[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by Innovade

Explain how this topic is not relevant to what I am discussing? Specifically, how does an automotive tariff (chicken tax) off topic from a thread about the tariffs on BYD and the EV auto industry. The chicken tax resulted us in paying more for less in the auto industry and hurt consumers as a whole. You have no counter argument to any of the data I have provided to you and resorted to internet brain rot and memes.

"Explain", "How" say you...welp a circular "chicken tax" argument s t i l l underway?!?
...but wait, some guy quoted below acknowledged your topic of concern - - asked & answered AGAIN

Perhaps convince and argue with that guy

Originally Posted by Innovade

You are moving the goal posts now. Commodities being dumped is a separate discussion. My point is about consumer technology and product innovation.

...nuff said, more unproductive chick'n kackling irrelevant, unneeded => move on

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by louielouie

I was headed home after work and saw some headlights I didn't recognize.
After pulling up on it, I realized it was a BYD and was pretty surprised.

Interesting.
Kinda looks like Seal?

Originally Posted by Powerday

BYD is everywhere in Europe these days, so it's always surprising to hear how uncommon they still are in the US. It will be interesting to see whether they eventually find a way into the American passenger car market in a meaningful way.

Originally Posted by TheGeekGuy

I am sure these same, tired arguments were made when the Japanese and the Koreans entered the car market regardless of region.

Not for the next few years.
Xenophobia is on the upswing right now. Same as it was in the 80s, then directed at Japan and Japanese cars:

https://www.quora.com/How-much-bias-...-United-States

Originally Posted by Altamate

OK fine, why do we need a Chinese brand and made EV? Who is embracing them here?

Anyone who is not a far-right loon, and everyone who embraces free-market competition!
Sadly, extremist ends of both parties are running the show around here at the moment. But that too shall pass.

Originally Posted by freakystyly

How many billions has GM received in bail outs?
Hyundai has been building tanks for decades.
Kind of silly arguments.

Indeed.
Detroit apologists only count "government subsidies" when they go to other OEMs. When the benefit Detroit OEMs, they welcome them with open arms.

Originally Posted by freakystyly

Remember when Citroen and Renault were sold in North America but failed to gain traction? Maybe it will be a similar experiment.

Let the market (and not the corrupt politicians) decide - competition improves the breed!

a

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by 25 V8 IS

Here's a question for everyone posting in here: Have any of you ever even BEEN to China?

Never been bitten by a rattle snake either but I know enough to stay away.

Belt and Road Initiative is because China is so benevolent.
How is that working out in Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Zambia, Kenya, Montenegro and Ecuador?

Oh and I import a lot of product from China so I have a clue.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by 25 V8 IS

Actually, when WAS the last time China started a war? I'll wait.

Maybe you have heard of:
Korean War (1950)?
Sino-Indian War (1962)?
Sino-Vietnamese War (1979)?

Even Wikipedia isn't buy that wopper
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ublic_of_China

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by 25 V8 IS

Here's a question for everyone posting in here: Have any of you ever even BEEN to China?

Show of hands please. I went in 2023 and what I witnessed was a society that is far more advanced, cleaner, safer, etc. than it is here in the US.

Am I moving to China? No, I am not. I love the US. But let's stop acting like China is this horrible enemy trying to destroy the US from within.

Actually, when WAS the last time China started a war? I'll wait.

Back in 2008, the FBI was investigating counterfeit Cisco product originating from China. The extent of this investigation was wide spread involving many different individuals. The briefing that is linked below was the unclassified presentation given by Section Chief Raul Roldan. This presentation was leaked out to the public before the FBI was ready to execute warrants and arrests. It forced the FBI to move earlier than they wanted.

The issues that were shown in the presentation are parts that look authentic that would fail in significant numbers in a short amount of time. Or the counterfeit parts would cause network issues as these components would all have the same MAC address causing network conflict issues if two of the same counterfeit products were put on the same layer 2 network segment.

