
I actually just looked on Autotrader for a Fiests ST or Focus ST hoping that pricing on them maybe came down to Earth, finally. One of them would make a fun a beater. Nope, at least $10k and that was a Fiesta with north of 100k miles.

I cannot wait for the crash.
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      02-07-2023, 02:33 PM   #97
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For real? rennlist can shed some light on this.
How often do you tow with your Cayenne S? I live in the Midwest, truck country. The private vehicles I tend to see towing are 2500 series trucks. I used to travel all around the country and never once saw a BMW, Audi, and Porsche SUV towing anything. The same can be said for most any SUV or truck as well. Go to Europe and passenger cars tow stuff
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      02-07-2023, 04:25 PM   #98
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As great as the engineers are to produce this wondrous, physics-defying SUV, I just can't see me ever buying a high-performance SUV. I'd rather get a large, comfortable one (for a lot less money), and save my high-performance dollars for a sports car or at least a sports coupe. Hec, I don't even want to spend money on a high-performance sedan.

But cars and SUVs like this make a great rental using Turo, when you just want to blast around multiple people for a few days in a high-performance appliance. But I never want to own one, they simply don't cure my high-speed fantasies. Too heavy and too isolated for my tastes, and most don't even ride all that well (too stiff). Losing civility and max comfort defeats the purpose of having such a large machine to me.

Last edited by KevinGS; 02-08-2023 at 10:05 AM..
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      02-07-2023, 04:26 PM   #99
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[QUOTE=KevinGS;29818465]As great as the engineers to produce this wondrous machine, I just can't see me ever buying a high-performance SUV. I'd rather get a large, comfortable one, and I'll save my high-performance dollars for a sports car or at least a sports coupe. Hec, I don't even want to spend money on a high-performance sedan.

But cars and SUVs like this make a great rental using Turo, when you just want to blast around multiple people for a few days in a high-performance appliance. But I never want to own one, they simply don't cure my high-speed fantasies.

Itís hard to justify when something like an M3 wagon exists. Well for those of us not in the US.
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      02-07-2023, 07:31 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
How often do you tow with your Cayenne S? I live in the Midwest, truck country. The private vehicles I tend to see towing are 2500 series trucks. I used to travel all around the country and never once saw a BMW, Audi, and Porsche SUV towing anything. The same can be said for most any SUV or truck as well. Go to Europe and passenger cars tow stuff
Zero times. I bought it in December, boating seating isn't here yet. Go over to rennlist and tell the Cayenne crew they don't tow their 911s and 718s to the track.

OTOH I towed with my MB GLE350 "many" times. Also ran that puppy up steep, rutted trailhead roads in Colorado. And plan to do so with the 9Y0. Photo below is at the Grey's Peak / Torreys Peak trailhead. Read AllTrails and you will find that this road is among the worst.
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      02-08-2023, 09:32 AM   #101
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Photo below is at the Grey's Peak / Torreys Peak trailhead. Read AllTrails and you will find that this road is among the worst.
How hard can this trail be if you can tackle it on low profile all season street tires? Heck, I even see a Ridgeline back there.
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      02-08-2023, 10:12 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by MachinesWithSouls View Post
It’s hard to justify when something like an M3 wagon exists. Well for those of us not in the US.
As amazing as this is, it costs $200k. For that money, I'd rather have a $75k comfortable, luxury-ish SUV (of which there are many to choose from), and then for the remaining $125k, give me a GT4/Spider or a used 911.

But if you have this much money to spend on an SUV, you probably already have a 911 or a sports car in the garage, so...

If you have to have best the Cayenne in all the land and you have the money, then so be it. It's only money, right? ...can't take it with you.

Last edited by KevinGS; 02-08-2023 at 02:08 PM..
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      02-08-2023, 12:08 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
But you're in Australia! Ain't no American towing with their Cayenne's in the States, much less going off road except perhaps a gravel parking lot
Gen 1 Cayennes are becoming an increasingly popular offroad rig.
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      02-08-2023, 12:40 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGS View Post
As great as the engineers are to produce this wondrous, physics-defying SUV, I just can't see me ever buying a high-performance SUV. I'd rather get a large, comfortable one (for a lot less money), and save my high-performance dollars for a sports car or at least a sports coupe. Hec, I don't even want to spend money on a high-performance sedan.

But cars and SUVs like this make a great rental using Turo, when you just want to blast around multiple people for a few days in a high-performance appliance. But I never want to own one, they simply don't cure my high-speed fantasies. Too heavy and too isolated for my tastes, and most don't even ride all that well (too stiff). Losing civility and max comfort defeats the purpose of having such a large machine to me.
completely agree.

i think alot of people have to compromise for their wife/kids though. man wants something sporty and suggests a sedan. wife says no and wants an SUV to make it easy to load kids / car seats.

if you live in the city garaged parking spots are expensive. and sometimes you can't even get side by side spots (one car is deep to the other, which is cumbersome). so having two or three cars for yourself is a non starter.
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      02-08-2023, 02:07 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
completely agree.

i think alot of people have to compromise for their wife/kids though. man wants something sporty and suggests a sedan. wife says no and wants an SUV to make it easy to load kids / car seats.

if you live in the city garaged parking spots are expensive. and sometimes you can't even get side by side spots (one car is deep to the other, which is cumbersome). so having two or three cars for yourself is a non starter.
Yes, makes sense. If you have a family, and only have space for one vehicle, and you're a car enthusiast, then this indeed serves that purpose.
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      02-08-2023, 04:46 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
How hard can this trail be if you can tackle it on low profile all season street tires? Heck, I even see a Ridgeline back there.
Try it and report back.
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