[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

PHEV M-car? Sounds super heavy. But I digress...

Perhaps the future will deliver EVs that can lap a road course with the same speed and endurance as a ICE-powered vehicle, but we simply aren't there yet. Not even close.

Not with a small pack. They're getting lighter and more compact

Similar power-train set up to i8 but w/Turbo 6 cylinder.

Allowing Zero Emission driving in the city.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by eDrive

Similar power-train set up to i8 but w/Turbo 6 cylinder.

Allowing Zero Emission driving in the city.

To each his own, but for me the desire for zero emission driving ranks someplace below having a version of the owner's manual available in a language I can't read.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

To each his own, but for me the desire for zero emission driving ranks someplace below having a version of the owner's manual available in a language I can't read.

Oh absolutely I'm sure most people can give a flying fuck about tomorrow or what will be affecting the next generation but you might wanna consider it. Soon you will not even be able to drive into the city of London unless your car produces zero emissions.

So vote with your wallet buy what you want and buy it now because eventually you will not even be able to purchase it.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by eDrive

Oh absolutely I'm sure most people can give a flying fuck about tomorrow or what will be affecting the next generation but you might wanna consider it. Soon you will not even be able to drive into the city of London unless your car produces zero emissions.

So vote with your wallet buy what you want and buy it now because eventually you will not even be able to purchase it.

The suggestion that folks who don't want to buy or don't think future is secured by EV's shouldn't be considered that they don't care about the planet, pollution or the future. I suspect you'll find very few people who don't care about any of that, but I'm not convinced that there aren't alternatives to shoving EV's and carbon tax down everyone's throats. The rules and regulations are all coming from government, which I for one don't have much faith in or trust of.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by eDrive

Oh absolutely I'm sure most people can give a flying fuck about tomorrow or what will be affecting the next generation but you might wanna consider it.

My personal vehicle choice will make absolutely zero difference to "tomorrow" or the generations ahead. I actually think it's comical to even insinuate that I could make such an impact one way or the other.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by eDrive

Oh absolutely I'm sure most people can give a flying fuck about tomorrow or what will be affecting the next generation but you might wanna consider it. Soon you will not even be able to drive into the city of London unless your car produces zero emissions.

So vote with your wallet buy what you want and buy it now because eventually you will not even be able to purchase it.

Son, your politically correct EV produces greenhouse emissions during its manufacture, operation, and eventual recycling. You yourself produce greenhouse emissions every time you exhale. The US EPA was allowed to classify CO2 as a pollutant, so all of us merely by breathing are killing the planet. Put your money where you polluting mouth is and stop driving and yapping on the internet. Give up your smart phone, find some dead grass to make your clothes out of, and don't eat any green plants since they counteract your conversion of Oxygen to a greenhouse gas. Please give the property that you live on back to whatever native people lived on it before you, because we all know that non-tech native people were far better stewards of the planet than we modern humans, especially us grumpy old men with our "LUDDITES RULE THE WORLD" tee-shirts.

And then learn some real science and not rely on the shit they brainwashed you with in school. Stop telling everyone else they are killing the planet and don't give a shit "about the children". It is seriously getting old.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Son, your politically correct EV produces greenhouse emissions during its manufacture, operation, and eventual recycling. You yourself produce greenhouse emissions every time you exhale. The US EPA was allowed to classify CO2 as a pollutant, so all of us merely by breathing are killing the planet. Put your money where you polluting mouth is and stop driving and yapping on the internet. Give up your smart phone, find some dead grass to make your clothes out of, and don't eat any green plants since they counteract your conversion of Oxygen to a greenhouse gas. Please give the property that you live on back to whatever native people lived on it before you, because we all know that non-tech native people were far better stewards of the planet than we modern humans, especially us grumpy old men with our "LUDDITES RULE THE WORLD" tee-shirts.

And then learn some real science and not rely on the shit they brainwashed you with in school. Stop telling everyone else they are killing the planet and don't give a shit "about the children". It is seriously getting old.

I guess you are brainwashed yourself you crusty old man.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by eDrive

I guess you are brainwashed yourself you crusty old man.

what's with the "crusty old man" stuff?

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

My personal vehicle choice will make absolutely zero difference to "tomorrow" or the generations ahead. I actually think it's comical to even insinuate that I could make such an impact one way or the other.

Wow.

Sad you cannot see beyond yourself.

You can or cannot make a little different, but the choice is yours.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

what's with the "crusty old man" stuff?

Befitting because I am not your son.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

The suggestion that folks who don't want to buy or don't think future is secured by EV's shouldn't be considered that they don't care about the planet, pollution or the future. I suspect you'll find very few people who don't care about any of that, but I'm not convinced that there aren't alternatives to shoving EV's and carbon tax down everyone's throats. The rules and regulations are all coming from government, which I for one don't have much faith in or trust of.

