02-07-2021, 08:04 AM | #46 | |
Captain
961
Rep 799
Posts |
Quote:
I think BMW and many car makers are floundering, the only one I see with the right vision and commitment to the changing industry is VW. Their CEO seems to truly understand the storm that is coming, admit they are dead in the water without a complete overhaul and lay plans to "try" and get out ahead of it. Last edited by neilum; 02-07-2021 at 08:10 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
1
stein_325i25263.50 |
02-07-2021, 08:17 AM | #47 |
Second Lieutenant
278
Rep 268
Posts |
I think BMW has got old like its most loyal customers including myself. Its has been very successful but the newer generation wants other things from its cars. Global warming is bearing down on us and they want change. I think BMW and the German auto industry can survive but it will need to change. I think that right now VW is making a valid attempt with its new electric ID cars. I see BMW and Mercedes dipping their toes in the water but will be forced to change.
|
Appreciate
1
chassis7597.00 |
02-07-2021, 10:07 AM | #48 | |
Post Advisor
1821
Rep 1,773
Posts |
Quote:
My kids and all of their friends think that the new BMWs are absolutely ugly and they have zero desire to ever own one. Their families can afford any car they want. They also are shun bigotry and discrimination and think that BMWs social media and marketing team are absolutely disgusting. |
|
Appreciate
3
|
02-07-2021, 10:58 PM | #50 |
Captain
943
Rep 750
Posts |
Recent BMW Commercials
In case you haven't seen, these are BMW's recent commercials. Assuming BMW hasn't lost its mind (admittedly not a great assumption), I'm trying to understand what BMW is going for, what is its direction with these commercials? It's just baffling.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-08-2021, 08:51 AM | #51 |
First Lieutenant
549
Rep 384
Posts |
I have no love for Doug, but he's mostly not wrong. BMW has given up on their enthusiast market, completely alienating them in favor of zoomers that can't afford their cars anyway.
Other than picking up a used M2C/CS, I don't see myself ever purchasing a BMW again at this point. |
02-08-2021, 09:01 AM | #52 |
Private First Class
120
Rep 162
Posts |
The worlds most important car market, China, loves big grills. It's as simple as that.
But I must admit the new large grill looks good on both the i4 (concept at least) and the iX, just not the 3- and 4-series. So, on BEV it's good, but on ICE it's bad. |
Appreciate
1
Machinebuilder277.50 |
02-08-2021, 11:07 AM | #53 |
Post Advisor
1821
Rep 1,773
Posts |
That's been the excuse thrown around here. But the reality is not that simple. Dig deeper. There is a fundamental problem with the people at BMW. See the above posts.
|
Appreciate
8
DrFerry6748.00 stein_325i25263.50 Moflow2495.50 mkoesel7537.00 OG///M1004.50 SteveinArizona3088.00 ried808.00 tetsuo1111234.50 |
02-08-2021, 12:42 PM | #54 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
2496
Rep 1,602
Posts |
Quote:
BMW has what...4 different front ends for the 3/4 series platform depending on trim level and body style right? You're telling me they can't come up with a couple more front ends for the USDM market that don't have the huge "china face?" Yes, the Chinese market is big, but the U.S. market is still quite large. You know what market is smaller than both though? The European market. And yet BMW designs entire diesel engines for that market. But we're saying a new front fascia is too difficult to produce for the second biggest market in the world? Another example would be Toyota designing like 4 or 5 different mid-sized sedans for their domestic market. Did Toyota really need a bunch of RWD Camry alternatives when the Camry platform is RIGHT THERE? And did they need to give each of those RWD mid-sized cars unique styling? I don't know, but all of that seems like a lot more work than making a new front end for the 4-series. And again, the Japanese domestic market is significantly smaller than the North American one. |
|
Appreciate
4
|
02-08-2021, 02:16 PM | #55 |
Lieutenant General
19120
Rep 14,187
Posts
Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA
|
More like coke.
__________________
2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3 IG: Raging_G82 Last edited by jmg; 02-08-2021 at 06:25 PM.. |
Appreciate
3
|
02-08-2021, 07:06 PM | #56 |
Captain
684
Rep 749
Posts
Drives: M3 /M2C/540
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2018 BMW M3 [0.00]
2021 BMW M2 [10.00] 2018 BMW 540 [0.00] 2013 Porsche Boxster S [0.00] 2013 BMW M3 [0.00] |
I found Doug's commentary on BMW's circa 2001 lineup compelling. There were legitimately multiple desirable cars in that lineup. BMW had a special lineup of cars contributing to the intrinsic value of a special brand. Tough to argue against that being the peak. BMW has since sold more cars, but that is a result of dramatically expanding the product line and leveraging brand equity.
Today, the brand no longer feels special. But, in fairness, special is now defined in new ways. If the old tag line was "the ultimate driving machine", what is it in the future? I am 52 and have owned 9 BMWs. Life's been good and I like to think that my wife and I have 15 cars ahead of us. Going forward, I may keep an old BMW in the garage, but BMW is no longer the default choice when shopping new. |
02-09-2021, 02:08 AM | #57 |
Captain
981
Rep 928
Posts |
The whole thing about the Chinese wanting bigger grills is an urban legend.