I have worked in IT for a long time. Used to do lots of Cisco routers/firewalls deployments during that time period. The pictures the FBI presented on what a counterfeit WIC-1DSU-T1 card looked like compared to an authentic card was mind blowing. I've handled tons of those cards and I wouldn't have notice the subtle differences. This issue goes beyond lost Cisco profits as many of these devices were deployed in mission critical systems. These parts somehow found their way into legitimate supply chain sources so even buying from a reputable reseller such as CDW didn't guarantee you were safe. All these parts were manufactured in Chinese plants for Cisco. These issues caused a big push to have manufacturers of IT systems to have better supply chain that can be trusted to not have any tampering of the components called TAA. Many Federal agencies now have a requirement that products bid in response to RFPs must be TAA certified.

A good friend of mine who works for Cisco told me at the time, the workers trained to produce these components for Cisco would somehow disappear after a certain amount of time working in the production lines and a whole new crew of workers would be presented that would require Cisco to train the new batch of workers again. It was no secret where those trained workers went and what they were doing.

This is an online hosting of the full FBI briefing:

https://www.slideserve.com/marvel/fb...-cisco-routers

In addition to my reply about Huawei being blocked from providing 5G equipment as part of the cellular upgrade for the US, other concerns have been raised by various people in the know about critical infrastructure equipment being manufactured in China. An example of a critical component are the large power transformers that make up our power grid backbone. From what I recall, there are only three countries that manufacture these transformers: Germany, South Korea, and China. The backlog in fulfilling orders of the transformers are a year to year and a half as of the documentary I'm going to link below. China is starting to provide a large number of transformers that are being installed in the power grid. The concern is the software that is part of the operation of the transformer may contain back doors or malware exposing the power grid to foreign attack.

The documentary is called Grid Down Power Up:

https://vimeo.com/742372251

ETA: After posting my reply, for some reason, the Vimeo link isn't showing up properly even with the Vimeo tags. So I removed the tags for the URL and you'll have to copy and paste to see the video.

These two examples are just the tip of the various concerns and hostile activities China that has been made public. There are much more that have not been made public.

Back to the topic of Chinese EVs, I can see concerns of these cars capturing video images that can be sent back to a Chinese collector. Say a Federal worker buys one of these EVs and then drives that car to work. Think of all the data intel that China can collect. Heck, the Feds announced this year a ban on importing consumer grade routers that are manufactured in China. Whether the concerns are real or warranted is up to one's discretion. But companies such as Asus, TP Link, etc now have to convince the Feds that their products conform to whatever the Feds are using to evaluate data safety. Netgear was subjected to this ban until they were able to get an exemption....we can read between the lines on how that happened.

This topic isn't an easy one due to all the hot buttons it presses such as INFOSEC, free market capitalism, national security, fair competition, etc, etc.

[ASAP]

It would be interesting to see BYD here... it would be a win for consumers but we likely won't see them here (primarily for polical reasons) but also -

1) they could easily undercut domestic competition on price
2) loss of domestic jobs
3) much better built cars than say tesla (i've sat in a BYD seal in Italy and was shocked vs the absolute shiite Tesla pumps out... especially interior)

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by 25 V8 IS

Here's a question for everyone posting in here: Have any of you ever even BEEN to China?

Show of hands please. I went in 2023 and what I witnessed was a society that is far more advanced, cleaner, safer, etc. than it is here in the US.

Am I moving to China? No, I am not. I love the US. But let's stop acting like China is this horrible enemy trying to destroy the US from within.

Actually, when WAS the last time China started a war? I'll wait.

You have no idea, story #1

Two of my close friends created/built a business teaching English to Chinese in China. They worked out of Hong Kong and went all over China setting up schools. They had to work with Chinese businessmen and local governments. They built or modified existing buildings to create the school, then hired teachers and trained everyone. They built quite a few and made a lot of money.

