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      01-24-2022, 01:18 PM   #419
M3WC
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Meh, expected more. 3.0L is an interesting choice. The fenders do look tacked on.

Last edited by M3WC; 01-24-2022 at 01:25 PM..
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      01-24-2022, 01:54 PM   #420
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Why is it more expensive than the F-150 Raptor? The 400 hp 3.0L Explorer ST starts at 48k. 70k starting price is crazy.
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      01-24-2022, 03:55 PM   #421
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Those fenders are hideous. Don't know why someone would buy this over the 392 Wrangler for $6k more which already includes a whole bunch of "options" (from lower trims) as standard. One also has a V8 and one does not. Gas mileage is a factor for some people I guess but I just can't see the value here.
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      01-24-2022, 11:35 PM   #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
Those fenders are hideous. Don't know why someone would buy this over the 392 Wrangler for $6k more which already includes a whole bunch of "options" (from lower trims) as standard. One also has a V8 and one does not. Gas mileage is a factor for some people I guess but I just can't see the value here.
Agree, I would take 392 Wrangler over Bronco Raptor. But I would much rather have a base Bronco over a base Wrangler. Fuel mileage on a 2.7L Sasquatch is 17mpg combine, the 3.0L will be worse. Might as well put in a V8 at that point, but they didn't out of convenience. It is plug and play, since 3.0 is an offshoot of the 2.7.

Last edited by M3WC; 01-24-2022 at 11:45 PM..
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      01-24-2022, 11:57 PM   #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3WC View Post
Agree, I would take 392 Wrangler over Bronco Raptor. But I would much rather have a base Bronco over a base Wrangler. Fuel mileage on a 2.7L Sasquatch is 17mpg combine, the 3.0L will be worse. Might as well put in a V8 at that point, but they didn't out of convenience. It is plug and play, since 3.0 is an offshoot of the 2.7.
You can also get a 392 for $6-8k off MSRP on an order and dealers are going to have some ridiculous ADM on these which means it makes even less sense vs the 392. Wrangler also has proven resale value advantage
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      01-25-2022, 02:44 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
Those fenders are hideous. Don't know why someone would buy this over the 392 Wrangler for $6k more which already includes a whole bunch of "options" (from lower trims) as standard. One also has a V8 and one does not. Gas mileage is a factor for some people I guess but I just can't see the value here.
I'm sure people dropping this kind of coin on their mall crawler likely aren't concerned over a few mpg on the highway.

Even the non-Raptor Bronco, and the Wrangler for that matter, I really don't understand. They are loud, ride rough, get shitty mpg, etc. The VAST majority of people never take them anywhere you'd need that kind of capability.

Hell you can literally look up a video of a guy taking a Crown Vic on Hell's Revenge in Moab.

So really these vehicles have become a "look at how much money I spent"
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      01-25-2022, 02:53 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
I'm sure people dropping this kind of coin on their mall crawler likely aren't concerned over a few mpg on the highway.

Even the non-Raptor Bronco, and the Wrangler for that matter, I really don't understand. They are loud, ride rough, get shitty mpg, etc. The VAST majority of people never take them anywhere you'd need that kind of capability.

Hell you can literally look up a video of a guy taking a Crown Vic on Hell's Revenge in Moab.

So really these vehicles have become a "look at how much money I spent"
Here in Florida people love lifted trucks and SUVs on huge ass wheels. None of these vehicles will ever be taken off-road. Itís really only about the looks and grabbing attention. I know a local guy who owns a custom six-wheel Wrangler. He barely ever drives this thing.
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      01-25-2022, 02:59 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
Even the non-Raptor Bronco, and the Wrangler for that matter, I really don't understand. They are loud, ride rough, get shitty mpg, etc. The VAST majority of people never take them anywhere you'd need that kind of capability.
About as likely as your average M4 owner to take his/her car to the track.
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      01-25-2022, 04:02 PM   #427
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About as likely as your average M4 owner to take his/her car to the track.
Very true. But at least it will do daily driving duties in comfort.
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      01-25-2022, 05:58 PM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox View Post
I'm sure people dropping this kind of coin on their mall crawler likely aren't concerned over a few mpg on the highway.

