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      06-30-2017, 02:59 PM   #23
AtlasM
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Americans love hatchback shaped vehicles as long as they are also taller/higher off the ground so they can think of them as SUVs.

Hatchbacks are reasonably popular in the compact car segment with the Ford Focus, VW Golf and Subaru Impreza selling in pretty decent numbers.

Hatchbacks are also popular when they're liftback sedans like the Audi A7.

But for a long time there was a stigma associated with hatchbacks, same as there is a stigma with minivans. People just irrationally hate them.

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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Thank Carter and his CAFE rules for killing the station wagon. It was intended to get us all into fuel efficient cars. Instead it got us into gas guzzling SUVs. Bravo!


Station wagons died off because minivans did their jobs better, and then the majority of people decided both minivans and station wagons were too mommy-mobile looking so switched to SUVs.
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      06-30-2017, 06:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlasM View Post
Americans love hatchback shaped vehicles as long as they are also taller/higher off the ground so they can think of them as SUVs.

Hatchbacks are reasonably popular in the compact car segment with the Ford Focus, VW Golf and Subaru Impreza selling in pretty decent numbers.

Hatchbacks are also popular when they're liftback sedans like the Audi A7.

But for a long time there was a stigma associated with hatchbacks, same as there is a stigma with minivans. People just irrationally hate them.




Station wagons died off because minivans did their jobs better, and then the majority of people decided both minivans and station wagons were too mommy-mobile looking so switched to SUVs.

Agreed with all the above.


The only areas of the U.S. I know to be popular areas for wagons ... the North East and Mountain West.

The only thing I can think of that's the closest thing to a "wagon of yore" is the Ford Flex. About 20k sold in the US each year ... only ~ 2k in Canada. Although I doubt I'll ever own one ... I dig the look. They just scream for faux-wood paneling, and a surfboard on top.


I've owned a few hatchbacks over the years (mustang, Saab 9-3, focus, Audi A3).

Regarding the stigma of mini-vans ... Our most recent purchase in the category is a Toyota Sienna mini-van (no kids ... my wife wanted one to schlep our Great Danes). Although I can fit a full sheet of plywood flat in the back and can it get out of it's own way with 230 hp ... It is a soul sucking machine. Everytime I drive our mini-van, I feel any joy of driving being strangled by it. Other than my 3-Series, I drive a 7.3l Ford diesel with a camper-top/cap; and although its not a performance vehicle in the least ... it's a lot more enjoyable to drive.
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      06-30-2017, 08:02 PM   #25
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Because we need a 6 GT...
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      06-30-2017, 09:26 PM   #26
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I'd buy one for sure, but I'm amazed at how they managed to make the relatively attractive 2 couple look like something Chris Bangle vomited up. Not a good looking hatch.
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      07-01-2017, 01:43 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Carrots View Post
I'd buy one for sure, but I'm amazed at how they managed to make the relatively attractive 2 couple look like something Chris Bangle vomited up. Not a good looking hatch.
If I'm not mistaken, the 2 series hatch is on the fwd platform? Saw one at the dealer the other day and agree it's like a European minivan. The small footprint, high roof is popular over here in Germany, seeing them everywhere I go from all makes. With narrow European roads I can easily see how a large, American size minivan is a difficult buy. The ones I see on base all have front and rear bumper damage, and some have damage on the side panels. They're just too big here.
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      07-01-2017, 06:23 AM   #28
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I think a hot hatch makes far more sense than trying to shoehorn 2 more doors into the 2 for a GC version. It will need to find a niche, and 'ultra luxe hot hatch' seems rather thin. I'm hoping for more 'back to the roots performance' with a lower price point, as an entry-level (of just the 'adults version of the Civic R'). What ever happened to making the engine/chassis the central core, and the 'when you want leather and power everything, you can step up to the next rung' mentality? Now I feel like everybody is trying for the 'kitchen sink' approach, sacrificing dynamics for style/options.

