BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > Time for some aero...
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      05-26-2013, 11:46 AM   #1
Madgambler
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Trying to keep my chipped M Hatch on the road is proving tricky with the standard body-kit. So going to add the M Spoiler and fins next week to see if that'll help keep the back end from being too squirrelly.

My dealer's Parts chap says they also have a front item with lip spoilers listed for the 1-series too but I can't see how that would work with the M Turbo rads either side so I've asked him to check.

Apart from aftermarket splitters has anyone else found a decent front and fitted it?
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      06-06-2013, 02:50 AM   #2
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I have the rear set of spoiler and fins
they add no down force whatsoever if that is what you are looking for
if think they are purely for you to distinguish yourself from all the other 116 and 118
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      06-06-2013, 02:58 AM   #3
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I've seen the rear spoiler kit in the box now too and I think you're exactly right. Styling only by the looks of it, but it's not that expensive so I'll have it put on.

The front spoiler kit is a clip-on beard rubber affair that is not compatible with the M Sport front anyway. So I won't be adding that.

Guess I'll have to keep looking for a front splitter or something like that.
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      06-06-2013, 07:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madgambler View Post
Trying to keep my chipped M Hatch on the road is proving tricky with the standard body-kit. So going to add the M Spoiler and fins next week to see if that'll help keep the back end from being too squirrelly.
Umm, at what speed are we talking about? I'm assuming you are talking about a high speed sweeper? But what does it have to do with whether its chipped or not?
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      06-06-2013, 07:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
Umm, at what speed are we talking about? I'm assuming you are talking about a high speed sweeper? But what does it have to do with whether its chipped or not?
Standing start to 40mph at full throttle with 550NM of torque, thanks to the chip, is making the front lift a little too much for my liking.

Then from 60 to 80+ in 4th/5th the rear drifts a little too much and could do with some extra bite
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      06-06-2013, 07:40 AM   #6
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talk to the guys in Japan
They have some items that may be of interest to you
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      06-06-2013, 07:42 AM   #7
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I'm sorry, but at 40mph aero isn't going to help. 80+ you start getting the benefit of aero, but even then your description of it tells me that you need stiffer chassis set up and stickier tyres, not more aero. A standard car would have the same issue in the latter description, nothing to do with the extra torque.
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      06-06-2013, 07:54 AM   #8
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+1. Splitters and spoilers aren't going to help much at those speeds. It's the reason why most cars with active spoilers don't have them active until around 70mph.

I think you need to be looking at grip and suspension. If you have the MPSS's on then you probably won't get much better for road use so you would be looking at wider section I would say. The trade off is increased unsprung weight.

If you are fitting a rear wing then the AC Schitzer one may be a better option. Due to it;s design i could see it at least standing a chance of creating a minuscule amount of extra downforce..... if you were going really, really fast. To be honest the F20 aerodynamics are pretty shit so it's not like anything will make it worse.
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      06-06-2013, 08:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAY View Post
I'm sorry, but at 40mph aero isn't going to help. 80+ you start getting the benefit of aero, but even then your description of it tells me that you need stiffer chassis set up and stickier tyres, not more aero. A standard car would have the same issue in the latter description, nothing to do with the extra torque.
Yup, still waiting to hear about ways to stiffen up the dynamic chassis a touch. Could do with a sway bar or something at the front, but again needs to be compatible.

Don't agree with you I'm afraid, the car didn't break traction as much before the tune at speed. And I'm still saving up for the diff...

The stock tyres are being pushed but are holding up. 10k down the road and there's still plenty of meat on them despite enthusiastic driving. But the 245s at the rear feel a bit skinny - might see if the rims can take a fatter version next time.

What I'm missing (and I think I always will) is the sensation of more and more grip I used to feel from my 911, particularly at high speed. Just a little bit more sure-footedness at the back would be welcome.
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      06-06-2013, 08:18 AM   #10
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The reason why the car is breaking traction at speed with the tune is due to the additional torque. And I'm assuming you are actually accelerating when you are losing traction. But if say you were going through a constant radius sweeper and constant speed, and the rear loses traction more now compared to before, it is simply down to the fact that your tyres are losing its peak performance. 10k km is a lot of k's for rear tyres with this much torque even if they still look like they have tread on them.

Haha, you will never get the sensation of rear end grip like a 911, ever! No other car feels like the 911 when it comes to rear end stability and grip. This is all down to the weight of the engine in the rear, the fat tyres and superior suspension tuning. I know 911s very well, having owned many in the past. My last two were 997.2 GT3s. Only one way to fix this - buy another 911.
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      06-06-2013, 04:54 PM   #11
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+1 on no aero solving your problems at the speeds quoted, unless you add something that is simultaneously hideous and ridiculous. Howeve, it's interesting to hear how the increased torque is overwhelming the chassis. The M135i is well-balanced out of the box, and it just goes to show the slippery slope we create when we start modifying the car. Sounds to me like you might want to move to a coil over set up, with some fairly stiff front and rear roll bars, but I'd need a better sense of what the chassis is doing. A good suspension tuner can help you, by adding sensors to determine where loads are too high/low, and temps across the tyres. Fix the chassis first, then go for aero, assuming you are regularly using the car at speeds at which the aero will be effective.
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      06-07-2013, 02:58 AM   #12
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Tuning cars

The only way to evaluate aerodynamic changes is in a wind tunnel, which costs megabucks. How many tuners you think book extensive wind tunnel time to evaluate their various modifications....a few of the mainstream tuners....at best. There's no doubt that subtle changes can make a huge difference to a chassis at VERY high speed.....remember the early Audi TT sans spoiler that was renowned for flying backwards out of high speed bends when lifting off? The cure was a small boot lid spoiler that altered the airflow by breaking the wing effect that caused lift at high speeds.

