[hufc2002]

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Afternoon all

So I have had my F20 118d M Sport since late June but after reading lots of stark reviews re the 116i, I often ask myself have I bought the right engine?

I cover at least 12k miles per year and on the basis that I had a E87 118d SE that averaged 53mpg, I opted for the d as I knew I would get excellent fuel consumption of at least 53 mpg and I am (car has average 56mpg over its first 5000 miles).

The diesel was £1960 more expensive (list) than the 116i but I factored in the fuel cost, mileage and car tax and came to the conclusion that I would be better off with the 118d than the 116i. Now I am not so sure.

Yes it is very economical and a great drive and if I was to keep it for 4 years then I wouldn't complain but what are my options if I wanted to change for a 116i?

Would this be worthwhile or would I lose too much money?

On the basis of the 116i averaging 42mpg, my monthly PCP on the 116i would have to be about £30 less than what I am paying now to be worthwhile financially.

Any views/thoughts would be welcomed?

[BMW-RaceR]

Originally Posted by hufc2002

Any views/thoughts would be welcomed?

Go to a dealership and try one... High probability you will be more happy with your car afterwards.

[hufc2002]

Originally Posted by BMW-RaceR

Go to a dealership and try one... High probability you will be more happy with your car afterwards.

So in short you are saying I would prefer my 118d over the 116i?

[BMW-RaceR]

Originally Posted by hufc2002

So in short you are saying I would prefer my 118d over the 116i?

In "short" Im saying: Make up your own opinion based on your own driving style, economy and preferences. I believe you will not find the differences as big as you might think, and maybe even prefer the diesel for your type of driving and commuting. Especially when taking fuel economy and the fact that you already own the car you do into the equation.

I don't think the odds are that large for that you would be willing to trade down on HP, down on torque, down on fuel economy and the potentially large hassle to change car because you might prefer the character of the petrol engine better.
You could say something like. But the 116I have more hp and torque than claimed.. Most new BMW engines have more power than rated.. Yours probably have too.

Enthusiasts on forums are often more for petrol engines, me included. Its easy to get carried away when others talk about petrol engines, how the engines perform, advantages etc..

I say, make up your own opinion based on your own experience. Often you will find reviews and other peoples opinions to be a little different than yours.
I certainly would not even consider swapping out your car in some way when you're not even sure about the 116I.
I have driven the 116I (short drive) and have no experience with 118D. But im pretty sure that if I had one of them I would not bother changing to the other..
Of course, if you live in an area with extremely low temperatures, or are doing a lot of track time. Or taking lots of very small 5-10 min drives. Petrol is generally preferred.. (but not everyone choice)
Since you did not mention any of those things I assume you are just fine with a more fuel efficient and slight more powerful 118D. Especially since you mentioned fuel efficiency in your first post.
Again, try the 116I for yourself if you are in doubt..
And please share your findings if you do...

Edit: Looks like you have a very nice car btw! Love the color.

[JonF1982]

You'll take a massive hit on the depreciation of the car you already bought. Depending on the size of the deposit you put down, you may find you owe more on the car that it is worth, so you will have to put in more money on top of your car just to settle the finance.

If you put in a decent deposit, then you might as well have bought the 116i in the first place, gone to the bank and made a big cash withdrawl, then set fire to it.

Stick with your current car.

Or if you have GAP insurance, arrange an accident! lol

[vladberca]

If you want to change with a petrol version, buy at least an 118i...
But your car looks great, I wouldn' t change it

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by hufc2002

Afternoon all

So I have had my F20 118d M Sport since late June but after reading lots of stark reviews re the 116i, I often ask myself have I bought the right engine?

I cover at least 12k miles per year and on the basis that I had a E87 118d SE that averaged 53mpg, I opted for the d as I knew I would get excellent fuel consumption of at least 53 mpg and I am (car has average 56mpg over its first 5000 miles).

The diesel was £1960 more expensive (list) than the 116i but I factored in the fuel cost, mileage and car tax and came to the conclusion that I would be better off with the 118d than the 116i. Now I am not so sure.

Yes it is very economical and a great drive and if I was to keep it for 4 years then I wouldn't complain but what are my options if I wanted to change for a 116i?

Would this be worthwhile or would I lose too much money?

On the basis of the 116i averaging 42mpg, my monthly PCP on the 116i would have to be about £30 less than what I am paying now to be worthwhile financially.

Any views/thoughts would be welcomed?

Don't change at all... you can savely avoid wasting time in test driving it also, I'am pretty certain about this! The 116i is a nice car, but has about 35% less torque in the band uptil ~3200rpm where you are probably +90% of the time.