When there were problems, there were no legal solutions as they have no court system. One day after talking to a contractor not doing the work he was paid for, my friend got up, through his chair across the room and walked out. The next day he went back to the worksite and that contractor was doing the work. My friend made note of the situation, he is a big man but violence is not how he wanted to run his business. He talked to a local government official about what he should do next time a contractor was failing to honor his contract, and was told to call the official.

Of course this happened a number of times and the solution of calling the government contact worked as a good solution each time. Till the day he found out why. The government would send someone to threaten the contractors whole family. When they found that out, my friends shut down the business and left.

You have no idea, story #2

I worked for Borden/Hexion Chemicals for 40 years. We primarily make resins/glue for the forest industry. These are formaldehyde(HCHO) based so we also make HCHO. A number of years back when looking for places to expand our business, most or all of the new growth was in China. We decided to find a Chinese partner and build a manufacturing plant of our own in China. A 50/50 partnership using our engineering, our processes, our money and Chinese labor and materials supplied by the partner.

Because of story #1. I knew this was a bad idea, but I was not nearly high enough up the corporate ladder to be listened to. Those of us who knew better were told to shut up and make it work.

There were plenty of early signs of trouble if you cared to look. Materials were often sub standard(eg. High pressure steam valves being reused from retired ships), building practices had no regard for safety. Finally the plant was ready to be commissioned, a close coworker of mine who was one of our engineers on the project had told a couple of the Chinese friends he had made to not open one particular 8” steam valve because it was so old it probably would not stay together. ( he had tried to get it replaced but was overruled by the Chinese partner) That valve blew apart on start up, no one was killed but the valve stem/handle hit the roof of the building 5 stories high. The plant did get up and running and shortly after that our Chinese partner broke the contract, kicked us out of the building, kept everything including our tech, engineering, processes and money. The Chinese government sided with the partner and Hexion got nothing.

Regarding the war question, what do you think happened with Hong Kong?

[Davil]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Back in 2008, the FBI was investigating counterfeit Cisco product originating from China. The extent of this investigation was wide spread involving many different individuals. The briefing that is linked below was the unclassified presentation given by Section Chief Raul Roldan. This presentation was leaked out to the public before the FBI was ready to execute warrants and arrests. It forced the FBI to move earlier than they wanted.

The issues that were shown in the presentation are parts that look authentic that would fail in significant numbers in a short amount of time. Or the counterfeit parts would cause network issues as these components would all have the same MAC address causing network conflict issues if two of the same counterfeit products were put on the same layer 2 network segment.

I have worked in IT for a long time. Used to do lots of Cisco routers/firewalls deployments during that time period. The pictures the FBI presented on what a counterfeit WIC-1DSU-T1 card looked like compared to an authentic card was mind blowing. I've handled tons of those cards and I wouldn't have notice the subtle differences. This issue goes beyond lost Cisco profits as many of these devices were deployed in mission critical systems. These parts somehow found their way into legitimate supply chain sources so even buying from a reputable reseller such as CDW didn't guarantee you were safe. All these parts were manufactured in Chinese plants for Cisco. These issues caused a big push to have manufacturers of IT systems to have better supply chain that can be [...]

In Australia BYD were found to have a hidden SIM that could listen to you with no indication that it was doing so.

There’s a good documentary about them on YouTube. Massive losses, subsidised heavily by their government that allows overseas market stuffing and very low prices. Loads of them down sold down here. Interesting business practice but it certainly works. Appliance buyers don’t care. They get something new and shiny for cheap.

[25 V8 IS]

Originally Posted by Davil

In Australia BYD were found to have a hidden SIM that could listen to you with no indication that it was doing so.

There’s a good documentary about them on YouTube. Massive losses, subsidised heavily by their government that allows overseas market stuffing and very low prices. Loads of them down sold down here. Interesting business practice but it certainly works. Appliance buyers don’t care. They get something new and shiny for cheap.

That is 100% right. They get something shiny and cheap. Something that will completely fall apart on them in a certain amount of miles.

I can totally understand why the US bans Chinese automakers. They would absolutely cannibalize US auto sales. But the problems that would happen with those cheap vehicles would sure piss a lot of people off.

