[thebmw]

Originally Posted by jaffles

When the son bought his 92, I bought a 93 willingly knowing I was embarking on an adventure with him. I have just used forums, youtube, google and on-line shopping to educate myself to work on these cars with the son. Second hand or aliexpress tools work fine. We have changed shocks, engine mounts, sump gaskets, thermostats, coolant, oil filter housing gaskets, oil changes, serpentine belts, induction boxes and more. About to fit car play with reverse camera, new steering wheel, and seat base to his.

His gone from a Instagram wanna be drifter dreaming of a tune, LSD, and coloured lights underneath it, to a 16yo who wants for none of that anymore, rather just clean it, respect it, and enjoy it.

Sure we had a failure with changing a fuel filter and had to see an indi, but we have had success in changing the trans oil and mechatronics. I haven't added it up but we are way in front and he has the rest of his life. It may have been possible to do it all with a Mazda, but they have to be proud of what they are investing time in, seen in, sunk money in, not see it as car to get from A to B.

You are a full fledged mechanic at this point!

You really hit on something important that virtually everyone seems to be missing here. The best part of owning a car that you actually want are the memories that are created. You have experiences now with your son that you will never forget. I'm positive your son will reminisce on these "old" days in the future.

There is a saying in the Viper club, "you come for the car, you stay for the people". During that process, you learn, grow, evolve, mature, enjoy, create bond, and memories. That is what all of this crazy car stuff is about.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by thebmw

You are a full fledged mechanic at this point!

You really hit on something important that virtually everyone seems to be missing here. The best part of owning a car that you actually want are the memories that are created. You have experiences now with your son that you will never forget. I'm positive your son will reminisce on these "old" days in the future.

There is a saying in the Viper club, "you come for the car, you stay for the people". During that process, you learn, grow, evolve, mature, enjoy, create bond, and memories. That is what all of this crazy car stuff is about.

As mentioned before, he is dreaming of an M Competition ?, or a Corvette C8. This car has made him want a tutor to hone his math, and he really is maturing in a way that is simply impressive to witness. I really do feel if I didn't run with him on this car from the beginning, and just told him his getting my shity ol Nissan Pulsar manual I use as a pick up, it would be a very different story.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Youtube, forum posts, and a gnarly set of tools is all it takes to do a lot of the repairs on a car. It is rarely difficult, but you do need to understand what you're doing (i.e., research) and have a lot of patience. Also, plan on the jobs always taking 2 to 3 times longer than you think

I've saved tens of thousands of dollars working on my cars over the past 25+ years. Granted much of the work was modifications. I have saved a massive amount of money working on my Cayman which is actually one of the easiest cars I've ever worked on. Almost everything is accessible.

Each to his own I guess. I don't have the garage space, the tools, the time, the patience nor the skill set. Especially the patience.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Each to his own I guess. I don't have the garage space, the tools, the time, the patience nor the skill set. Especially the patience.

With some dealerships charging $450 an hour around here with after tax money, it is not a bad idea to learn how to do some basic things. It's fair to say that most people here don't make $600 an hour thus, becoming a basic mechanic pays more than whatever their day job is.

Mechanical (ICE) cars are just a big, heavy Lego sets. Electric cars on the other hand, virtually impossible to work on.

[Alfisti]

WHat? $450 an hr? This is a VERY expensive city and an indy that works on Porsches/Ferrari etc is charging $140 to $165.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

WHat? $450 an hr? This is a VERY expensive city and an indy that works on Porsches/Ferrari etc is charging $140 to $165.

The cheapest indy is $150/hr, but they end up charging more hours than what is needed. It's so crazy that the dealership wanted $3k for spark plug change. That is multiple times more than a heart surgeon gets paid for heart surgery! Just wait until everyone has electric cars. Rates will be even higher and customers will have no choice but pay it because indy's won't have access to the codes.