Under relaxed/normal driving conditions, the 118d equals a 125i in "grunt". Of course the 118d revs out much earlier resulting in choked torque delivery higher up and has less rpm range/reach. A 116i has a flatter and longer torque delivery but is not capable to make up for the deficit of torque.

So here it is: the 118d is a far superior engine in low and mid ranges and even when you rev it up, the 116i can barely match just before rev limiter.

And then I'am not even mentioning that the diesel consumes 20% less!

Don't switch for 116i, only go for 125i or M135i (but then the TCO goes up with about 30 to 60%!)... even a 118i will disappoint and will not be worth the switch. I believe you made a splendid choice with the 118d!

[KoenG]

BTW, what I forgot to mention, I drive the 520dF10 (163hp/380Nm) and 530iE39 (231hp/300Nm). So the 530i would be far superior don't you think?

Well it's only mildly superior when you can drive at speeds that put you behind bars immediately and when you keep rpm +4000... All other conditions the 520d is better and feels like a superior engine (I don't compare the cars, since the F10 really obliterates the E39 of course!).

The 530i even frustrates by its lack of grunt under the 3000rpm. Oh yeah, average consumption 520d = 6,1l/100km and 530i=13l/100km. So, again, the 118d is way, way, way superior to the 116i.

[Math]

Originally Posted by KoenG

BTW, what I forgot to mention, I drive the 520dF10 (163hp/380Nm) and 530iE39 (231hp/300Nm). So the 530i would be far superior don't you think?

Well it's only mildly superior when you can drive at speeds that put you behind bars immediately and when you keep rpm +4000... All other conditions the 520d is better and feels like a superior engine (I don't compare the cars, since the F10 really obliterates the E39 of course!).

The 530i even frustrates by its lack of grunt under the 3000rpm. Oh yeah, average consumption 520d = 6,1l/100km and 530i=13l/100km. So, again, the 118d is way, way, way superior to the 116i.

I agree completely with what Koen says. Of course here in Belgium we are all a bit more diesel-fans because it has grown over the years. Diesel being a lot cheaper to drive, especially when you do a lot of KMs, is a big reason for this.

Apart from this, I used to drive an E87 118d which was an ok car(my first BMW so very ok for me at the time). When I was looking for a new car couple of months ago, I also started out with checking out the 116i, mostly for its HP. I took it for a test drive and found it ok, but not noticeably better than my old 118d.
Eventually I ended up buying my new 116D ED which I have had now for +- 6 weeks and I got to say it drives a LOT better than both my old 118d AND the 116i. Theres just no comparison to the amount of torque thats available in the low RPM's with a diesel engine.
In your case, having the 118D, this will be even better than my little 116dED.

So, don't change it. It will end up costing you a lot of money, as others have pointed out. And, more importantly, I am convinced you won't be impressed by the 116i.

I hope this helps you!

[ovekvam]

Originally Posted by KoenG

BTW, what I forgot to mention, I drive the 520dF10 (163hp/380Nm) and 530iE39 (231hp/300Nm). So the 530i would be far superior don't you think?

Well it's only mildly superior when you can drive at speeds that put you behind bars immediately and when you keep rpm +4000... All other conditions the 520d is better and feels like a superior engine (I don't compare the cars, since the F10 really obliterates the E39 of course!).

The 530i even frustrates by its lack of grunt under the 3000rpm. Oh yeah, average consumption 520d = 6,1l/100km and 530i=13l/100km. So, again, the 118d is way, way, way superior to the 116i.

But the M54B30 is not really relevant as comparison to the N13B16, as it has no turbo. The two engines have very different characteristics. The 116i feels almost like a diesel engine with its strong bottom end and lack of power at high RPM.

It is still strange to me that you think the diesel four feels like a superior engine under 4000 RPM. The sound and smoothness (and even smell) of the six is far superior in my opinion. It lacks the torque peak, but you can easily compensate by downshifting once or twice, and have plenty of power availabe. And of course glorious sound as well. Of course that will affect the fuel consumption, but in that case it is not down to which engine feels better, but which engine is cheapest to run. For me it is easy: Petrol feels superior, but is more expensive.

I am pretty sure the M54 is stronger than the diesel at really low RPM as well, like 800-1100.

If you go for some occational weekend fun on a trackday, you will use the RPM range all the way to the redline, and I am 100 percent sure that the M54B30 would put a bigger smile on your face than the diesel four.

The 116i is a rather boring engine that does not come close to the M54B30 in smoothness or sound or power. It does however run quite cheap, and it has practical low end grunt compared to the rather moderate power output. Compared to a 118d, the 116i will feel weak and slow in everyday traffic, but they have similar performance when pushed to the redline.

