BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > 2012 a four banger??
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      06-13-2010, 12:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
The difference in efficiency on a displacement or cylinder basis is going to be negligible. The specific fuel consumption (pounds of fuel per HP produced) is roughly the same engine to engine. It is more a function of having to use that HP. The more you use, the more fuel you have to burn from any engine. Nothing is free.
If I could rephrase what you are saying? All things equal, a 4 banger will get better MPG than a 6 banger.

I would prefer a 4 cylinder with a turbo over a 128. If it can match a 135-6, even better. What you get is more MPG, less weight equating to better handling, more fun to drive because you will have a power curve biased up top. I love the I6, spent half of my life driving them, power curve is perfect for daily driver. But if you put a I4-Turbo in a lighter car, it can only get better. Don't worry, the M1 will be an I6.

What you really need to worry about is if it gets FWD for next generation. Please check the poll @ http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389203
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      06-13-2010, 07:10 AM   #24
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Given a choice between two engines... one a four and one a six... both making the same power... i would take a SIX EVERY TIME!!!
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      06-13-2010, 11:17 PM   #25
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Six will p'bly have a better torque curve than a four. I don't want to have to wait to 5-6K before making power.
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      06-13-2010, 11:45 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
Six will p'bly have a better torque curve than a four. I don't want to have to wait to 5-6K before making power.
Never had an I4 or FWD. Talking out of my ass. I6 till the day I die. Viva I6.

Lets hope ButFMW doesn't throw a V6 at us.
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      06-14-2010, 05:22 PM   #27
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Subaru Boxers are awesome, and thats about it for my approval of 4 bangers.
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      06-14-2010, 06:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusDubya77 View Post
Subaru Boxers are awesome, and thats about it for my approval of 4 bangers.
Please take no offense here, but... I really hate the way four cylinder engines sound. Esp a subbie with a sport exhaust! Sounds very Beetle-like!

Once you get acustomed to the silky smoothness of a straight six.... it is very hard to go back to a four pot banger. I think this is why for many years BMW's over here in europe, came with both a 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines of simular performance & specs.

In the old e46... you could have a 320i with either a six or a four. I think they were fairly close in Hp too. I think, 150 PS for the six and 140ish for the four. ??? Someone feel free to correct me here.

Anyway... my point is that the six always sold better and was the "drivers car" preferred car. BMW has gotten away from offering customers engine with so simular specs.

btw.... that little 2.0L six was put into ALOT of BMW models. Z3's and Z4's, e46's, e39's and more that I am forgetting right now!
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      06-14-2010, 07:40 PM   #29
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Oh, I am in full agreement on wanting a 6 more than a 4 cylinder. I just want to let it be known my opinion of 4 cylinders. Subaru makes the only decent one.
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      12-22-2010, 01:09 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatjoez View Post
bro...

Volkswagen R32 3.2L Engine..
Superseded by
Volkswgaen Golf R .. 2L Turbo Engine, More Power

Seriously, don't underestimate advances in engine technology


re: price, cheaper if anything
This! I'm glad someone said it. Fewer cylinders doesn't mean reduced power. Engine technology evolves quickly.
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      12-22-2010, 01:37 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
I think there are too many unknowns about the direction for the next 1er, much less the next 135i specifically. However, if some of the rumors about lighter weight prove to be true, it's quite possible that a turbo four could be more than comparable.

If the current 135i is 3,400 pounds (1540 Kg) and makes 300 hp (225 KW) (understated as it might be), then if the next car comes in at 3,100 pounds (1,400 Kg), you would get the same power to weight with about 275 hp (200 KW) and torque, numbers that Audi/VW, Subaru, Mitsubishi and Mazda already come near or surpass with four banger turbos. Let's not forget that BMW has made 1,100+ hp (800+ KW) four cylinder turbos for F1, I think they know a thing or two about four cylinders, take a look at the shape of their headquarters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Headquarters

As the owner of a lighter BMW than the 135i, I'd much rather have a lighter car with similar power to weight than a heavier car with the same power to weight.
You just dropped some knowledge right there.
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      12-22-2010, 04:19 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremydgreat View Post
You just dropped some knowledge right there.
lighter and more powerful....these are people after my own heart. Leave the extra weight and power to the 3 series. Just keep the 1 RWD so we can have the great driving dynamic. If we didn't mind wrong wheel drive we could have just bought a mini.
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      12-23-2010, 10:37 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
This! I'm glad someone said it. Fewer cylinders doesn't mean reduced power. Engine technology evolves quickly.
But you can be fairly certain that it still does in terms of modability given the dame manufacturer and production year...outside of shit (or just old) design displacement wins out in the end when it comes to power.
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      12-27-2010, 03:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Mitsubishi, Subaru (non-US STI) and other cars have managed right around 300 hp and 300 ft/lb of torque with two liter fours. Of course I got 7 mpg on a tank of gas in an STI (US 2.5l) once, so it's not like going to a four will necessarily improve mileage numbers.