I can understand your feelings.

I think the self driving is mostly based on insurance and the fact that many youth don't even want to drive.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by eDrive

You can or cannot make a little different, but the choice is yours.

If you're not aware- whenever specific instances of high-profile environmentalists not acting "green" comes up, the standard retort is that "environmentalism isn't about individual choices. It is about enacting systemic change." So don't blame me for following the creed of the environmental loons!

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

If you're not aware- whenever specific instances of high-profile environmentalists not acting "green" comes up, the standard retort is that "environmentalism isn't about individual choices. It is about enacting systemic change." So don't blame me for following the creed of the environmental loons!

I all adds up.

It's actually a collective effort.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Not exactly. Heat buildup is inevitable. After three or four laps the car begins to reduce power output."

How much time do you figure 3 or 4 laps is? I'm being generous in saying 10 minutes. That's why I'm pointing out that in say, 10 minutes of track time the Model 3 will no longer be competitive with a M3 and you'll be in 4-cylinder Honda Accord territory until the car cools down.

There are some gas powered sports cars that can't do 3-4 laps on track either. Cars such as the Civic Type R, BMW 335i, Nissan 370Z, Corvette Z06.

In the end, you are using a car for something it's not designed to do - track. Very few cars do well at track.

The message here is do not buy a Model 3 for track use. I doubt 99.5% of Model 3 buyers ever go to a track.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

From a person that has never been to a track...

Lol at the inaccuracy of this post

Ok, which is inaccurate? All the gas cars I've listed have overheating issues regarding track use. It is well documented.

CTR overheat:
https://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?...tem_id=1329332

335i overheating:
https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412156

370Z overheat:
https://my350z.com/forum/2009-370z/4...d-courses.html

Corvette Z06 overheating:
https://jalopnik.com/fourth-class-ac...-go-1823190855

And for Model 3 users going to the track? Why would you take a car to a track that can only do 10 minutes of track time before it overheats?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

I do at least 5 20 minutes sessions at the track in a day, with friends in 350z, 370z, etc.

Never heard of overheating in my car or my friends cars...

I guess I'm not doing it right...

I am on track every 3 months or so.

370Z stock has heat issues. I've seen more parked than on track most of the time. If you start upgrading the cooling, it can run better. Also, Nismo editions seem to be better with heat. 335i, I've had many friends who brought their cars to the track to end up sitting out most of the day due to cooling issues. With upgraded radiators and oil coolers, it will work ok though. I can run all day in the M3 and never have heat issues.

Another question is.. does it hit 110+ degrees F (43C) at the tracks you run at? Those are pretty normal summer temps around here.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Let the record show that I've never had any heat issues with my 2014 335i, and I've brought it to the track quite a number of times. Actually I find my car's oil temp is lower while lapping!

[Z K]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

I guess it doesn't get as hot on the tracks I go to.

Good point about external temperature and cooling systems. If a car goes on limp mode due to that that's equivalent to a battery getting hot.

Sorry I was defensive on my first response to you. I just have never seen overheating issues with my or other cars (except the occasional old civic, but who knows if their properly maintained, I wouldn't go ahead and say they all have cooling issues).

Thanks,

It gets pretty hot in California - some of the Southern California tracks are in the middle of the desert.

Anyway, there's cooling solutions for many of these cars in these conditions but from the factory, they aren't set up for track use. I think the manufacturer's do push the limits in testing but draw the line where they feel most people would not notice the difference.

I find often the older sports cars are the ones with less issues on track. They're less complicated and without boost (turbo/supercharging) so they don't build up as much heat.

Model 3 has heat issues for sure. At least it has better heat management than the model S. I'd like it for a daily driver but I've no need or budget for a fancy daily commuter car. I'd rather put that money towards a fun car.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Let the record show that I've never had any heat issues with my 2014 335i, and I've brought it to the track quite a number of times. Actually I find my car's oil temp is lower while lapping!

You have a N55. I'm referring to the N54. It will limp mode without upgraded cooling - there's a ton of threads on the e90 forums.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by OnerDriver

That must be why my N55 is the same. Thanks
I agree with what you said above as well.

I guess I should have mentioned n54 335i instead of just saying 335i. I was just trying to give examples of gas powered cars that overheat on track without going into specifics.

Here's a funny bit about the Model S P100D "Race car" that can't do more than 5 minutes on track before overheating. Tesla has a long way to go...
https://jalopnik.com/here-s-what-hap...-th-1827321127

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I think what should be acknowledged is when an ICE-powered car overheats on track it's considered an unexpected failure or flaw in the design; while overheating is completely expected and indeed par for the course with EVs. Big difference.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by eDrive

I guess you are brainwashed yourself you crusty old man.

Nah, I learned science before the internet was invented; when people wrote actual books on the subject. It was called an education. Good luck with saving the planet.