05-20-2022, 02:07 PM | #573 |
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Not sure what a race motor means. My brothers GTR is 1200+ at the wheels. It has over 10,000 miles on it. Never a hick-up. Changes oil and runs some 93 octane through every now and then. He has run 1/2 mile events and dragged it a bunch and I beat the shit out of it couple times a month. Guess it depends on the builder and tuner. Cicio Baby😉
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05-20-2022, 03:00 PM | #574 | |
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Thanks for making my point |
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05-20-2022, 03:14 PM | #575 | |
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Not race engines that see very limited use and still need frequent rebuilds. |
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05-20-2022, 03:45 PM | #576 | ||
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05-23-2022, 11:31 PM | #577 |
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Moto Miwa reviews 2023 Nissan Z and makes comparison to A90 Supra
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05-24-2022, 09:39 AM | #578 |
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Looks like Nissan neutered the engine a bit with ECU nannies to ensure the engine and clutch last through the warranty period. Jason starts talking about this at the 5:00 mark. Just a few highlights as this is the stuff that early reviewers didn't disclose.
Last edited by heavyD^2; 05-24-2022 at 09:47 AM.. |
05-24-2022, 10:38 AM | #580 | |
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05-24-2022, 11:49 AM | #581 | |
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Inline 6 motors are inherently robust. The N54 and N55 motors were open deck and could handle massively higher power levels than stock. Rarely are there issues with those blocks. The biggest issue with the short block in those cars is rod bearings, but B58 spin those as well. B58s also don't have iron cylinder liners, rather they have plasma coating in place of a liner. The issue there is that the coating can degrade with excessive fueling/leaking injector/heavy knock and the B58 block then becomes toast. Many B58s have died an early death due to plasma coating failure.
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05-24-2022, 01:05 PM | #582 | |
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05-24-2022, 01:48 PM | #583 | |
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Will be interested to see the actual HP numbers BMW release, but rumors are for the base to have 450 and over 500 easily for the Comp.
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05-24-2022, 01:58 PM | #584 | |
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Base could tick just under $60k. The comp will definitely start over $60k. MSRP's just keep climbing due to inflation. G87 M2 is a completely different class of vehicle, we talking $20k+ msrp difference over new Z. Last edited by M3WC; 05-24-2022 at 02:05 PM.. |
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05-24-2022, 02:03 PM | #585 | |
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You seem to have missed his note about being extremely hard on the Z and it never overheating. What it can handle on the track waits to be seen. The issues noted mostly sound like the typical conservative Japanese safeguards/nannies. I imagine tuners will figure out how to fix those issues as these will be drift machines for many. As late model BMW 6MT owner (M235), I can attest to the fact that BMW is far from perfect and has gone to great lengths to deaden the manual driving experience and save the 6MT from damage. For example, BMW has using clutch delay valves in their 6MTs for well over a decade now to reduce driveline shock on hard shifts. The delay valve results in very inconsistent feel and many of us have replaced the stock slave cylinder with an E series slave that has no delay valve. Also, many M2 6MT owners report severe power delays on hard 1-2 and 2-3 shifts even with all nannies off and on stock and modified cars. I've felt this with my M235 on occasion, but only with certain tunes. Lastly, only M cars are really designed for hard track use, more specifically, they have upgraded oiling systems and baffled oil pans to handle sustained high G loads as well as upgraded cooling systems. You definitely would not want to take you're non-M BMW on a track with sticky tires without addressing the oiling system or else you run the risk of a spun rod bearing. I also watched a 2010 911S at an HPDE event last week blow it's motor (likely a head gasket). No car is perfect.
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05-24-2022, 02:10 PM | #586 |
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I completely agree. Vastly different, but the top of the line Z will be very close price wise to the base M2, which would still destroy it in every way.
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05-24-2022, 02:14 PM | #587 | |
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Supra also has these ecu nannies issues. Jack Ding has been pushing the A90 Supra platform more than most. Early on he dealt with heat issues. Traction control issues, cutting power. TC would not stay off for more than one lap. The transmissions likes to pop out of manual mode constantly. It has been a battle tuning the A90 for heavy track use. It is quick, but like most vehicles it needs mods for heavy track use. Last edited by M3WC; 05-24-2022 at 02:21 PM.. |
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05-24-2022, 02:18 PM | #588 |
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05-24-2022, 02:23 PM | #589 | |
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But I guess if people want to tear up their street cars pretending to be a race car driver, good for them. |
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05-24-2022, 02:25 PM | #590 |
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I watched the video last night where it got spanked by a supra and a mach1 mustang in the quarter. They blamed the Bridgestone vs. Michelin tires. I believe the times were 12.2 to 12.5 and the manual at 12.8.
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05-24-2022, 02:34 PM | #591 |
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The top line Z is $53k, but even the performance being only $10k away from the base M2 is well worth the extra money for what you're getting in the M2 versus the Z. That's all i'm saying. The M2 is/will be on another level in comparison.
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05-24-2022, 02:35 PM | #592 | |
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A Nismo version will be more of a comparison to a G87 M2. Again the base Z is $39.9k, $20k+ less than a G87 M2. These cars aren't even remotely in the same price category. The better question is why spend $50k on a Per trim Z, when the rwd M240 will start at $46.5k? Last edited by M3WC; 05-24-2022 at 02:48 PM.. |
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05-24-2022, 02:51 PM | #593 | |
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The B58 isn't an S58 (or S55). If it was, BMW would have used the B58 block and head for the S58. They didn't. BMW didn't push the N55 in the OG M2 past "365hp" (it really made around 400hp/420tq) because they have long term reliability requirements and they knew some would be road raced. The biggest issue was intercooling. It ran the same IC as every other F series N55 car. An upgraded IC and mild tune is all that's really needed to reliably get another 40-50whp and 50-70wtq for the track. You can easily push more with fueling upgrades and way more with relatively cheap turbo swap. N54s and N55s have shown that they can handle massively more power than stock and closely rivaling that of the B58. The N54s and N55s just require additional fueling and turbo(s). Their open deck blocks aren't a problem when it comes to stuff breaking. Rods and pistons almost always give up before the block does in the N54 and N55. The N54, N55, B58, and S55 all have their Achilles heals, especially once you start adding 25%+ more power than stock. Everyone is so focused on the big parts, but the reality is it's usually a little part that can't handle the additional power over the long term is what ultimately takes these motors out.
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05-24-2022, 02:57 PM | #594 |
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^This. If you want to really "track" a street car, expect to pay a pretty penny to make it reliably handle 10+ back to back laps without shredding a set of tires, cooking the brakes, overheating, going into power reduction, etc.
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