[KillerExcessive]

Originally Posted by Davil

In Australia BYD were found to have a hidden SIM that could listen to you with no indication that it was doing so.

There’s a good documentary about them on YouTube. Massive losses, subsidised heavily by their government that allows overseas market stuffing and very low prices. Loads of them down sold down here. Interesting business practice but it certainly works. Appliance buyers don’t care. They get something new and shiny for cheap.

It “could” eh? Like how my TV, phone, laptop, or any million smart home things could listen to me if they really really wanted?

The boogeyman might care about the government, but definitely not you. I say that as someone who helped write some of the social media software back then that supposedly tracks everyone.

“Appliance buyer” is an interesting term too. I say that only because I was a hardcore appliance hater ever since I was a teenager. Charismatic, emotional cars only. No Manuel no care. All of that. Until I rented a Tesla, and then bought a Tesla. The Tesla now has stayed in the garage for significantly longer than 90% of the 26 cars I’ve bought in my life, precisely because “it’s just an appliance” and it’s easy as shit to own and operate. I do sometimes wonder what the real propaganda is?

I really don’t need the government to tell me what I can and cannot buy; I can more than make those decisions on my own especially in a supposedly free market. I suspect the government knows that too.

Just say “Can’t let the Chinese have any, regardless of logic, truth and consequences.” And that’ll be enough. It’d be more intellectually honest and more respectable of a position to hold.

[Car-Addicted]

Asbestos found in China-sourced wind turbine parts

Asbestos has been discovered in at least 1,000 wind turbines across Britain following the import of components from China, it has been revealed.

The parts, contained in brakes used in lifts and hoists, are understood to have come from third-party Chinese suppliers and contain a white asbestos known as chrysotile.

The type of asbestos has been completely banned in the UK since November 1999, making it illegal to buy, sell or export any materials with it, according to The Sunday Times which first reported the story.

Yes the folks that brought you poison baby formula, toxic dri wall and deadly dog food have done it again. Good luck with that BYD

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by ASAP

It would be interesting to see BYD here... it would be a win for consumers but we likely won't see them here (primarily for polical reasons) but also -

1) they could easily undercut domestic competition on price
2) loss of domestic jobs
3) much better built cars than say tesla (i've sat in a BYD seal in Italy and was shocked vs the absolute shiite Tesla pumps out... especially interior)

just came aback from Madrid and had the same experience with the Seal. Got a ride from the airport and was shocked at the handling and interior. No wonder domestics are shitting their pants lol

[freakystyly]

They're looking to get factories started up over here (for working around the 49,000/year cap import limit).

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2026/06...ars-in-canada/

If they can tie into the existing supply chain it could be huge.

[Mech Spec]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Asbestos found in China-sourced wind turbine parts

Asbestos has been discovered in at least 1,000 wind turbines across Britain following the import of components from China, it has been revealed.

The parts, contained in brakes used in lifts and hoists, are understood to have come from third-party Chinese suppliers and contain a white asbestos known as chrysotile.

The type of asbestos has been completely banned in the UK since November 1999, making it illegal to buy, sell or export any materials with it, according to The Sunday Times which first reported the story.

Yes the folks that brought you poison baby formula, toxic dri wall and deadly dog food have done it again. Good luck with that BYD

Buzz words to fear monger. Asbestos is in lots of things, lots of times accidentally, and it's only dangerous when it becomes airborne and inhaled.

One of the most popular places in the world to drive vehicles offroad has asbestos in the dirt.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by KillerExcessive

It “could” eh? Like how my TV, phone, laptop, or any million smart home things could listen to me if they really really wanted?

The boogeyman might care about the government, but definitely not you. I say that as someone who helped write some of the social media software back then that supposedly tracks everyone.

“Appliance buyer” is an interesting term too. I say that only because I was a hardcore appliance hater ever since I was a teenager. Charismatic, emotional cars only. No Manuel no care. All of that. Until I rented a Tesla, and then bought a Tesla. The Tesla now has stayed in the garage for significantly longer than 90% of the 26 cars I’ve bought in my life, precisely because “it’s just an appliance” and it’s easy as shit to own and operate. I do sometimes wonder what the real propaganda is?

