[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Bryan took it to a bank, which is an institution that trades money as a business. I cannot believe that it's not the bank's responsibility to make sure the check is valid before accepting it. Bryan is an easy going guy, but if it were me I'd contact my attorney on that account immediately.

Well, in strictly legal terms, it is NOT the bank’s responsibility to make sure the check is genuine before accepting it. They are just the middleman. It is your responsibility to know your seller. If you just think about it, there is absolutely no way a bank could check the genuineness of every check they take for deposit or cash from their customers. I do agree though that at the very least given this particular situation, with a $75,000 cashier’s check, they should have verified the genuineness of the routing number.

[Hit_Apex]

It's obvious there are some facts related to the check that we don't have. To suggest the Bank that accepted the check is at fault is short sighted - premature at best. Let's focus on finding the car because no one here is in a position to solve the check issue.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

It's obvious there are some facts related to the check that we don't have. To suggest the Bank that accepted the check is at fault is short sighted - premature at best. Let's focus on finding the car because no one here is in a position to solve the check issue.

which is why this screams, content vs scam to me. sick world in social media. even if "content" it is educational in the sense that I brushed up on cashier check regulations

[tturedraider]

Oh, one other endorsement option the bank has. With this one they take on quite a bit of responsibility. Let’s say you take your spouse’s paycheck to the bank to deposit to your joint checking account, but you forget to get him or her to endorse it first. If you are just depositing it into your joint account and not getting any cash back and the bank knows you and trusts you they have an endorsement stamp they can put on the check in the absence of the payee’s signature. “Deposited to the Account of the Within Named Payee. Absence of Endorsement Guaranteed” By doing that the bank guarantees the validity of how the check was negotiated to the bank it is drawn on. This endorsement by the bank gets used most often for businesses that forget to stamp their own endorsement on checks they present for deposit to their checking account.

[SpacegrayMe90]

Subscribed!


Scumbag activity!


Is the consensus that a wire or cash is the best option? With all the scammers nowadays should one meet the buyer at the bank and deposit the cash right away to determine the validity of the cash before handing over the title? One can seem very genuine in the midst of the transaction but knowingly try to rob you blind.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by SpacegrayMe90

Subscribed!


Scumbag activity!


Is the consensus that a wire or cash is the best option? With all the scammers nowadays should one meet the buyer at the bank and deposit the cash write away to determine the validity of the cash before handing over the title? One can seem very genuine in the midst of the transaction but knowingly try to rob you blind.

I've accepted cash or cashiers check, but always met at the buyer's bank and stood there as the teller drew up the cashier's check. Buying a car recently, I had the seller meet me at my bank, but he wanted cash, not a cashiers check. Took a little while, but they accommodated it.

[SpacegrayMe90]

Originally Posted by dfox

I've accepted cash or cashiers check, but always met at the buyer's bank and stood there as the teller drew up the cashier's check. Buying a car recently, I had the seller meet me at my bank, but he wanted cash, not a cashiers check. Took a little while, but they accommodated it.

"I've accepted cash or cashiers check, but always met at the buyer's bank and stood there as the teller drew up the cashier's check. "

Is this Full Proof?

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by SpacegrayMe90

"I've accepted cash or cashiers check, but always met at the buyer's bank and stood there as the teller drew up the cashier's check. "

Is this Full Proof?

lol unless the bank is fake and everyone is in on it, then yes seems full proof

[SpacegrayMe90]

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

lol unless the bank is fake and everyone is in on it, then yes seems full proof

LOL. I've only sold one car in my life, and that was a while back before scamming took shape. Everything else were trades at the dealer.

[MadBullogna]

Using a reputable escrow service would be the next best thing, IMO, if unable to be physically present in the branch as the buyer has their bank issue the certified check.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by SpacegrayMe90

"I've accepted cash or cashiers check, but always met at the buyer's bank and stood there as the teller drew up the cashier's check. "

Is this Fool Proof?

Yes, meeting at the bank and watching the teller draw up the check is fool proof.

[M5Rick]

Until payment is guaranteed keep hold of the car.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Yes, meeting at the bank and watching the teller draw up the check is fool proof.

not unless I create a fake bank (think ocean's eleven) have people in their impersonating your bank. Hack your phone to make you think the address is legit... then it is fool proof.

[WilcoJunoHotel]

In the past, I have accepted cashier's checks and had no problems. However, for the past few vehicle sales I have insisted on wire transfer because of horror stories like these. Yes, the buyer thinks I am being a PITA and yes it does delay the sale by a few hours but it is the best way. If the buyer is getting a loan for the vehicle, they can get the check made out to them, deposit it their bank and then wire transfer the funds to your bank. Only takes a few hours and since most of us have instant online access to your bank accounts nowadays, you know right away when the money is deposited.

These scammers are very brazen. I once had a guy mail me a fraudulent check for a motorcycle thereby committing mail fraud. I realized he was trying to scam me so I never finished the deal. I even had his phone number and I reported him to the FBI but I never heard from them - they likely won't do anything unless someone is actually harmed. The scammer probably went on to scam someone else - it is what they do.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by M2siast

You keep talking about tracking devices.

You do know it's a felony to have a tracking device in someone's car, yes? Why on earth would an upstanding person have a tracking device on someone's car?

I meant like lojack, which is guess would be de coupled from the car at sale. Might be prudent to keep it in for a few days.


Or you “forgot” an AirTag.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Well, I get that's something you'd do. But understand that people in general don't commit felonies, so that's the reason why they don't have a tracker on the car, to answer your original question.

