11-30-2012, 12:23 AM | #89 | |
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11-30-2012, 01:31 AM | #90 | |
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Maybe we're misunderstanding each other.
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11-30-2012, 02:33 AM | #91 |
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@aajami
The 2 series Gran Coupe is far from a done deed. The decision what to do is being pondered based on sales volumes, not "sport cars niche" manufacturer. In other words, Gran Coupe or Sedan (no matter 2 or 1) needs to be calculated based on FWD/RWD short term and long term production costs projections. -short term: big volume of RWD parts shared with current 1er, 3er make the final car as expensive as FWD (FWD is new for BMW) -long term; FWD becomes more profitable; discussions that everything under 3 series could go FWD A 2er Gran Coupe as such is difficult to price; the moment it enters the 3er price kingdom is becomes a niche volume model. The new FWD 1er (2016) could be placed a little lower to accommodate 2er Gran Coupe, however, this would put the 2er Gran Coupe in a future far off. Therefore a compromise needs to be reached; an emotional sedan (with more sporty appearance) that can be placed in the mainstream market and sold in big volumes. Therefore, a 2er Gran Coupe as many here imagine is at the moment highly unlikely. (look at the photos of the cheap central console of the 4er Gran Coupe to see the reality) The new 2er Coupe should take care of the highest emotions in this price segment. Last edited by Antares; 11-30-2012 at 12:47 PM.. Reason: typo; dead instead of deed :D |
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11-30-2012, 11:32 AM | #92 |
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The car's chassis code is public now (thanks to SCOTT) so it appears to be coming in all likelihood. That doesn't mean you can't debate it further, but it probably isn't the most exciting of discussions given the evidence. Just my opinion.
As for FWD M products (which makes for a much more interesting debate), which would potentially include an M Sedan 1 Series, I don't think we can rule it out at all. But I would expect hatchbacks before a sedan simply because the M2 GC will probably cover the market pretty well for those who want a small four door M. I use FWD loosely however - it would be more accurrate to say AWD Haldex. In any case, with products like the RS3 and TTRS (and coming A45 and CLA45) garnering such praise, it appears you don't need a RWD chassis to build a great small performance car (the key there being "small" - heavier, large cars need more power and really do best with the engine pointed north-south). |
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11-30-2012, 12:42 PM | #93 | |
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My 135i is head and shoulders above any of those cars in terms of the way it feels in my hands so I sincerely hope the upcoming M2 continues to have this advantage over its rivals which will undoubtedly be amazing cars. |
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11-30-2012, 01:00 PM | #94 | |
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As you pointed out, a hatchback would make sense; especially with a 4 wheel drive. The problem is, that M should be a sub-brand (like that i-electric). It's even organized as a "separate" entity inside the company. Such a hatchback would lower the M prestige; at the moment there is enough snickering about M not being present enough in markets like China, USA, Russia and similar (where great business can be done with such cars). So, I think that the M sub-brand strategy is going to be worked out first, probably by marketing it in a different manner. BMW as such is going into mass production with FWD cars and some are seeing the M as future hardcore BMWs. You can imagine that such a hatchback is not a piece in this puzzle. |
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11-30-2012, 01:46 PM | #95 | |
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But I digress. In the small car market, RWD is a rarity. BMW's strategy involves both FWD and RWD cars now, but the volume sellers are all going to be FWD going forward. I think they will come up with some compelling "hot hatch"es that, despite not being RWD, nevertheless outpace the competition. |
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11-30-2012, 01:51 PM | #96 |
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I am not sure I fully understand your points, but I would say that the fact that M vehicles are now pushing limits (like the X6 M - an M SUV, an AWD M, previously blasphemy) successfully means that the door is wide open for further exploration. Couple that with the fact that there are plenty of small, FWD performance cars that get world renowned praise (even cars like a Civic Type R, or Ford Focus RS) means there are plenty of customers for BMW to sell to. You take the compelling story of the M brand and present something to this arms-and-minds-wide-open customer base and its not so hard to build a business case anymore.
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11-30-2012, 02:06 PM | #97 | |
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Once, today they have no importance here. A kid from a medium class family would laugh at the car and even more at the driver. You must understand, there is a huge difference between mentality and habits in USA and Old countries. BMW M cars should be refined and brutal (sort of Aston Martin from BMW). Frankly, I was not interested in this M story some time back; therefore I cannot tell you where are the things going. Last edited by Antares; 11-30-2012 at 02:43 PM.. |
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