At the speeds you're talking about, aerodynamic add-ons will make very little difference as the air pressures generated are simply too low and act over too small an area.

Effectively what the chip tune has done is to alter the dynamics of the car, in terms of both drive train and chassis, adding performance, but at the same time narrowing safety margins designed in by the manufacturer.

I would guess that if the car was designed to have the power levels of your chip tune, it would also have stiffer suspension (and not just spring rates), bigger brakes, wider tyres, an LSD or even 4wd.
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      06-07-2013, 07:42 AM   #13
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All reasonable comments, thanks people.

I consider the car to be a work in progress, that's for sure! Trying to figure out priorities for upgrades now. It's such a blast to drive and yet I know it still has potential to unlock : )

What's tricky is balancing the upgrades to not ruin the drive. Right now I think I've pushed it beyond it's limits but only if I drive it hard.

M Brake kit, bigger wheels/tyres, Quaife all on the shopping list. Just trying to juggle the order.

All part of the fun.
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      06-07-2013, 08:20 AM   #14
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Great way of thinking right there. It is all part of the fun and we enjoy watching from the side too! I spent a lot of time and money on my previous 135i, creating a track car that was incredible to drive. I had less common mods like Drexler LSD, carbon fibre wide body front end, bespoke AP Racing race brakes, KW clubsport suspension etc. ultimately it was still a flawed track car compared to a GT3 that is out of the box. But it was fun with the trail and error long the way!
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      06-07-2013, 09:52 AM   #15
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I actually think you need wider rims and tires, thats all
it will solve both the accelerating problem and the rear being a bit drifty
I believe although the car is very gripy, a wide open throttle at 2nd gear can still break the traction and its ridiculous so a wider rear might be great

as for the rear I feel that it is not actually drifty, its just not as predictable as the other BMWs I have owned over the years, but its gripy

for me I think the car is holding up well with the extra power
however it kinda leans a bit too much, I have added a little under body reinforcement and sway bars likely to follow
not sure if I want to get a full set of suspension but a slightly lowered springs will do good for the look
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      06-07-2013, 01:04 PM   #16
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Well, as it turns out the M Rear spoiler kit is now on (just a stick-on job) and it seems to have stabilised the rear end after all.

Drove it home on my usual commute and nowhere near as nervous giving it the full beans at the usual junctions. Money well spent, says I

And thanks to this forum I might pop over to the boys at MStyle in Essex to see if they can retrofit a front splitter for the next bit. Just because...
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      06-07-2013, 01:08 PM   #17
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If I were doing what you're doing....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madgambler View Post
All reasonable comments, thanks people.

I consider the car to be a work in progress, that's for sure! Trying to figure out priorities for upgrades now. It's such a blast to drive and yet I know it still has potential to unlock : )

What's tricky is balancing the upgrades to not ruin the drive. Right now I think I've pushed it beyond it's limits but only if I drive it hard.

M Brake kit, bigger wheels/tyres, Quaife all on the shopping list. Just trying to juggle the order.

All part of the fun.
If I were doing what you're up to, I would look to the tuning companies to give me a clue regarding the order in which to do things. They normally offer stage 1, 2 and 3 tunes that add various bits and pieces as the power becomes more radical.

I am still learning the car but to drive quickly on a winding road you absolutely need Sport +. That would lead me to believe that the stock power already requires a very short leash, and I would probably look to beefing up the suspension a little as a first step. For anything but motorways I actually prefer Sport suspension with Comfort throttle and gearbox mapping, so I doubt a little extra stiffness would hurt anything and would certainly improve on-limit handing in Sport+
Sport+ is pretty close to the Z4M's standard suspension settings and with extra power, that would have required a little extra stiffness (which would have made it quite unpleasant around town due to lack of adjustability). With the M135i you have 2 softer settings and Comfort could easily tolerate a little beefing up without making regular driving uncomfortable.
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      06-07-2013, 07:20 PM   #18
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I'm confused, Steve; AFAIK, there's only two suspension settings on the M135i with MAdaptive - Comfort and Sport, and only one on the std M135i. Sport+ simply maintains the Sport suspension, if you have Adaptive, and reduces the DSC intervention. Throttle and steering remain as per the Sport setting.
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      06-08-2013, 04:44 AM   #19
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Sport+ has a different way to electronically imitate the LSD as far as I can feel
perhaps somebody can give a more technical explanation
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      06-08-2013, 06:36 AM   #20
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Yes, if you engage Sport+, then hold down the DSC Off button, you engage the e-diff. But throttle response reverts to Comfort
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      06-09-2013, 07:24 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttimbo View Post
Yes, if you engage Sport+, then hold down the DSC Off button, you engage the e-diff. But throttle response reverts to Comfort
Holding down the DSC Off button undoes your selection of Sport+, so the first step is not necessary. As you say, you always get he Comfort engine mapping.

Sport+ does not seem to activate the e-diff. When I use this mode on tracks, I get more wheelspin than with DSC Off.
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      06-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #22
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Just FYI, friend added this. Felt nothing.
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