Even the non-Raptor Bronco, and the Wrangler for that matter, I really don't understand. They are loud, ride rough, get shitty mpg, etc. The VAST majority of people never take them anywhere you'd need that kind of capability.

Hell you can literally look up a video of a guy taking a Crown Vic on Hell's Revenge in Moab.

So really these vehicles have become a "look at how much money I spent"
Well I bought a 392 that's supposed to be delivered in March, so I can tell you that from my perspective the Wrangler was a great daily driver. The only thing it was missing was some acceleration and sound. Jeep fixed that with the 392. One of the best sounding stock exhausts out there, pretty damn fast for an SUV, and I love the high seating position and ability to open the roof at the touch of a button. You can roll over anything, never have to worry about speed bumps, parking blocks, curbs, etc. Is there another car you can take the doors and roof off that has a hemi V8? Nope. Is there another naturally aspirated SUV out there with that kind of power? Other than the Grand Cherokee SRT, nope again.

Wranglers also have amazing resale value, so I can probably drive it for a few years and sell it for close to what I paid, if not more. If they stop producing the 392 after this year, you can be sure that resale will remain high forever. They're never going to make a hemi Wrangler again after this.
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      01-26-2022, 11:56 AM   #429
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Congrats on the 392 purchase!!! Thats one of my "really want to get list" vehicles....Love my 2019 Moab. Wranglers kick ass, fun to drive, endless upgrades, go anywhere attitude, please post pics!!!

JESM.
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      03-02-2022, 02:22 PM   #430
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2022 model year orders being stopped on the 8th with 2023 orders to be taken later in the year. We just put our order in yesterday with an eta of year-year and a half. Which is when we were wanting to pick a new vehicle up any ways.

I will add to some comments about 1st year production runs. True lots of issues will come up with those first compared to as the model evolves but donít forget inline changes as well. There are at times parts or systems being changed due to material availability that wasnít tested as long as original oem and in consequence causes more issues as well or change from outsourcing vendors for what ever reason. Original e85 didnít have same issue with the abs with the m54 that changed when the n52 came about on the facelift for example and thereís many many more such as that. So keep in mind you necessarily never know when a reliable part got changed due to supply or material change until it happens. No matter what make youíre talking about.
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      03-02-2022, 03:09 PM   #431
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My local Ford dealer wants only $94k for a 2-door Wildtrak. Who are the idiots paying anywhere near these prices? Probably financing for 84 months and then in 3 years when their Bronco is worth $30k and they owe $80k they will be wondering what happened. lol
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      03-02-2022, 03:50 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
My local Ford dealer wants only $94k for a 2-door Wildtrak. Who are the idiots paying anywhere near these prices? Probably financing for 84 months and then in 3 years when their Bronco is worth $30k and they owe $80k they will be wondering what happened. lol
Kinda like the zupra release. The 2020 zupra I test drove back in 2020 when they ďran the numbersĒ under the dealer incentives/discounts was a +10k there and when I questioned it they said cause of market value. Wasnít launch edition either. I told them that put it in the same price as a F Type Iím in no hurry Iíll wait. 4 months later they called me back practically pleading if Iíd buy it for 2k under msrp. Told them Iíd have to think about it.

Test drove wild track itís nice but beyond my budget even on employee discount. Long family friends of the owners of the dealership way before they got into the business. Most new inventory on their lot are orders for pick up. Not sure if itís everywhere but right now 0 down to order. Some of it I think dealers are using that to build inventory on anything backed out on.
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      03-03-2022, 08:21 AM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper1 View Post
2022 model year orders being stopped on the 8th with 2023 orders to be taken later in the year. We just put our order in yesterday with an eta of year-year and a half. Which is when we were wanting to pick a new vehicle up any ways.