I happen to have a great deal of friends who are Asian, and they HATE the big grills. This fallacy was most likely started from some vague, somewhat racist leaning group. . |
Appreciate
2
SteveinArizona3088.00 bmw1racer1004.50 |
02-09-2021, 02:22 AM | #58 |
Moderator
15432
Rep 8,112
Posts |
BMW is totally lost, both from a design point and a marketing point in my view. The marketing strategy to alienate fans and owners of some of the older BMWs were very odd.
It does not help when you have Domagoj Dukec and Adrian van Hooydonk thinking it is great when they get negative reactions to their new designs which they take as a positive. I admit that I am stuck in the past but BMW was the ultimate driving machines back then; driver and machine wrapped around in a superb and good looking chassis.
__________________
Visit my (mainly) BMW gallery http://jetone.co.uk and BMW miniature model collection http://bmw-miniatures.co.uk |
Appreciate
6
|
02-09-2021, 03:20 AM | #59 |
Crusty Old Navy Chief
25402
Rep 1,705
Posts
Drives: 2022 X3 M40i, 1983 911SC
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Ottawa
|
Actually, Tokuo Fukuichi sold them on the idea
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-09-2021, 06:54 AM | #60 | |
Post Advisor
1821
Rep 1,773
Posts |
Quote:
If someone wants to compare to Lexus, there's no comparison. While Lexus grills are big, they flows incredibly well, are symmetrical, and fit the theme of the entire design language. |
|
02-09-2021, 06:55 AM | #61 | |
Captain
939
Rep 709
Posts
Drives: 06 Black Sapphire Z4MR
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Ontario
|
Quote:
__________________
Revolution of our Times
I will return to the track, one day. |
|
02-09-2021, 09:25 AM | #62 |
Banned
1145
Rep 661
Posts |
Im pretty sure BMW isn't targeting most people on a bimmerpost forum.
I would say most people here are enthusiasts about performance models and they aren't enthusiasts regarding leasing/buying entry level 3, 5, X3, X5 models. Bmw, Lexus, MB, Audi are all trying to not lose market share to people who want the entry level luxury car with brand panache, and those buyers are flocking to Tesla. Tesla has also cornered the market of people who just aren't into cars. I can understand traditional car companies scrambling to get these Tesla buyers, but I don't think they'll make a significant dent in Tesla sales and Tesla's market share will continue to grow. Until people stop viewing Elon Musk like he's Tony Stark, and Tesla stops being "cool" among the masses, I think the competing auto companies will continue to struggle to get people into their electric cars but you need to develop the tech to future proof your cars as ICE go away. It's like if Tesla started targeting M buyers; they would not be very successful. Also, the new bmw design language for their electric cars is fugly. If they make a decent looking car it'll help, or do what Lexus is going to do, redesign the cars as needed and electrify all these pointless entry level cars like the aforementioned 3, 5, x3, x5, etc. Keep a few ICE models around like those in the M division and continue growing market share. Another option for bmw, is to go back to some of their classic design language that people look back at with nostalgia. Retro is definitely marketable, so why not make an electric 2002 homage and offer it with an electric or hybrid option? Could even make an M variant. I think this would be really successful and help bmw carve out their own niche based on design language that historically works. Just my opinion obv. I'm no expert but a consumer looking at certain car buying trends and anecdotal evidence from the cars I've seen my family/friends purchase. make this thing with an electric motor: |
Appreciate
3
|
02-09-2021, 09:37 AM | #63 | |||
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
25264
Rep 8,764
Posts |
Quote:
Apparently the idea behind a retro modern EV BMW saw positive reception. Quote:
Quote:
Full Article: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/ret...-happening?amp |
|||
Appreciate
1
Sublime001144.50 |
02-09-2021, 10:09 AM | #64 |
Private First Class
154
Rep 189
Posts |
I think BMW is forgetting the hand that feeds it.
The reason China and other growing markets desire BMW is because western countries elevated it into a luxury brand. And that was because of us enthusiasts. We were the ones driving demand for sporty, well engineered sedans. Even if they cost more, we were happy to fork over the cash (and fork it over again for repairs). And then we told our neighbours and friends. I personally am responsible for 10-15 new BMW purchases amongst my friends and coworkers. What do you think I’d tell them today? Get a tesla or a Porsche. There’s no other choices unless you want a supercar. So if you abandon the root, eventually the whole tree dies. |
02-09-2021, 10:16 AM | #65 |
Banned
1145
Rep 661
Posts |
Yeah I don't get what BMW is trying to do, especially with styling. I don't think grill-gate is such a big deal on the M3/4, but that i4 is really unattractive. Maybe the design language tested well in focus groups in Europe but I predict this thing will be a massive flop.
Maybe they're throwing everything at a dartboard and seeing what sticks. Retro def sells. Another example to add is the Honda E. I'm not into electric cars at all but I think this thing looks great. Just do something simple and classic BMW like the 02 Reminiscence Concept |
Appreciate
2
stein_325i25263.50 Machinebuilder277.50 |
02-09-2021, 10:26 AM | #66 | |
Private First Class
154
Rep 189
Posts |
Quote:
Thing is, BMW didn’t need to do that. They’re already a globally known and respected brand. They need to deliver on the promise of their brand. Huge grilles and a million varieties of the Pontiac Aztec aren’t going to do that. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|