Again, all the more reason to buy a used mechanical ICE car, like a manual. Let the kids learn on a car that doesn't have screens all over the place, doesn't drive itself, and needs to be treated with care or there will be problems.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Mechanical (ICE) cars are just a big, heavy Lego sets. Electric cars on the other hand, virtually impossible to work on.

That is not true.
All the usual things you upgrade on a car - suspension, brakes, wheel, tires - are identical between ICE and EV cars.

Drivetrain is where simplification comes in with EVs. Motors and inverters are compact and inexpensive ($800-$1.5K) and rarely go bad. They also don't leak, don't overheat, and generally don't require any maintenance.
The big cost is in battery, that is typically covered by 8 year/100K-150K warranty.

Basically, EVs are way easier and cheaper to maintain used, and 100% the same to work on for the parts you are likely to upgrade.

Originally Posted by jaffles

When the son bought his 92, I bought a 93 willingly knowing I was embarking on an adventure with him. I have just used forums, youtube, google and on-line shopping to educate myself to work on these cars with the son. Second hand or aliexpress tools work fine. We have changed shocks, engine mounts, sump gaskets, thermostats, coolant, oil filter housing gaskets, oil changes, serpentine belts, induction boxes and more.

That was precisely my concern - I really don't want to become a part-time mechanic on a 20+ year old 3-series that I bought on the cheap for my teen.
Simply not worth my, or his time.
I would rather bond with my kids over something more worthwile than swapping out 20-year old BMW cooling system, or chasing 20-year old oil/power steering/freon/coolant leaks.

HTH,
a

P.S.: I found that using "EV question" is a great test to weed out incompetent mechanics. If someone tells you they will not replace wheels or tires on an EV out of clueless-ness, they are not qualified to work on my ICE cars either!

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by thebmw

It's so crazy that the dealership wanted $3k for spark plug change.

Excuse me? I just had mine done at a Porsche indy for a few hundred bucks.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Each to his own I guess. I don't have the garage space, the tools, the time, the patience nor the skill set. Especially the patience.

And the skinned knuckles haha. Honestly my dad was a mechanic but we never really bonded. He had no patience and I recall a spanner landing right in the middle of my freshly painted bonnet. I learnt to find patience.
I do have a bit of space and picked myself up a second hand hoist, so it makes many things easier.

[Alfisti]

Yeah I dunno, I can save $400 doing it myself or spend the day by the pool sipping pina colada and playing volleyball with the kids. Take my $400 man.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Each to his own I guess. I don't have the garage space, the tools, the time, the patience nor the skill set. Especially the patience.

BUT you are missing out on the best part: The looks on people's faces when you tell them you fix and service a Porsche. Most believe that these cars are very difficult and expensive to work on and that you must be some sort of seasoned tech to consider working on one. That could not be further from the truth with the 986/996, 987/997, and 981/991 cars assuming you don't have a short block issue In that case, you're in for a world of financial hurt!!

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by afadeev

That is not true.
All the usual things you upgrade on a car - suspension, brakes, wheel, tires - are identical between ICE and EV cars.

Drivetrain is where simplification comes in with EVs. Motors and inverters are compact and inexpensive ($800-$1.5K) and rarely go bad. They also don't leak, don't overheat, and generally don't require any maintenance.
The big cost is in battery, that is typically covered by 8 year/100K-150K warranty.

Basically, EVs are way easier and cheaper to maintain used, and 100% the same to work on for the parts you are likely to upgrade.

I was referring to the engine/drivetrain which are not something I would ever touch in an EV. And even after doing so, I am sure there will be coding issues.

Originally Posted by afadeev

P.S.: I found that using "EV question" is a great test to weed out incompetent mechanics. If someone tells you they will not replace wheels or tires on an EV out of clueless-ness, they are not qualified to work on my ICE cars either!

That is hilarious and sad simultaneously. Were those mechanics at the dealership, indy, or tire shop?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Excuse me? I just had mine done at a Porsche indy for a few hundred bucks.