And I don't think Americans really hate wagons, but like Fundguy said, they got legislated away once the loopholers opened the door to SUV's (if they hadn't had all the financial and performance boosts from not being bound to CARF, they never would have taken off like they did). Last weekend I saw at least 6 different Audi wagons in various states of care - some were work cars, but some were obviously in the 'nice sporty' range.
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      07-01-2017, 07:48 AM   #29
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I think this would be the perfect hot hatch for the occasional ski trip with all wheel drive but also be a daily driver. Would be my choice over a Subaru Crosstrek or Golf GTI.
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      07-01-2017, 08:22 AM   #30
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We've rented them twice now while visiting Europe and if I could buy that car here I would in a heart beat. Loved the 1.6l diesel. Peppy enough and fuel economy was amazing!
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      07-01-2017, 08:42 AM   #31
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Mazda seems to have figure out how to sell both a 5 door and SUV...

I would rather have the 5 door.



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      07-01-2017, 02:58 PM   #32
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Americans outside of the costal cities think hatches are 'gay' so it's not suprising they really don't bring them here.

Even the small spattering of wagons we get are mostly useless, neutered 2.0's and the desperation of car makers to give them 'un wagonlike' profiles means that pretty much every wagon has less cargo space than a Golf (even some of the CUV/hatchback/wagonlet things have terrible cargo space )

I did like the GLA 45 amg but it's overpriced, TINY cargo space and the next iteration apparently gets a massive HP boost so there was no point getting one
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      07-10-2017, 02:16 PM   #33
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I'm keen on this area b/c I hope it will steer them back towards performance, and less for the luxury market. I can't see much market for a luxury hot hatch, but a performer to challenge the GOLFs would make a ton of sense (at least to me). And it would be a springboard for younger entry-level buyers to get into BMW cheaper, then work up to a 2 or a 3. With 300+hp and x drive, I think it would dominate this class.
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      07-12-2017, 07:10 PM   #34
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Yes the 1er wil be the last of its breed when it moves to the UKL Architecture.
Every other 1er competitor is FWD/AWD due to packaging requirements.
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      07-12-2017, 07:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Carrots View Post
Americans outside of the costal cities think hatches are 'gay' so it's not suprising they really don't bring them here.

Even the small spattering of wagons we get are mostly useless, neutered 2.0's and the desperation of car makers to give them 'un wagonlike' profiles means that pretty much every wagon has less cargo space than a Golf (even some of the CUV/hatchback/wagonlet things have terrible cargo space )

I did like the GLA 45 amg but it's overpriced, TINY cargo space and the next iteration apparently gets a massive HP boost so there was no point getting one
That's what I don't understand, US don't want hatches, don't want wagons but for some reason I see the fugly GTs on the road.
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      07-31-2017, 05:19 PM   #36
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The upcoming X2 should provide a welcome balance to those that would like a Sporthatch outline but prefer the solidity and presence of an SUV.
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      07-31-2017, 10:08 PM   #37
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The wagon is cool, but can it be had without xdrive?
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      08-01-2017, 07:02 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
Wonder why we don't have this in the states? Would you get one?
Combination hot rod and people hauler.

https://www.bmw.com/en/all-models/1-...rformance.html

These are why ... the Ford Focus RS and ST ($10k less) are hard to compete against. I'm not sure the hot hatch market in the US will go for an M-car price point ... we like our Hot Hatches cheap. Plus there's that "hatchbacks" are considered "lower-class" cars in most of the US. With that, at $36-$42K for a 350 hp Focus RS it's hard for an M-Hot Hatch to compete. In my neck of the woods, when it comes to Hot Hatches ... the Focus ST is king ... unless you're a Baby-Boomer .... then you get a Kia Soul. Lol!

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      08-11-2018, 11:56 AM   #39
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The BMW M140i is a Perfect commuter car ...
  1. Small
  2. Nimble
  3. Powerful
  4. Super fun


How could the suspension and the handling of the Ford and Mazda be anywhere close to an M designed suspension?

C'mon, BMW USA .... put this in the market.
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