I will add to some comments about 1st year production runs. True lots of issues will come up with those first compared to as the model evolves but don’t forget inline changes as well. There are at times parts or systems being changed due to material availability that wasn’t tested as long as original oem and in consequence causes more issues as well or change from outsourcing vendors for what ever reason. Original e85 didn’t have same issue with the abs with the m54 that changed when the n52 came about on the facelift for example and there’s many many more such as that. So keep in mind you necessarily never know when a reliable part got changed due to supply or material change until it happens. No matter what make you’re talking about.
I cancelled our order for a 2022 because after almost 6 months the order was still unscheduled clean and it was clear we may not get the vehicle in 2022. Also I'm not confident that the MIC top issues have been ironed out and boy there's a lot of problems with these vehicles from the roof to the 2.7L engine grenading, electrical issues, etc. I like the idea of the Bronco but the timing was just brutal for the release of this vehicle as the supply chain issues combined with the MIC top issues have conspired against this vehicle. Hopefully in a few years if things get back to normal these will be ironed out and plentiful on dealer lots as I know a lot of 2021 reservation holders still haven't got their Broncos which must be really frustrating.
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      03-03-2022, 09:00 AM   #434
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My wife just got her bronco
She really loves it
We will have to take it on some mountain ďoffĒ roads around here.
As far as mark up, here in Mexico they have everything included like tax and fees and no mark up per say. Everyone pays the same and no negotiations.
Which may sound counter to the way mexico is perceived as a bargaining capital of the world.
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      03-03-2022, 12:42 PM   #435
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After seeing a few on the road I have to say I still like the design of the Wrangler better. Ford kinda dropped the ball with the Raptor version, they could've done so much better but the 392 Wrangler is just better in every way for my purposes (except gas mileage).
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      03-03-2022, 01:37 PM   #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgoldenz View Post
After seeing a few on the road I have to say I still like the design of the Wrangler better. Ford kinda dropped the ball with the Raptor version, they could've done so much better but the 392 Wrangler is just better in every way for my purposes (except gas mileage).
Weíre keeping our TJ my wife bought new as a college grad gift to herself. We were tossing up between a new wrangler and bronco but seeing the crash test between the two decided the bronco. Of course thereís arguments for and against the video of the recent crash test like anything else, I know the wrangler didnít have the skid plate in the test when bronco did and such. But also after turning in our Ď17 unlimited lease was also for safety. Too many blind spots. I didnít drive it as much as my wife since itís her daily but after driving it more towards the end of the lease and seeing how easy it was to potentially back over our 5 year old not even knowing it till all was too late was an eye opener. We didnít have a back up cam on it, wouldnít think we needed to but how things are designed these days they are building blind spots into the designs and forcing the must for the blind spot monitoring systems. We chose the 2 door bronco to help in eliminating the blind spot issues from the side door sills. And after driving a Ď21 2 door wrangler with having less blind spots than the 4 door the one thing they still canít get right from the former Chrysler comp are the damn seats. Out of the 6 Chrysler products we have had to this day the 22 year old seats in the TJ hands down beat everything else from Chrysler we had. With a herniated disc in my lower back I was in so much pain whenever I was in the Ď17 unlimited. We were all ready to buy out our lease on the Ď17 till I ended up driving it more the last month of it. When I brought up my concerns to my wife she said every point I had hated about it she did as well. So why keep it.

Also the bronco in back is super more roomy for me than the Ď17 unlimited. The kiddo likes sharing Reeseís cup blizzards so I get stuck in the back on ice cream runs lol. A reason we take the jeep more than the e82 when getting ice cream but that even still is better than when I had to cram in the back of the Ď15 mustang we leased.

For us thereís no rush in the delivery aspect, no current leases to turn in I typically wait till the new contracts are signed before committing to a car purchase so thatís why I donít mind at all waiting it puts it smack dab at the time weíd want to take delivery.
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      03-03-2022, 01:50 PM   #437
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My dealer says I'm scheduled for April 4th, we shall see.
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