[iBeech]

my average is 39.9 MPG- and i do alot of motorway miles. so its not that great. fuel up costs around £60- but fantastic performance for a 1.6

Originally Posted by hufc2002

Afternoon all

So I have had my F20 118d M Sport since late June but after reading lots of stark reviews re the 116i, I often ask myself have I bought the right engine?

I cover at least 12k miles per year and on the basis that I had a E87 118d SE that averaged 53mpg, I opted for the d as I knew I would get excellent fuel consumption of at least 53 mpg and I am (car has average 56mpg over its first 5000 miles).

The diesel was £1960 more expensive (list) than the 116i but I factored in the fuel cost, mileage and car tax and came to the conclusion that I would be better off with the 118d than the 116i. Now I am not so sure.

Yes it is very economical and a great drive and if I was to keep it for 4 years then I wouldn't complain but what are my options if I wanted to change for a 116i?

Would this be worthwhile or would I lose too much money?

On the basis of the 116i averaging 42mpg, my monthly PCP on the 116i would have to be about £30 less than what I am paying now to be worthwhile financially.

Any views/thoughts would be welcomed?

[JonF1982]

I get 38.5 mpg from rush hour traffic.

[ovekvam]

I get around 47 mpg here in Norway, but we have rather low speed limits (which is actually good for the fuel consumption). My record for one trip is 57 mpg, but then I really tried to save fuel. My wife gets around 42 mpg at semi urban commuting.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by ovekvam

But the M54B30 is not really relevant as comparison to the N13B16, as it has no turbo. The two engines have very different characteristics. The 116i feels almost like a diesel engine with its strong bottom end and lack of power at high RPM.

It is still strange to me that you think the diesel four feels like a superior engine under 4000 RPM. The sound and smoothness (and even smell) of the six is far superior in my opinion. It lacks the torque peak, but you can easily compensate by downshifting once or twice, and have plenty of power availabe. And of course glorious sound as well. Of course that will affect the fuel consumption, but in that case it is not down to which engine feels better, but which engine is cheapest to run. For me it is easy: Petrol feels superior, but is more expensive.

I am pretty sure the M54 is stronger than the diesel at really low RPM as well, like 800-1100.

If you go for some occational weekend fun on a trackday, you will use the RPM range all the way to the redline, and I am 100 percent sure that the M54B30 would put a bigger smile on your face than the diesel four.

The 116i is a rather boring engine that does not come close to the M54B30 in smoothness or sound or power. It does however run quite cheap, and it has practical low end grunt compared to the rather moderate power output. Compared to a 118d, the 116i will feel weak and slow in everyday traffic, but they have similar performance when pushed to the redline.

What you state is all correct. But the lack of low end torque and the high consumption are not compensated by the refinement and sound of the N54. The 116i will have its grunt lower, but not as much as the 118d, but the sound will not be much better either. So, really no competition: 118d every day.

The rare occasions you get on the circuit or the Nordschleiffe, will not be more thrilling with the 116i than the 118d. Than a 125i or M135i are what you need.

[dchao]

Turbo diesel FTW.

I really love the low-end torque of the diesel. It seems to be the perfect match with the new 8-sp automatic gearbox. IMO, the 116i requires MT to get the most out of the engine.

LOL - Just wish the diesel fuel is cheaper.

[rickk]

Originally Posted by KoenG

The rare occasions you get on the circuit or the Nordschleiffe, will not be more thrilling with the 116i than the 118d. Than a 125i or M135i are what you need.

I disagree.. If it is a *rare* occasion for you to drive on a track, and especially the NS, you don't need much power at all to be thrilled. You'll have lots of other things to worry about. Like where the next bend is going.

But I agree that it doesn't make much sense to swap the 118d for the 116i.

[logiclee]

I went to the dealership to buy a 118d as I like the diesel power delivery and my last few cars have been diesel. My commuting car is a VW 2.0CR Tdi

Or that's what I thought.

I drove a 116i by accident, I wanted to try the sports seats and the dealer took me out and I thought wow what engine is this.

Anyone who thinks the 116i has a week bottom end and mid range hasn't driven one.
After that I had extended test drives in the 118d and 116i.

Yes both cars would be neck and neck in race as the performance figures suggest.

It's the way both cars go about it that is the big difference, the diesel has limited pull below 1500rpm and doesn't really get going until just before 1800rpm and then there's the usual diesel shove but by 3500rpm you can feel it's given it's best and things are getting really vocal. You can surf the torque if you keep the engine in it's 1750rpm-2750rpm sweetspot but it's hardly fun and the engine note is really gruff if you're above half throttle.
VAG's 140/170bhp 2.0TDi Common Rail diesels are more refined and have a more linear power delivery.

