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      05-15-2018, 10:05 AM   #1
L99ryc
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300bhp Bmw F20 N13

So i have a BMW F20 116i

At the moment the following changes have been done:

Stage 1 Remap - 220 BHP 310NM

Since then i have been prepping the car for stage 2

i have fitted the OEM BMW m135i Intercooler
a Pipercross panel filter

but heres my query, my car just had a service and needs spark plugs, so as i know i am going to be pushing more power, i want to future proof my car and make sure i get the correct spark plugs.


Many people say m135i spark plugs are the ones others say NGK ?

what is the best path to go down ?

Following this, Ignition Coils - Should i upgrade to m135i Ignition coils or is this a waste ?

reliability is a must on my build, once stage 2 map is carried out i plan on getting a turbo custom fab or go meth injection.

i really cant find any turbos at all for the N13, my only theory is getting a turbo from a 120i N20 and seeing if it could be custom fabricated to fit on the N13 ????

i am guessing a custom down pipe will then also be needed.

either way i will be going meth injection with or without a turbo upgrade.

Any tuners recommended for meth injection ???

Like i said - 300BHP is my target may sound unrealistic but considering stage 2 should be running 240-250bhp, if i did get a turbo upgrade maybe 260bhp (im probably dreaming) then meth injection is 20% more power

250 + 20% = 300 BHP !!!!

On paper this really is a recipe for a animal!

i plan on getting m135i brakes, as stopping is just as important as the HP figure.

Any advice ????

has anyone got to 300bhp yet ?

and all this on a humble 116i.
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      05-15-2018, 02:26 PM   #2
eray
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peugeot has done it. RCZ R and current 308 GTI both have 270 hp peak power. you might wanna take a look at their setup since the engine blocks are the same.
engine codes for peugeot group:
EP6FDTX - 205/208/210 hp 1.6l THP Peugeot 208 GTi
EP6FDTR - 250/270 hp 1.6l THP Peugeot 308 GTi
EP6CDTR - 270 hp 1.6l THP Peugeot RCZ
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      05-15-2018, 02:41 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eray View Post
engine blocks are the same
Really? The same part number? There must be differences to handle higher burden. In materials at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eray View Post
peugeot has done it
Oh yes. No need to repeat.
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      05-15-2018, 03:26 PM   #4
eray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No one View Post
Really? The same part number? There must be differences to handle higher burden. In materials at least.
pistons must be definitely different. most noticable differences on bmw side are double vanos + twinscroll turbo charger on Prince engine.
MINI uses a variant of Prince engine too. Cooper JCW has stock power of 211hp and produces approximately 266hp at stage 1 tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No one View Post
Oh yes. No need to repeat.

not quite sure if such high output (300hp) is achievable on N13 engine, however 250ish hp sounds doable.
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      05-16-2018, 01:22 AM   #5
L99ryc
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agreed, but if 250 is doable, the meth should bump it up 20% which = 300bhp ????

i know without meth there is no chance of 300
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      05-16-2018, 01:35 AM   #6
L99ryc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eray View Post
peugeot has done it. RCZ R and current 308 GTI both have 270 hp peak power. you might wanna take a look at their setup since the engine blocks are the same.
engine codes for peugeot group:
EP6FDTX - 205/208/210 hp 1.6l THP Peugeot 208 GTi
EP6FDTR - 250/270 hp 1.6l THP Peugeot 308 GTi
EP6CDTR - 270 hp 1.6l THP Peugeot RCZ
Does this mean i could put a turbo from the Peugeot onto the N13 ????

because another thing is.... 250bhp is all good but will the stock turbo take that power ?

i really need a better turbo to keep reliability to a maximum.
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      05-16-2018, 02:00 AM   #7
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Not sure if is it the same engine, but I had a THP and isnt the most realiable engine.
For the power your looking for you should get forged pistons, rods and a big turbo like garret gt28 or similar
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      05-16-2018, 02:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L99ryc View Post
250 + 20% = 300 BHP !!!!

.
Not always is like that. Not every engine reacs same with meth.
To get much more power using meth inj, you will have to set a high timming setup and 100% meth (I mean, the injection )

Its a bit risky, because if you have some failure in the meth pump, your tank is empty or whatever is a blow up
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      05-16-2018, 02:11 AM   #9
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this might be useful https://www.etuners.gr/peugeot-citro...servicing-101/

Mini w/ turbo upgrade

https://www.etuners.gr/mini-cooper-s...t-jcw-stage-3/

peugeot 308 w/ hydrid turbo upgrade

https://www.etuners.gr/peugeot-308-g...-98ron-260bhp/

peugeot 207 w/ EFR6258 turbo

https://www.etuners.gr/peugeot-207-thp-stagexxx-100ron/



Etuners are probably the best thp tuners in the word, they have a lot of experience with those engines
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      05-16-2018, 02:14 AM   #10
L99ryc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolatero€ View Post
Not always is like that. Not every engine reacs same with meth.
To get much more power using meth inj, you will have to set a high timming setup and 100% meth (I mean, the injection )

Its a bit risky, because if you have some failure in the meth pump, your tank is empty or whatever is a blow up
I would have a switchable remap, sport + being the meth map, this way im not constantly on meth,

the AEM kit also has a light showing when empty etc...
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      05-16-2018, 02:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L99ryc View Post
I would have a switchable remap, sport + being the meth map, this way im not constantly on meth,

the AEM kit also has a light showing when empty etc...

