03-01-2013, 01:57 PM | #89 |
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Here comes another question;
Power boxes manupilate the signals coming from original Ecu of the car? But what about infos on board computer? Indicate real infos or stock ecu infos? For example consumption infos?
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03-01-2013, 02:29 PM | #90 |
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The consumption will still be correct. It is based on RPM, fuel pressure and injector opening times. The power box can not manipulate these values.
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03-18-2013, 01:25 PM | #91 |
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Any updates on reliable and tested chip tunnings for the 166i yet?
I'm specially interested in one that could be unistalled before going to the dealer and are undetectable after it because I don't want to void my warranty since there are no professional tuners in Brazil that cover the cars warranty. |
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05-16-2013, 09:29 AM | #92 |
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I did some tests with the Chiptronic unit.
I have two 116i units. Production January 2012 and August 2012. I do have some figures on hand and running two identical cars allowed me to come to some conclusions after some tuning of the boxes. Firstly, at this point in time, the box is still the only way to go. No ECU remap is possible at this point in time. Secondly, one of the biggest differences between the 116i and the 118i is the exhaust. The 116i has a very obstructive 2" pipe which limits the power substantially and will in fact prevent and major improvement in power regardless of the power box installed. This is clear above 4200 revs where the power actually can drop because of the restrictive exhaust. Schnitzer claims over 200 HP for both cars yet I haven't seen a third-party dynotune graph which will come even close to this claimed figure. Only photoshop pictures of the graphs are available on the website which have no real data regarding the measurement. At this point in time I achieved 155HP and 290 NM with the standard exhaust and only the module in place. The next mod will be the exhaust and only then we'll be able to see how prone to modifications these little engines really are. |
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05-16-2013, 12:31 PM | #93 |
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Mmmhh, good to know that...
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05-16-2013, 01:04 PM | #94 |
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05-17-2013, 03:46 AM | #95 | |
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Familiar with power at the flywheel and power at the wheels. This measurement done on a rolling road, reading converted to flywheel. Comfort mode, traction off (can only be done in comfort mode), 95 octane. The only difference... 155 HP at 4200 revs... almost like a diesel After that a drop caused by the obstructive exhaust. |
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05-17-2013, 08:40 AM | #96 |
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So what was the power reading on the wheels?
My reading was done directly on the rear hubs with Dynapacks, with the wheels off. That takes rolling resistance out of the picture. |
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05-21-2013, 03:29 PM | #97 | |
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Quote:
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05-21-2013, 07:06 PM | #98 |
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To keep a long story short.... Firstly, one of the ways to detune the 116 and the 114 is to install an exhaust which is smaller in diameter then the bigger 118 brother.
2" exhaust from cat-back is an effective way to detune the car. This can be seen even on the standard engine dyno graph. Secondly, Chiptronic is one of those companies which produces the modules for many other tuners for many years now....Other tuners buy the modules with programmes from Chiptronic and just rebrand them Doubt it whether they would do a "non-such-effective" tune especially that the piggy-back tuning method is based on boosting the standard signal instead of a totaly new timing, ignition and fuel map. |
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05-22-2013, 11:40 AM | #99 | |
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I'm aware that the tunning market works like this...and to be honnest with you I was never a "fan" of the big known guys. I also know that big guys are used to adapt tunning platforms comming from smaller tunners. This is the case on piggybacks but reflash tunes as well... Regardless the true origin of a tunning platform...the big names had always stand for "reliability" and "cosistency" when it comes to performance and tunning specs. When ACS announces certain performance gains for a certain model , seems unlikely that data is manipulated or mistaken. Especialy when it comes for the likes of ACS that they hold a HUGE brand name ,selling millions of euros in not only tunes but other products too its seems unlikely to me that they ruin/risk their name for the 116i tune specs ,which is rather inexistent to the most of the markets. I could accept your claim on the restrictive exhaust , but then again seems unlikely to me that ACS would bother tweaking 116 data to risk their reputation as long as their "fish n chips" is the high performance engines. |
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05-22-2013, 11:52 AM | #100 |
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The map is quite different between the 116i and 118i, the 116i's boost level is slightly lower and drops of at higher revs.