The 116i's performance is similar but it's refined, pulls cleanly from 1000rpm, torque delivery not as strong as the diesels at it's peak but is pretty constant throughout the rev range and you don't really feel it tailing off until after 5000rpm. You can rev it past 6000rpm but there's not much point to go beyond 5500rpm. Auto model's change up at 5900rpm in sport mode. Push hard and the soundtrack is just enough towards sporty as not to be bland but don't expect a mini M135i soundtrack. We also felt the petrol felt quicker and more responsive.

Two different ways of delivering similar performance, the petrol car is the most enjoyable when you want it to be and the most refined. The diesel is more efficient but £2k more expensive. The diesel's better resale value makes the PCP deals closer than you think. The diesel is £90 cheaper for road tax but is two groups higher insurance. (UK Costs)

So you have to chose which you like best and how the finances stack up for your mileage.

One things for sure swapping one for the other isn't worth the cost to change.

And to the poster comparing a 118d to a 125i it's torque at the wheels that determine how fast you accelerate so as well as engine output you also need to factor in the gearing. By 2800rpm the 118d's torque is already falling away sharply, the 125i' is still producing maximum torque at 4800rpm and still has 80% torque at 6000rpm This allows the 125i to take advantage of the gearing as revving allows it to stay in a lower gear much longer and thus multiplying the torque at the wheels. Even in gear times are far quicker in the 125i as the petrol has 20% lower overall gearing and thus 20% more torque at the wheels in any given gear.

Cheers
Lee

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by logiclee

And to the poster comparing a 118d to a 125i it's torque at the wheels that determine how fast you accelerate so as well as engine output you also need to factor in the gearing. By 2800rpm the 118d's torque is already falling away sharply, the 125i' is still producing maximum torque at 4800rpm and still has 80% torque at 6000rpm This allows the 125i to take advantage of the gearing as revving allows it to stay in a lower gear much longer and thus multiplying the torque at the wheels. Even in gear times are far quicker in the 125i as the petrol has 20% lower overall gearing and thus 20% more torque at the wheels in any given gear.

Cheers
Lee

I agree, when you drive all the way up, the 125i is of course no match. When you drive cool and relaxed and keep the d in it's torque band, there is no sensible difference at all.

I can understand the torque comes in less progressive, but that doesn't really bother me. The serious extra frugality is more than compensating this.

Of course, when you are ready to pay much more to have this extra fun high up once in a while, you probably should! I'd guess that the running costs for a 118d and a 125i here in Belgium with about 20,000mls/yr would be a factor 1,8 apart. This is without the tickets and fines you'll most probably get with the latter.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by rickk

I disagree.. If it is a *rare* occasion for you to drive on a track, and especially the NS, you don't need much power at all to be thrilled. You'll have lots of other things to worry about. Like where the next bend is going.

But I agree that it doesn't make much sense to swap the 118d for the 116i.

The few times I ran on Zolder, Francochamps and NS I was seriously underwhelmed with the acceleration power after apex in fast turns of every car with less than 300hp I drove.

I remember that I was convinced that I blew the turbo on my Volvo S40 T4 back in 1999 on the NS, it felt so immensly slow and understeer! I was so disappointed that I sold it a few months later.

[AusF20/F48]

I also cannot see that the 116i would give any real advantage over the 118d and the cost diference when the depeciation is considered would be a bitter pill to swallow.

Also consider, that all the new 1er engines are direct injection for both diesel and petrol so they appear to have similar carateristics now. The 116i you drove may have had the Sport auto in it, so that could also vary the results. The Sport auto when in 'Sport' selects 1st gear to launch and allows for later changes, giving the appearance of better performance. I would keep your 118d and have it chip tuned- happy days ahead-

[orcomma]

I have the 116d (non ED) and had a 116i as a courtesy car recently and was surprised when I first got in the 116i how pokey it was. Then when I got my car back, I was surprised at how pokey mine was.

I'm convinced it's all in the mind!

Plus I sometimes drive from my home in Manchester (UK) to see my parents in Torquay (UK) - just over 270 miles all motorway, and when I arrived with 67.4 mpg on my computer (admittedly back in the summer) you cant beat that feeling of smugness over our petrol-burning brothers

My opinion - petrol is only for the rich and famous.

[JonF1982]

Originally Posted by orcomma

My opinion - petrol is only for the rich and famous.

Depends how many miles you do. New efficent petrol engines will work out more cost effective if you're doing less than 10,000 miles a year as you never make back the extra cost in buying the diesel in the first place.

At 10,000 to 12,000 a year there is very little in it either way. Over 12,000 you wan't a diesel.

Obvioulsy only by properly breaking down the figures with a calculator and knowing the MPGs and having a fixed price for fuel (which we wont ever have) could you know exactly, but that's a rough rule of thumb i go by.

There's also the residual value to think about throwing another spanner in the works.