Yes sure, but if something happens.... booom!
Different story is using meth for cooling down your intake
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      05-16-2018, 02:26 AM   #12
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I Dont wanna put you down mate, I had a VAG 1.8T 100% meth and a THP 100% meth.
Just giving u an advice of the risk.
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      05-16-2018, 03:04 AM   #13
L99ryc
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No im taking your advice, i fully agree with what your telling me, i need people with your kind of experience to help me
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      05-16-2018, 03:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L99ryc View Post
No im taking your advice, i fully agree with what your telling me, i need people with your kind of experience to help me
Are you 100% sure that your engine is the same as the THP from peugeot?

Because I blowed it up using 100%meth with a AEM meth kit and a TD04 turbo from subaru

My advice will be to be pretty careful with the chain tensioner (it fails all the time, so check it before doing any upgrade) and go for a meth kit but without a agressive timming map.
With a JCW turbo, plug and play you gonna have a pretty fast car without touching internals (250/260hp).
If you want more, start thinking about forged pistons and rods and a GT28, GTX or TD05 turbo.


PD: No matter what, get a good tuner
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      05-16-2018, 03:37 AM   #15
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207 with a master power R449 turbo



207 with a TD05big16 turbo

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      05-16-2018, 04:07 AM   #16
L99ryc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocolatero€ View Post
Are you 100% sure that your engine is the same as the THP from peugeot?

Because I blowed it up using 100%meth with a AEM meth kit and a TD04 turbo from subaru

My advice will be to be pretty careful with the chain tensioner (it fails all the time, so check it before doing any upgrade) and go for a meth kit but without a agressive timming map.
With a JCW turbo, plug and play you gonna have a pretty fast car without touching internals (250/260hp).
If you want more, start thinking about forged pistons and rods and a GT28, GTX or TD05 turbo.


PD: No matter what, get a good tuner
No im not sure if it is the same engine, only being told it is.

how much will forged pistons and rods cost ££££
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      05-22-2018, 10:53 AM   #17
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I have no idea how much it would be but you should think around £1000ish plus work
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      06-16-2018, 01:51 PM   #18
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Hey man any update on this yet? I'm willing to make my 114i (same engine) push more power, I will follow this thread and see what ya'll come up with
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      08-06-2018, 12:14 AM   #19
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seriously under what scope you guys compare the FWD to RWD engine capabilities?

300 on the prince not happening with out changing the internals (not pistons only) anything above 350nm on the N13 the block breaks!!!!

Coils i had answer this to you on another post n13 n20 and n55 use the same coils!


SP either from the NGK of the N20 or N55 without messing about with the gap.

Cooler get rid of the N55 cooler and upgrade to a Wangner one or similar volume.

The 135m brakes? you mean the sport blue brakes found on all models!
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      10-14-2018, 02:04 PM   #20
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whats the name of the remap, I have a f20- n13 (2012), and I've been reading this and found very interesting have some more hp!

Thanks.
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      01-10-2019, 04:02 PM   #21
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I own a stage 2 bmw 116i, intake, intercooler, decat and full turbo back 3 inch exhaust. It was mapped and did 245hp on the dyno. I've been looking very deep into getting a bigger turbo but for the gain there is no point unless you go forged internals.

The N13b16a engine will not take anymore then around 270/280hp before internals start giving way. The n13 engine shares pretty much all the internals from the n18 engine that's in the r56 Cooper S, and with a bigger turbo they limit them on stock internals to no more then 270/280hp.

The n13 in the 116i will easy go over 300hp with a bigger turbo and easy over 400hp with meth. But only on forged internals. Stock would give way straight away.

I've done a loud of research into the mini JCW turbo to see if it would fit straight bolt on to the 116i and no it won't it's not a direct replacement! The turbo sits the opposite way and the exhaust housing of the jcw turbo is different to the n13 turbo.

There's a company doing a hybrid turbo for the n13 engine and with a bone stock car there pushing 222hp at the wheels, so around the 265hp at engine mark.

For the money I wouldn't go bigger turbo on the n13 engine unless you have the money to do the internals.

Forged internals= Rods, pistons, Cams, head studs and then bigger turbo would easily see 350-400hp on the n13 engine depending on turbo size. 500hp is achievable but will need engine head work, big turbo and pure meth.
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      04-14-2019, 03:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesGT513 View Post
I own a stage 2 bmw 116i, intake, intercooler, decat and full turbo back 3 inch exhaust. It was mapped and did 245hp on the dyno. I've been looking very deep into getting a bigger turbo but for the gain there is no point unless you go forged internals.

The N13b16a engine will not take anymore then around 270/280hp before internals start giving way. The n13 engine shares pretty much all the internals from the n18 engine that's in the r56 Cooper S, and with a bigger turbo they limit them on stock internals to no more then 270/280hp.

The n13 in the 116i will easy go over 300hp with a bigger turbo and easy over 400hp with meth. But only on forged internals. Stock would give way straight away.

I've done a loud of research into the mini JCW turbo to see if it would fit straight bolt on to the 116i and no it won't it's not a direct replacement! The turbo sits the opposite way and the exhaust housing of the jcw turbo is different to the n13 turbo.

There's a company doing a hybrid turbo for the n13 engine and with a bone stock car there pushing 222hp at the wheels, so around the 265hp at engine mark.

For the money I wouldn't go bigger turbo on the n13 engine unless you have the money to do the internals.

Forged internals= Rods, pistons, Cams, head studs and then bigger turbo would easily see 350-400hp on the n13 engine depending on turbo size. 500hp is achievable but will need engine head work, big turbo and pure meth.
Im running on your setup +meth and hybrid turbo mate, only on compressor side, i dont care about dyno figures its not realistic sometimes but i can tell its chasing 8v s3 285 bhp and it can be little faster than 308 gti 270
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