In Kansas City, the Porsche independents are about 1/3 the price of the Porsche dealer. The Porsche dealer in Kansas City charges around $1,000 to do plugs on a 987 and $1,400 on a 997. Or I can do it for around $120 and a couple of hours of my time going real slow and drinking a beer or two.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Excuse me? I just had mine done at a Porsche indy for a few hundred bucks.

There was a dealership in the Chicago area I went to for an A/C recharge (BMW of Barrington). I posted about this years ago. Charged me $500 for an A/C recharge (before I realized it was a $20 refill kit). Even worse, recharge lasted 2 weeks, which is what prompted me to research it and buy a $20 kit, which lasted to this day.

Worst part, they said I urgently needed $15k in repairs. Did not need those repairs. Only needed about $1k of those repairs at an indy shop 4 years later.

This is why it is imperative to teach your kids about diagnosing correctly and doing simple repairs. I source my parts and hire indys for the job now. I still pay more than I should, but way less than the dealer.

Finally, it is important to note that all dealers and indy charge a lot now, BMW or otherwise.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I was referring to the engine/drivetrain which are not something I would ever touch in an EV. And even after doing so, I am sure there will be coding issues.

^This. There is definitely a very different layer of complexity when working on an EV outside of suspension, drive axle, and brake stuff. They do have cooling systems and certainly can and do spring leaks.

Motors, transmissions, and batteries are largely non-serviceable and the cars largely disposable if they are in even minor wrecks, even more so than ICE vehicles.

You also need to have a very strong understanding of electrical systems, safety, and how to fully de-energize that car before poking around.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by thebmw

There was a dealership in the Chicago area I went to for an A/C recharge (BMW of Barrington). I posted about this years ago. Charged me $500 for an A/C recharge (before I realized it was a $20 refill kit). Even worse, recharge lasted 2 weeks, which is what prompted me to research it and buy a $20 kit, which lasted to this day.

Worst part, they said I urgently needed $15k in repairs. Did not need those repairs. Only needed about $1k of those repairs at an indy shop 4 years later.

This is why it is imperative to teach your kids about diagnosing correctly and doing simple repairs. I source my parts and hire indys for the job now. I still pay more than I should, but way less than the dealer.

Finally, it is important to note that all dealers and indy charge a lot now, BMW or otherwise.

This is very true. A friend nearly got scammed by one of the local BMW dealers for $17K in repairs needed for his 2015 740i. Over half of the stuff they claimed was broken/leaking/etc., wasn't.

My daughter replaced the passenger side rotor and pads in 30 minutes on my M235 after watching me do the driver's side. I did that job with OEM parts for around $400. BMW wanted $1500.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by afadeev

That was precisely my convern - I really don't want to become a part-time mechanic on a 20+ year old 3-series that I bought on the cheap for my teen.
Simply not worth my, or his time.
I would rather bond with my kids over something more worthwile than swapping out 20-year old BMW cooling system, or chasing 20-year old oil/power steering/freon/coolant leaks.

Fair enough. I've been hanging around an 88 year old who has a lathe, milling machine, and tends to repair or make everything rather than buy a replacement. I'm an 80s kid so have been cultured into just replacing parts as its cheaper than repair we are told/sold. Its been an eye opening relationship.

The daughter's (uni student with part time job) car was quoted $870 for a new air con compressor, I fixed the clutch in 1 hour for $18 with a new bearing. Her tensioner on the serpentine belt, $190 new aftermarket made in China from ebay was the same as the local auto shop, $300 for genuine, but really its about <$10 of manufacturing. I fixed it in 1 hour for $6, another new bearing. I have done similar with $10 seals more than once, or even just a can of lubricant has saved thousands.

