[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

BMW should just admit that they no longer build sports cars or sports sedans in any but the most rare special models -

The Z4 is still a sports car (more now than in the previous generation according to a number of reviews), and even the i8 probably squeaks in. Of course, neither of those two are available with BMW's high performance engines from the M Division, so they definitely miss out on some excitement that is sitting there in the corporate tool shed, ripe for the taking. And that fact clearly says something about where BMW's priorities lie.

But sport sedans? If the 3 Series isn't a sport sedan, then there are almost no sport sedans left. I say that because I don't see how we can arbitrarily eliminate the 3 Series without also nixing every other vehicle in its class. And if we do that, we have to eliminate plenty of other sedans out there that might otherwise be called sport sedans because they are even less sporty than the class we just eliminated. What's left to be called a sport sedan then? Just the M3, C63, RS5 Sportback, and Giulia Q? Maybe throw in the RS3 and CLA45? If that's it then we are really saying that the industry as a whole has abandoned the sport sedan. And I suppose that is one way to look at it, but then that would hardly be a BMW-specific problem, right?

say they are now a "luxury brand" and move on.

You say that almost as if you believe that BMW is uniquely coy about how they market themselves and their products while everyone else just comes right out and tells the consumer like it is. To me, BMW's marketing does not register as any more disingenuous than their competitors'. Now, I would tend to declare foreign luxury automakers to be some of the more, shall we say, liberal in their use of hyperbole, superlatives, and outright ego stroking in order to sell product. But that's not really a new thing, and certainly, as I say, not limited to BMW.

Originally Posted by nlaak

By what definition do you not call an M5 a "sports car"? Is a C8 Corvette not a sports car? Ford GT? 911? How about a Ferrari 812 Superfast? That's a dual clutch too.

The commonly accepted definition of sports car typically includes a vehicle that is either based on a purpose-built platform/chassis, or is at least crafted in an expressly selected form factor, that gives up passenger/cargo space in favor of higher performance by way of taking advantage of the smaller utility space for more favorable packaging of the powertrain and also for a lighter weight vehicle. Hallmark signs of a sports car are two doors, and either two seats or 2+2 seating.

Hopefully we can accept that or something roughly close and not have that debate again (its been had many times before). At any rate, by that definition, no an M5 isn't a sports car, but the others you mention are.