I really don’t need the government to tell me what I can and cannot buy; I can more than make those decisions on my own especially in a supposedly free market. I suspect the government knows that too.

Just say “Can’t let the Chinese have any, regardless of logic, truth and consequences.” And that’ll be enough. It’d be more intellectually honest and more respectable of a position to hold.

This isn't something people want to hear.

Plus working in tech, it's things that are not really new to us, but to the masses it's different.

I also agree, it's better to be honest about it, than run around with x reasons to state why you dislike something, when the root of it is is present.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Mech Spec

Asbestos is in lots of things, lots of times accidentally, and it's only dangerous when it becomes airborne and inhaled.

You mean like in brake shoes and clutch linings?

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by 25 V8 IS

Here's a question for everyone posting in here: Have any of you ever even BEEN to China?

Show of hands please. I went in 2023 and what I witnessed was a society that is far more advanced, cleaner, safer, etc. than it is here in the US.

Am I moving to China? No, I am not. I love the US. But let's stop acting like China is this horrible enemy trying to destroy the US from within.

Actually, when WAS the last time China started a war? I'll wait.

My cousin taught school there for 3 years then went back for more. She really enjoyed it there, loved the people, traveled all over the country. Didn't have a bad word to say. I have students from China every semester as well.

The US is not anywhere near the top in anything globablly unless you count chronic disease, obesity, & healthcare costs.

[freakystyly]

That isn't a unique to China thing. It's well documented that 70-90% of all new cars with wireless tech have been collecting data on all sorts of things they have no business doing. Not just driving habits but also biometrics, cabin conversations, etc, etc.

It's just a case of the devil you know.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

That isn't a unique to China thing. It's well documented that 70-90% of all new cars with wireless tech have been collecting data on all sorts of things they have no business doing. Not just driving habits but also biometrics, cabin conversations, etc, etc.

It's just a case of the devil you know.

True, but most or all the rest just want to monetize the data. China intends to weaponize it.

[x622]

Originally Posted by 25 V8 IS

Here's a question for everyone posting in here: Have any of you ever even BEEN to China?

Show of hands please. I went in 2023 and what I witnessed was a society that is far more advanced, cleaner, safer, etc. than it is here in the US.

Am I moving to China? No, I am not. I love the US. But let's stop acting like China is this horrible enemy trying to destroy the US from within.

Actually, when WAS the last time China started a war? I'll wait.

I've been many times. There are good things and bad things. There is a cost associated with importing the third world into your country, and you get to see the result first hand.


https://www.manager-magazin.de/unter...c-26ed1fe2129f


If BYD comes here, automakers are fucked. This is not car maker vs car marker, it's state-subsidized car maker vs car marker. The whole chinese economy is not the same, and isn't being played the same as western markets. This is not regular "free markets".

[Frostynorth]

Originally Posted by x622

If BYD comes here, automakers are fucked. This is not car maker vs car marker, it's state-subsidized car maker vs car marker. The whole chinese economy is not the same, and isn't being played the same as western markets. This is not regular "free markets".

Exactly. This isn’t competition.
It’s awful that Canada is allowing this, but it’s not a sane country.

(Link is paywalled, btw)

[JamesBMer]

Originally Posted by louielouie

I was headed home after work and saw some headlights I didn't recognize.

After pulling up on it, I realized it was a BYD and was pretty surprised. I've tried to look it up online but there's not much on whether or not they're legal in the US. Looks like there's a facility in Lancaster for commercial vehicle production so maybe this is a company car. Kinda neat so I thought I'd share with the community.

Here's some photos. Apologies as they're not the best.

Attachment 3977789
Attachment 3977791

Nice catch! I wonder if it was imported privately or if it's tied to BYD's operations in California. Either way, it's definitely not something you see every day.