04-28-2013, 05:56 PM | #23 | ||
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I find it difficult to believe that violin makers of the past just lucked upon some perfect, unreproducable combination of wood grain, humidity and shape. And I find it even more difficult to believe that modern makers are unable to reproduce an equal or better product. The burden of proof is surely on those who believe a Stradivarius sounds better to prove it conclusively; until then it's just supposition. Quote:
Nonetheless you pose an interesting hypothesis, someone should test it. |
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04-29-2013, 02:35 AM | #24 | |||
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You know what it takes?
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There are several examples of artisans pulling off tricks that remain a mystery to us today. The Pyramids and the Builders of Incan Peru are 2 that come immediately to mind. Quote:
Finally, let me say that this has been an enjoyable and interesting debate, your Dunning-Kruger jibe not withstanding. I respect your 'if you can't measure it, it ain't real' viewpoint, not least because it will save you a lot of money and protect you from the hi-fi shysters, of which there are many. On the other hand don't throw the baby out with the dishwater. There are many products out there that sound superior, for reasons we don't fully understand....vacuum tube's sonic superiority being one major one. And there are products that sound better for reasons we do understand and can measure but which are denied because they don't fit with the dogma.....wire being one such example. In that regard, this paper by Ben Duncan makes interesting reading. http://www.russandrews.com/images/ar...ion16Feb09.pdf Remember, there's an easy way to check the efficacy of a hi-fi tweak or product upgrade. After a period of acclimatization simply reverse it. And if you like the music the same or better, don't use or buy it. Finally, and with respect, time and experience will ultimately teach you that not everyone that holds an alternative opinion to yours is an uneducated chump. Reject everyone with an alternate view and you'll never learn and grow. Thanks for the tips on posting quotes in boxes. Most appreciated Last edited by SteveC; 04-29-2013 at 06:31 AM.. |
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04-29-2013, 04:56 AM | #25 | |
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I've just checked my iTunes collection. Most of my stuff is at 256 with some at 320 and a few at 192. Can you get anything approaching 1400 in iTunes?
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04-29-2013, 05:51 AM | #26 |
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No. If you buy from iTunes its 256. You have to get elsewhere or import from CD to have anything higher. If you rip a CD, rip it as a WAV file as this is uncompressed format.
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04-29-2013, 09:38 AM | #27 | ||||
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The point is it might well be "what we've assumed for 300 years" but I wouldn't agree you could go so far as to say "what we've known for 300 years". This study is the first attempt at objective evidence, and I don't consider a lack of attempts to refute it as evidence to the contrary. We have an opening salvo, now the burden of proof rests on those who assume Strads have as yet undetermined magical powers. Quote:
What I said was: if you can't measure it, it's not worth paying for. Put another way: if a difference can't be reliably measured -- either with electronics, microphones, or double-blind tests -- it will almost certainly be too small to worry about. You might think it's much the same thing, but to me there's a world of difference between this and claiming "it ain't real". Furthermore I would not say all purchasing decisions need to be made on a purely analytical basis. There's nothing at all wrong with buying a fancy pair of speakers because they look awesome, or a certain power amplifier because you love staring at the illuminated VU meters, or a Stradivarius because it's an object of beauty. As long as you're aware why you're choosing something, the reasons don't have to be rational. Quote:
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At least in the world of cars, enthusiasts understand that there are some things we can measure (0-100 times, horsepower, weight, steering response, etc) and some things in the eye of the beholder (aesthetics, ergonomics, comfort, etc). We can discuss things like weight distribution, differentials, plastics, turbo lag, value for money, torque curves and suspension setups. Yet car enthusiasts rarely muddy the water between objective engineering and experiential evidence. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To change the subject, some entertaining YouTube videos: |
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04-29-2013, 09:48 AM | #28 |
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And 256kbps AAC is completely "transparent". As far as human ears are concerned, for all intents and purposes it's a perfect copy with no appreciable differences to the CD.