a friend of mine has an 08 STi, and I consistently get better MPGs than he does, both on the street and during HPDEs. Plus, my car is faster in the top-end. I think it has more to do with his gearing, though.
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      01-09-2011, 03:41 PM   #35
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The 330 will be a 2.0 l turbo, the 335 a 3,0 liter six with turbo.Probably the same with the 1 series. This according to Auto motor und sport.
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      01-20-2011, 03:53 PM   #36
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I would absolutely love a 120is, inspired by an old E30 325is. Please BMW, do the retro thing with the design.
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      01-24-2011, 07:44 AM   #37
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My guess is the recently announced 245 hp turbo four is going to be the most powerful non M engine available in the new 1 series.
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      01-24-2011, 12:15 PM   #38
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The X1 with the same engine goes 0-100 in 6,1 sec. The 128i must be close to 5!
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      01-31-2011, 01:28 AM   #39
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I don't mind. If they neuter the 1 I will just get a 3 next time. The 135i a pretty insane package if you look at bmws history.
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      01-31-2011, 05:45 AM   #40
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My question is why can't we have a 2L I6 or bring back the 2.5L six.

It seems that BMW is trying to hop on the Audi bandwagon with the 2.0T. They should differentiate themselves by making a different engine rather than saying look! Our 2.0T is better than yours made 5 years ago. Of course it's going to be better damn it.

My 3600 lb 135 nets 33-35 MPG consistently and that's a turbo I-6. You can't argue that an I6 is the more efficient design. A four banger is so unbalanced...it just fights itself and vibrates like crazy...guess I'm just preaching to the choir
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      01-31-2011, 10:39 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
My question is why can't we have a 2L I6 or bring back the 2.5L six.

It seems that BMW is trying to hop on the Audi bandwagon with the 2.0T. They should differentiate themselves by making a different engine rather than saying look! Our 2.0T is better than yours made 5 years ago. Of course it's going to be better damn it.

My 3600 lb 135 nets 33-35 MPG consistently and that's a turbo I-6. You can't argue that an I6 is the more efficient design. A four banger is so unbalanced...it just fights itself and vibrates like crazy...guess I'm just preaching to the choir

First, even if your 135i mileage is true, it's certainly not representative of most of us. Mine gets an average of 21 mpg in mixed driving and has never gotten above 28 mpg with pure highway driving.

Second, a 2.0l I6 just on principal costs more than a 2.0l I4, what with 50% more reciprocating parts. Finally, in order to meet fuel and ,this is the more important aspect, CO2 requirements, forced induction is becoming more and more important in new engine designs.

Perhaps if BMW didn't have a long history with I4's, there'd be reason for concern, but personally, I'm actually pretty excited about an I4 with tuning potential and better efficiency than "base" I6's we've been getting for years. I've wanted a 3er wagon for years, but have avoided the 328i due to the lack of power without much advantage in efficiency. If it was either powerful or efficient, it would be worthy, but sadly, the base I6 has been a bit of a lame duck for the last decade or so.
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      01-31-2011, 11:09 AM   #42
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This is very common mileage for me on my trip to and from my university.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...hlight=Mileage

I'm fully aware of bmws history with I-4s but I just like how unique an I-6 is and how ubiquitous a 2.0T I-4 is...I guess I'm just a douche like that.

And I never said that you couldnt turbocharge a 2.0 I-6. I suggested it because the potential fuel savings over a 2.0 I-4 can't be ignored. An I-6 is simply a better design and it would lower CO2 emissions by being more efficient. I used my 33.6 to illustrate that point. That matches the mileage of many 2.0T I-4 while having 1 extra liter of displacement and over 100 HP more.
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      01-31-2011, 11:20 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenVert View Post
This is very common mileage for me on my trip to and from my university.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...hlight=Mileage

I'm fully aware of bmws history with I-4s but I just like how unique an I-6 is and how ubiquitous a 2.0T I-4 is...I guess I'm just a douche like that.

And I never said that you couldnt turbocharge a 2.0 I-6. I suggested it because the potential fuel savings over a 2.0 I-4 can't be ignored. An I-6 is simply a better design and it would lower CO2 emissions by being more efficient. I used my 33.6 to illustrate that point. That matches the mileage of many 2.0T I-4 while having 1 extra liter of displacement and over 100 HP more.
True, but I'd guess the cost of a small I6 turbo is still very similar to the 3.0t, so you're not making much of a case for an entry level motor for the US market. You're also incorrect in assuming that an I6 is more efficient than an I4, simple physics of pumping losses for 50% more cylinders, valves and headers should make this clear. A balance shaft will calm nearly all first level imbalances and keep 99% of drivers satisfied. Go drive a used S2000 or even a Miata and tell me that those fours aren't more fun than the x35i motor that dies at 6200 rpm.
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      01-31-2011, 12:48 PM   #44
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^i'm used to a Ford 302 that redlined at 5500 and loses all of it's torque after 4000 rpm in a 5000lb AWD truck...so to me the N54 is a high revving engine haha

It's more of an image thing for BMW in the US than anything. Thats why they stopped offering 4 bangers in the first place. And it's possible that they want toantain that premium image with a small I-6 rather than an I-4. It's another marketing technique to keep them above Audi. That would be what my argument would revolve around for the most part. If it was all about dollars and cents BMW wouldn't be making any I-6s at all as they are more expensive and harder to package than an equivalent sized V-6.
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