Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent
6 one way, half dozen the other. If it has no manual transmission option, then it isn't "sheer driving pleasure" to me, nor many other enthusiasts.
|
If there were enough enthusiasts like you, car companies would still have manuals as an option everywhere. But the reality is no one is buying manuals, even in the Corvette GM said the manual take rate is down to 20%. The top end Mustang is a dual clutch, the Ford GT is a dual clutch, the 911 is (primarily) a dual clutch and now the Corvette is a dual clutch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent
I understand that if the market isn't there to support the sales, then it makes sense from a P&L standpoint to ditch the manual. If done, however, they are really just becoming another Lexus.
|
And it's not just the take rate on manuals, it's the numbers. Today's automatics offer better fuel economy than manuals.
They offer better performance across the board, shifting time is better in a good conventional automatic than a manual and a dual clutch crushes what a driver can do for shift times. In today's performance cars people mostly start looking at cars for the numbers and when you get to the point that a car is 0-60 in 3 seconds the difference between a manual and automatic is going to be at least 0.5 and probably the same in the quarter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent
BMW should just admit that they no longer build sports cars or sports sedans in any but the most rare special models - say they are now a "luxury brand" and move on.
|
By what definition do you not call an M5 a "sports car"? Is a C8 Corvette not a sports car? Ford GT? 911? How about a Ferrari 812 Superfast? That's a dual clutch too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Run Silent
Maybe the should start pitching MINI as the "drivers car"? My MINI is far more engaging and fun to drive than any BMW I've owned, and I can still get it with a manual. It doesn't weigh two tons, either.
|
BMW sells as many (or more) 5 series than they do Minis at a much higher cost and weighing more than 2 tons. They'd be fools to stop selling that to make the 5 series what a few enthusiasts want it to be.
And the reality is BMW is making vehicles people want to buy, hence the big push for SUV/SAVs This isn't going to change, manuals are going away, cars certainly look to be going away, or at least we're going to see a lot less models than we used to, ICE engines are going away (though that will take a lot of years yet).
BMW is no more perfect than any car company out there, and they've made some blunders, but marginalizing manuals and track ready cars for more consumer friendly sports sedans isn't one of them, that choice was made long ago (and MB and Audi have done the same).