Its as much about bonding as not being screwed. Because we are so being screwed. I source and deliver spring water from a 5M property in a $600,000k truck and trailer. I get paid 1.9c in total per litre for the effort and it works out OK. It then cost a total including my bit another 17 to 55c (pending company size) to bottle, cap, label (whatever you want) and transport it. Some of that is made in 80M+ sheds and machines. Retailers then on self for $3 to $6 per bottle (600ml) on a just in time model. The same volume I deliver walks out retailers doors and I bet that gas station or 711 didn't cost 80M. And that's just water.

These 2010 German series 3 are not that bad, well the two I have. I find them easier to work on than Japanese, and parts from AliExpress, Alibaba or 2nd world European part manufacturers are fairly priced. I've also had genuine parts and quality aftermarket ones arrive with made in PRC on them, or come from China with made in Germany. I was quoted 5K to change a sump gasket and engine mounts from my local indi. Fair enough that's what the shop can do it for. However with a $130 engine brace from China, $170 in mounts and gasket also from China, plus another $170 in oil/filter ($470 in total) and about 3/4 of a day the sons car was back on the road. I could have paid another $1 to have a brand stamped on my engine mounts but why bother.

I didn't make the shit show, but helping the kids try and understand it first hand has been another part of this all.

[Alfisti]

I wonder if being in such a big city has it's perks. There were two Saab specialists withing 15 minutes of me until the day I sold it, some 15 years after they went bust. I have 7 Porsche dedicated/Exotic Indy's to choose from, professional places, within 20 minutes or so. There's an Alfa specialist 15 mins away too.

Don't get me wrong, it took time to find the right guys and develop relationships but all three are/were reasonable.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Each to his own I guess. I don't have the garage space, the tools, the time, the patience nor the skill set. Especially the patience.

Like fishing to me. I live on a great trout river in Virginia. Literally can walk 100 feet from my front door and cast a hook into the water. ZERO patience for it.

Now, too, I can walk 200 feet over to my shop, lift a BMW on the two-poster and pull a transmission to replace a throwout bearing. Like transcendental meditation...

[Alfisti]

Oh I do pine for home regularly but one thing I love here is casting a line in a small lake full of big mouth bass. I've NFI what I am doing but the kiddies and I love it.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by thebmw

I was referring to the engine/drivetrain which are not something I would ever touch in an EV. And even after doing so, I am sure there will be coding issues.

I'm on my 6th EV (including 2 i3's), and I am yet to have a reason to "touch" engine/trivetrain or battery on any of them.
I did rebuild N14 engine on MINI Cooper S, twice. Second time, I pulled the plug on the experiment and donated car to charity.

In theory, anything can, and eventually will fail.
But replacing EV motors/inverter combo is relatively inexpensive, even if you pay someone to do it. I would be tempted to DIY that job given how tiny those things are.
The battery I would not touch for both discharging and weight/cost reasons.

Originally Posted by XutvJet

There is definitely a very different layer of complexity when working on an EV outside of suspension, drive axle, and brake stuff. They do have cooling systems and certainly can and do spring leaks.

Alas, I can count on one hand the number of car-nut friends who DIY anything on their cars outside of suspension, drive axle, and brake stuff.
EVs could spring coolant leaks, but their integrated thermal management/cooling system (e.g.: Tesla's SuperBottle) is relatively simple compared to the maze of hoses in a modern BMW.
Tesla also publishes all of its manuals online, like this step-by-step guide on replacing the said SuperBottle:
https://service.tesla.com/docs/Model...19C832341.html

Originally Posted by thebmw

That is hilarious and sad simultaneously. Were those mechanics at the dealership, indy, or tire shop?

Independent high-end shops.
One affiliated with local BMW CCA chapter, the other with PCA guys. Both gave me some flavor of "special tools required that we don't have" for EV wheels and/or alignment; both lost my ///M3 business forever.

a

[Davil]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The Porsche dealer in Kansas City charges around $1,000 to do plugs on a 987 and $1,400 on a 997.

Sounds like they’ve gone about as fur as they can go.