In other words, relax! A song bought from iTunes (or Amazon, or Play Store) is worthy of being played on the finest equipment money can buy. |
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04-29-2013, 05:49 PM | #29 | |
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And how about DAB+, I assume that's good quality too? I should add that this has been one of the most interesting threads on the forum. I know how much time you guys have put into your respective responses.
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04-29-2013, 05:50 PM | #30 | |
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This is real easy to check
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http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399711,00.asp Last edited by SteveC; 04-29-2013 at 06:03 PM.. |
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04-29-2013, 07:54 PM | #31 |
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It entirely depends on the broadcaster; DAB+ can be anywhere from fantastic to not much better than FM. The codec used is HE-AAC v2 which is quite modern and surprisingly performant at low bitrates.
In Australia, music channels (e.g. ABC Jazz) tend to be encoded at 80 kbps. Not CD quality by any stretch, but it's surprisingly good. It's certainly much, much better than FM. (80 kbps might not seem like a lot, but HE-AAC v2 is just about CD quality at rates as low as 128 kbps.) Talk channels tend to be encoded at 64 kbps. Plenty enough for talk and even the occasional music interlude. However some channels can be as low as 48 kbps, and that includes Melbourne rebroadcasts of Gold 104.3 and Mix 101.1. Shows how much they can wring out of this codec though! Last edited by AussieSimon; 04-29-2013 at 08:23 PM.. |
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04-29-2013, 08:16 PM | #32 | ||
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Run that test for real. Go on. You'll surprise yourself. Quote:
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07-01-2013, 10:13 AM | #33 | |
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Could you also confirm whether you have standard or pro media? Thanks! |
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02-04-2014, 08:31 AM | #34 |
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Ok,maybe a little late but had to react on this one,
Aussiesimon and SteveC you two guys should rent a room talk together and win a nobel price for those speeches! :-) I also have a HK sound system and to my ears it sounds amazing. I have been in cars with over 2500 watts of bass and tweeters from here to the ends of the earth. The HK comes very close to quality of sound from aftermarket ice. So no need for me anymore to put amplifiers,subwoofers and tweeters and the extra weight that comes with it in my car. |
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02-04-2014, 12:23 PM | #35 |
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I listened to HK on my test drive; it was rather tinny at low volumes but warmed up at higher levels. I never blast my music out and have never been a fan of HK stuff so went for BMW Advanced and am very happy with it - low volume sound reproduction is better IMO but I haven't tried full whack (and probably won't).
I've had several custom installs in cars with good results and often sound check bands (including my dad's - he an ex pro bass player!). Miles from being an "expert" but in the case of the little BMW, the mid option was more appealing. I'm not one to just automatically jump at the most expensive option. I think the best results would be from Advanced with your own tweeters and crossover. Some might want to upgrade the Amp but 200(ish) watts is plenty for me. |
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02-04-2014, 04:49 PM | #36 |
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Has aftermarket ICE ever really been about useable fidelity or has it been more about soundoff's?
No matter what you use to listen to music in a car, if it's on the move then as a compromised acoustic environment, there is a limit to the quality of the sound that can be appreciated.
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02-05-2014, 01:51 PM | #37 |
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I praise my HK so much! It was quite a risk to buy it without testing, but i took the plunge since I'm a little headphone audiophile and couldn't stand the standard speakers. HK sounds absolutely awesome and it's a steal for the price (I hope BMW don't read this and wind up the price!).
My default bass and treble settings is "0" (the middle) with optional adjusting to -1 with some albums (i.e. -1 bass Atoms For Peace's Amok). Bass and treble are up to one's taste, but I highly recommend to pull down what's too high instead of pump up what's too low. The left/right and front/back balance is really important too. 3 steps to the right and 3 steps to back makes me feel in the middle. Test which settings sounds best to you by closing eyes before adjusting. |
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