11-26-2012, 07:09 PM | #23 |
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BMW is trying to capture a larger market share. By introducing cheaper models, they can do it. It's totally understandable from a business standpoint and I cannot fault BMW for that (every other company is doing the same thing), but as a brand, BMW has been watered down. BMW was once reserved for a certain type of driver. Now it is reserved for people who just care about the badge.
The E46 M3 and E39 M5 were the ultimate driver's cars. We will never see cars like that again. |
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11-26-2012, 08:26 PM | #25 | |
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11-26-2012, 08:29 PM | #26 | |
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There is a reason why people pay the price premium. If that goes away there is no need to pay the premium. Yes, the halo of the brand will continue but that only lasts for so long.
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11-26-2012, 09:11 PM | #27 | |
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11-26-2012, 11:52 PM | #28 | |
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and here comes the minivan
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11-27-2012, 02:21 AM | #29 | |
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I'm all for lightness and nimble steering, but not at the cost of every day usability. And do you really believe that the entry-level M cash-cow will be that much lighter with all the options they are bound to include to make a model profitable? This smaller engine will buck under the weight of your 3-zone climate control, LED lighted footwells, cameras every corner, miles and miles of additional electrical cordage. And then there is a big question of M135 with easily chipped IL6 N55. Why does it even exist when BMW plans for 4-cyl M2? This new M135 can go on par with Porsche Cayman, compensating Cayman's precision with engine power. Will 4-cyl M2 be able to do so? My guess it will be ripped apart. P.S. My rant is of course triggered by the now badly damaged plan to jump from 135 directly into M2.. But we'll see what we'll see. Last edited by scargizmo; 11-27-2012 at 02:26 AM.. |
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11-27-2012, 02:33 AM | #30 |
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Thanks for sharing Scott but I'm lost with all these new future models.
As long the M series keeps high revving rwd platform (Lower weight please) that can haul me and my friends around in style and kick ass on the track then I'm all good. Will there be an X3M?
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11-27-2012, 04:40 AM | #31 |
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How many friends do you haul around on average at one time?
The X3M is dead. ![]() |
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11-27-2012, 05:48 AM | #33 | |
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I get the exact opposite impression. I think the small RWD BMW will remain for generations to come. The newer trend in passenger car construction is to employ fewer platforms to support a wider range of vehicle segments. Look at what VAG is doing with their new MQB/MLB component system for example. BMW already uses the same basic architecture for the F2x/F3x (while F0x/F1x also share a platform as well). Even as the 3 continues to grow in size, smaller vehicles can share the same chassis and components. Maybe eventually all RWD BMWs share the same common, highly flexible, underpinnings. Of course, they could do the same with FWD vehicles too, allowing for much larger offerings than are planned in the near term. That may scare some people too, but as long as there is still a market for RWD vehicles, BMW will keep building them. I would suggest that market will remain healthy for the foreseeable future since it is difficult to properly harness more than ~300hp or so through wheels that are responsible for both steering and propelling the car. AWD helps of course but you can only do so much with the transverse (front engined) layout. |
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11-27-2012, 06:13 AM | #34 | |
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Apart from being turbocharged, the M2 will be in the ace in the cards if and only if BMW doesn't increase its size and weight with every generation that passes.
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11-27-2012, 09:10 AM | #36 | |
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11-27-2012, 10:17 AM | #37 | |
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11-27-2012, 01:29 PM | #39 | |
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Now that the upcoming X4 will bring an X4M and like X6 is heavily based on the X5 sister vehicle as is X4 to X3. Potentially they could develop an X3M alongside the X4M. It all depends on how the market performs, demand for more performance SUVs convinced BMW to put the X5 M into production which together with the X6M brings together a huge sales and profit injection for the two concepts. The potential for the X4M is too great to ignore especially for markets where the X6M is that markets best selling M car. There is demand for a mid-sized car for those that find the X6M out of reach. Given its importance and what it will eventually face BMW M will make sure the X4M will be a very special car indeed. I understand that employees at Spartanburg will be shown the new X4 model very soon. BMW do not partcipate in the tit-for-tat horsepower race , BMW adheres to what is suitable for what the engine is capable of. Just because a competitor can go faster in a straight line does it mean it is a better car? That answer is no because not all roads are straight. BMW M customers expect a driving experience not numbers. That is why the current M3 Coupe has remained at the top for five years seeing off all-comers. Audi might dazzle you with huge numbers etc but are you still talking about the Audi RS 3 or the BMW 1er M Coupe? - which car has lingered in the memory? and right away you know the answer. As BMW states the base car has to have a good degree of competency to follow as an M car , you have that base and then you can progress its development. If you have a chassis has been maligned by the press you build on that but you still have that problem because there is no other direction to go. BMW are keen to keep the same formula for the M2 as the 1er M Coupe, except it will become lighter and incorporate a four door model for the first time. The engine will be a four cylinder with Turbo and will put out the same numbers as before. But as enthusiasts the world over were drawn by the promise of one of the best M cars ever they were not disappointed and they were not after numbers they wanted a car that done what it promised in everyway possible - They wanted a pure M car. Which it was and now here comes phase II of progress. The Gran Coupe version of the 2er Coupe will retain rear-wheel-drive because BMW know it will have that advantage over the FWD Mercedes-Benz CLA and Audi A3 Sedan. BMW also know that enthusiasts shopping for this type of car would very possibly take the BMW.
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11-27-2012, 01:33 PM | #40 | |||
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Why you are referring to a 250hp Ford when I am talking about an upcoming M2 with same hp/torque as the outgoing 1M - I don't get it. Quote:
How this could be achived is "simple": Deliver only slightly more hp than the M135i (so I am talking about 20 hp here, which means on par with the 1M) BUT make it around 100kg lighter. This would be the recipe for the M2 if I follow Scott correctly. And please stop dreaming of your "easily engine chippin"! Why the hell should BMW put effort in developing/building easily chippable M engines? If you want to chip - buy an M135i ... and loose your warranty. Quote:
And btw: straight line performance was never impressive with the 1M and will also not be the case with the M2. But track performance/handling will be - I expect something more into direction of todays Cayman R ![]() Just noticed: Scott already did put it into context ![]() |
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11-27-2012, 01:35 PM | #41 | |
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11-27-2012, 02:34 PM | #42 |
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11-27-2012, 03:25 PM | #43 | |
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11-27-2012, 05:48 PM | #44 | |
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I'd love to see your theory come true, because I'm a firm believer that the world will always need a small RWD sedan. I guess we'll see in five years. Winner buys the other a beer in 2017?
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