And understand the laws in Canada are not the same as the laws in the United States and the laws in the United States vary from state to state, so your declaration this would be a felony is without basis. There are lots of things that are illegal these days in Canada that aren’t illegal in the United States. So far we haven’t started putting people in jail for exercising their right to free speech or religious expression.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by M2siast

1- Felony is an american concept. No such thing in Canada.
2- I believe installing a tracking device in someone's car is a FEDERAL crime in the US, I could be wrong, I doubt there's a single state or county who will allow it.
3- RE: "things that are illegal in Canada and not in the US": Non-sequitur, irrelevant to the discussion. We're only talking about Kies and his F80, your opinion on other countries [sic] laws is irrelevant and inopportune.

As is yours. You said it.

[tracer bullet]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I do agree though that at the very least given this particular situation, with a $75,000 cashier’s check, they should have verified the genuineness of the routing number.

I actually thought that was standard, but yeah, I can see it can vary depending on the bank, teller, how busy they are, if they are itching to go to lunch, etc.

I sold a car once long ago, the buyer brought a cashiers check and we went to the bank together with it. We sat off to the side for 5-10 minutes while someone actually called up the other persons bank to make sure the check was real / funds were available. I guess I don't know the details but they did do some work on it. Good reminder to be sure this happens if I ever repeat a sale that way.

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Yes, meeting at the bank and watching the teller draw up the check is fool proof.

So, since you were in the industry and know things, can the buyer empty the account and / or close it before you get a chance to go deposit that check?

For $75k I might actually create an account at the buyers bank for myself, and have it go direct while we are both in the bank itself. I suppose there's a reason not to do that but for so much money I think I'd be a little extra careful as well.

[Tobster3]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

So, since you were in the industry and know things, can the buyer empty the account and / or close it before you get a chance to go deposit that check?

I’m not in the industry or know very much about it. However, when I have gone to the bank to get Cashiers checks from the bank for vehicles I am purchasing, the money has come out of my account at that time when the check is issued. So In my experience, I’d say this is not possible.

[izzyM2]

Another reason to trade a car in and just let a dealer take most of your profit.

[Dasky_spas]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

This is crazy and what happened at the bank makes ZERO SENSE!!! I worked in bank operations for many years. A bank should be able to verify a valid routing number in about two seconds. As well they should never have said the cashier’s check was genuine without verifying the routing number and calling the issuing bank to verify the check. This part of the story makes no sense. If the bank screwed up this badly they should be sued to make him whole.

Agreed!! Only diff btwn cert check and cashier check is that one is made payable to a party. Both place the funds into the physical check, those funds are no longer in your account. You also have to pay a hefty fee to cancel a cert check. The sole purpose of the bank in that respect is playing intermediary and they failed. Since when can a bank charge for the service and then not even provide the service. This is a failure in the banking system as I heard this happen a few times now.

It would seem the only prudent way to then sell and accept funds privately is to only accept a wire transfer. Even cash can be counterfeit bills.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by tracer bullet

I actually thought that was standard, but yeah, I can see it can vary depending on the bank, teller, how busy they are, if they are itching to go to lunch, etc.

I sold a car once long ago, the buyer brought a cashiers check and we went to the bank together with it. We sat off to the side for 5-10 minutes while someone actually called up the other persons bank to make sure the check was real / funds were available. I guess I don't know the details but they did do some work on it. Good reminder to be sure this happens if I ever repeat a sale that way.



So, since you were in the industry and know things, can the buyer empty the account and / or close it before you get a chance to go deposit that check?

For $75k I might actually create an account at the buyers bank for myself, and have it go direct while we are both in the bank itself. I suppose there's a reason not to do that but for so much money I think I'd be a little extra careful as well.

If you just walked up to me as a teller with a $75,000 cashier’s check and wanted to deposit it and you were alone and didn’t indicate you had any questions about it I would, in fact, just take the check and process the deposit and give you your receipt, but I would not do anything special to check on it right then and there. BUT, it would go into my “large items” transaction bin (as opposed to the bin that holds all the nondescript transactions) and a supervisor charged with reviewing the large items would look at it before it went into the system. Even so, if there was nothing to raise a red flag it would probably go on into the system. In this case it sounds like Kies was with the seller and gave the bank some indication he wanted to verify the legitimacy of the check, so it should have received some immediate scrutiny.

Originally Posted by Tobster3

I’m not in the industry or know very much about it. However, when I have gone to the bank to get Cashiers checks from the bank for vehicles I am purchasing, the money has come out of my account at that time when the check is issued. So In my experience, I’d say this is not possible.

You are correct. Banks only issue cashier’s checks once they are paid for in full with guaranteed funds directly from the purchaser. The cashier’s check is an obligation of the bank and is drawn on bank funds from the bank’s cashier’s check account. There’s no chance for the purchaser of the check to somehow close their account to get around paying for the check. The funds are immediately debited from the purchaser’s account. Assuming, of course, the purchaser was paying from their own bank account. It is possible to buy a cashier’s check with cash. And then it is up to the teller to determine that none of that cash is counterfeit. With the amount of genuine currency you handle on a daily basis it is pretty easy to identify counterfeit currency the moment your fingers touch it. Counterfeit currency does not feel like genuine currency. Also, the absolute dead giveaway to counterfeit currency is its lack of imbedded red and blue fibers in the paper. There literally is no other paper that has these imbedded fibers. They cannot be counterfeited. On close examination of counterfeit currency you can see the red and blue “fibers” are merely ink sitting on top of the paper. With genuine U.S. currency you can actually take the point of a straight pin or a safety pin and tease the imbedded red and blue fibers out from within the paper.