There is also a software 130mph limiter on the 116i to give it a 10mph gap to the 118i. AC's software sets the boost pressure the same on their 116i and 118i boxes and the difference is 200bhp v 204bhp. So it hardly seems the small exhaust section has a massive effect. A 10mm exhaust diameter difference on a 1.6 turbo charged engine is not going to be a 50bhp difference. Cheers Lee Last edited by logiclee; 05-22-2013 at 12:03 PM.. |
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05-22-2013, 12:04 PM | #101 | |
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But the debate here is about a completely different thing... The comments of my friend above are about the accurancy of the numbers. Kamazzi comments that the announced 200hp wouldnt be achievable on an 116i and ACS is making false claims. |
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05-22-2013, 07:00 PM | #102 | |
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I said that the 116i has a very obstructive 2" pipe which limits the power substantially and will in fact prevent any major improvement in power regardless of the power box installed (...) Schnitzer claims over 200HP but yet I haven't seen a third-party dynotune graph which will come even close to this claimed figure. Only photoshop pictures of the graphs are available on the website which have no real data regarding the measurement. As you can clearly see, that differs to what you claim I said Nowhere did I say that 200 HP wouldn't be achievable in an 116i and nowhere did I say that ACS is making false claims. Quite the contrary. I want to believe that ACS did it, and I would love to see the performance graphs of the tuned cars. Moreover, Schnitzer claims 0-100 time in 8.1 secs for the tuned 116i and 7,1 secs for the tuned 118i. That is a second difference for cars with power difference which is negligible. That's a big difference.... And then the improvement: the 116i improves from 136 HP to 204 HP, and the acceleration 0-100 improves from 8,5 to 8,1. That's an improvement of 0,4 seconds. Almost 70 HP improvement in power but in time that translates to 0,4 seconds... makes you think, doesn't it? Who has done the conversion by Schnitzer and dynoed the car before and after? Has anybody seen the real graph from a dyno before and after the conversion? Please show me the facts and let me part with my cash at my local ACS dealer |
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05-23-2013, 05:24 AM | #103 | ||
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To my understanding, statements like the above (in bold letters) implying clearly that ACS claims are unrealiable. Then again it could be my mistake. Quote:
Firstly, lets clarify that the 204Hp number is the spotaneous peak horsepower at some given RPM of the engine. This number alone , is not enough to give you an indication of how the car performs in comparisson to the 210Hp upgrade of 118i nor either justify if the 0.4sec improvement on 0-100 makes sense or not. The question is how this extra torque/power is applied through the revs range & gears individualy. As we are not talking about a complete engine remapping (reflash) but a tunning box which is obviously using the factory performance patern , its reasonable that the improvent below 80mph is only 0.5sec as the 116i's mapping is less agressive (than 118i) in that range. So its not the restrictive exhaust but the limitations comes from the OEM mapping as the tunning box can only enchance but not completely revise the performance on given RPM range (as a reflash would do). Also , the boost mapping on the ACS is different for each different gear. I dont know if this has to do with torque limitations comming from ECU , but full boost is not applicable in every gear (ie 1st ,2nd) hence the 0.4 "only" improvement on accelaration to 80mph. I'm not trying to convince you for anything. I'm not a fanboy of either of tunners myself. I just find it difficult to accept that one of the "legitimate" tunners would ever communicate false performance data ...they have too much to lose if they do that. |
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05-23-2013, 06:27 AM | #104 | |
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DriverZ is quite right. Here is the official ACS UK answer regarding the 116i tuning and performance figures.
http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=20 Quote:
http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=29
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05-23-2013, 09:53 AM | #105 |
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Even though I agree that peak horsepower does nothing to show how an engine actually behaves and performs, I'm not sure how much I trust these tuning boxes anyway.
I mean, I would really like to see actual dyno readings from before and after the installation, because the engines on the 1 series are so underrated from factory. Pretty much all of the tuning boxes I've seen for the 118i promise an upgrade to around 200hp, even the most reputable ones. The thing is, I just took my car to a dyno this past weekend and I got 178whp, which would translate to around 206-211hp on the crank. At the same time, a lot of people are reporting 135-140whp for the 116i, which would translate to around 160-165 atual hp, factory default. I'm not saying that there is no performance to be gained from these ECU piggybacks, but considering that my car already outputs more than the promised figures gains, It's really hard to say what you're actually getting from them. I might go for a custom ECU reflash in the near future (looking into options right now) because they seem a bit more reliable to me. That's my 2c in any case. |
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05-23-2013, 11:30 AM | #107 |
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Gentlemen, that's a lot of theory going on here and a lot of statements which may satisfy some owners and some not.
I'll ask again: has anybody done a box by Schnitzer? Can anybody show a dyno graph with results? Has anybody measured among others the 0-100 times? Or are we just talking about theory? |
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05-23-2013, 12:38 PM | #108 | |
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Its the same way as the theory of the obstructing exhaust... Seems like someone has to pay the price |
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