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      05-08-2013, 04:05 AM   #1
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Video: AC Schnitzer M135i Tuned to 360 HP

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      05-08-2013, 04:18 AM   #2
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It surprises me that the tuning companies are not adding a limited slip differential to a package like that.
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      05-08-2013, 05:40 AM   #3
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Interesting that 360 HP seems to be a sweet spot for the big tuning houses. Hartge's unit pushes my F21 to this, but then it had 340 HP stock beforehand.

Would be nice to compare torque charts with someone who takes the AC unit. And then again with someone who choses the official M Performance chip upgrade when it comes out.

Not surprised there's no mention of a diff mod considering it would mean a drivetrain swap or surgery. But I am surprised AC hasn't switched to vented discs on their package. I like the look of the M disc kit...
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      05-08-2013, 09:32 AM   #4
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If the car is 320hp, but on the dyno it's giving around 340hp, a tune ie hartge when they give figures of 360 hp is it based on the 320 where we get 40 extra hp or is it based on 340 where we only get an extra 20? I feel that if you just remapped a 340 hp car it should easily get to 390 hp right?
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      05-08-2013, 09:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffoul232 View Post
If the car is 320hp, but on the dyno it's giving around 340hp, a tune ie hartge when they give figures of 360 hp is it based on the 320 where we get 40 extra hp or is it based on 340 where we only get an extra 20? I feel that if you just remapped a 340 hp car it should easily get to 390 hp right?
Clearly it's not that simple and as I've discovered not every car seems to respond to the same mod in the same way.

I suppose there's only so much tweaking to the injectors and turbo air you can get away with without falling foul of whatever safety margins BMW have built in to the their own ECU software.

Maybe what Hartge and AC and others have found and promise with their piggy-back units is that their boxes can push the car up to the top end of the tolerance levels in a reliable way without invalidating the warranty? If so then this seems to be around the 360-mark.

In my case 20 HP does sound pitiful, but the torque curve remap has been the real gain for me, because I'm able to use more of the power more of the time in more of the gears.

When BMW bring out their own M chip upgrade it will be insteresting to see if the BMW ECU raises its own tolerance limits a bit further still.
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      05-08-2013, 10:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
It surprises me that the tuning companies are not adding a limited slip differential to a package like that.
I wonder about the same. Is there some technical difficulty putting in a LSD for M135i. I would expect big tuners definitely have thought about it. After all, Quafe did it....

Just wondering....
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      05-08-2013, 02:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westphone View Post
I wonder about the same. Is there some technical difficulty putting in a LSD for M135i. I would expect big tuners definitely have thought about it. After all, Quafe did it....

Just wondering....
I think it is plug and play. BMW will not do it, as it would hurt the sales figures for the M3. But what is the excuse from the tuners?
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      05-08-2013, 03:06 PM   #8
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That's exceeding the Auto's torque rating by 70NM.

Wonder if that's the reason why AC's demo is a manual?

Cheers
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      05-08-2013, 05:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclee
That's exceeding the Auto's torque rating by 70NM.

Wonder if that's the reason why AC's demo is a manual?

Cheers
Lee
With the Hartge unit I have 550 Nm and the ZF box handles it well enough so far.

Admittedly I now have occasional wheelspin at full throttle in 4th on a dry road...
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      05-08-2013, 07:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I think it is plug and play. BMW will not do it, as it would hurt the sales figures for the M3. But what is the excuse from the tuners?
My friend my sentiments exactly
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      05-08-2013, 07:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madgambler View Post
With the Hartge unit I have 550 Nm and the ZF box handles it well enough so far.

Admittedly I now have occasional wheelspin at full throttle in 4th on a dry road...
Quick question does that mean frequent wheel spin @ full throttle in 3rd?

and be very careful with liberal application of the throttle on mountain roads?
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      05-08-2013, 08:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logiclee View Post
That's exceeding the Auto's torque rating by 70NM.
That's assuming the auto box in the M135i is a plain vanilla ZF A8HP45, which we don't know for sure.

While mindful of the torque issue, we need to take care about stating this as a fact, and creating, potentially, another "internet" myth.

The actual gearbox part number is GA8HP45Z. Now, one of the design features of the ZF A8HP 'box is modularity, meaning each model allows for a variety of configurations and applications. Has BMW specified a custom version? Don't know, but given Chrysler has a couple, it's quite probable.

In any case, it seems absurd to assume the box in the M135i just meets the engine's output, with no headroom!

Does anyone else have any information on this issue?
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      05-09-2013, 01:22 AM   #13
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Interesting that 360 HP seems to be a sweet spot for the big tuning houses
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      05-09-2013, 03:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westphone View Post
Quick question does that mean frequent wheel spin @ full throttle in 3rd?

and be very careful with liberal application of the throttle on mountain roads?
Indeed it does, but only if I really bury the throttle in third at around 5000 revs.

If I keep the throttle about 80% open rather than flat out there's no real dramas in any gear, just epic acceleration. The Hartge unit itself only wakes up and boosts you if you squeeze the throttle more than about 60% and only then if it thinks the car can handle it.

However the overall sensation is that the car is lifting rather than digging in with wheel-to-ground contact feeling suspiciously light at all corners - reminds me a bit of the drifting sensation of a 4WD rally car on gravel, a wee bit scary.

Nothing a bit of extra aero couldn't help I suppose.

Thankfully the Michelin Pilot Super Sports they fit on these cars here in the UK are awesome with excellent grip compared to the Pirelli P Zeros I had on my Porsches and far, far superior to the awful run flats I had on my 130i M.
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      05-09-2013, 05:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madgambler View Post

Thankfully the Michelin Pilot Super Sports they fit on these cars here in the UK are awesome with excellent grip compared to the Pirelli P Zeros I had on my Porsches and far, far superior to the awful run flats I had on my 130i M.
Simply a friendly reminder, I had a few close calls. I am sure you know this already, but the Michelin PSS is strange when it comes to damp mountain roads. The traction seems to suffer a more than expected drop, and the car tends to snap away more easily. Then again, we have leaves and the roads have undulations. I hope mountain roads are better where you are .
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      05-09-2013, 06:06 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westphone View Post
Simply a friendly reminder, I had a few close calls. I am sure you know this already, but the Michelin PSS is strange when it comes to damp mountain roads. The traction seems to suffer a more than expected drop, and the car tends to snap away more easily. Then again, we have leaves and the roads have undulations. I hope mountain roads are better where you are .
Thanks for the tip, I was unaware of that trait of the PSS although it does feel like the kind of compound that needs to warm up and melt a bit to achieve a certain amount of tackiness.

If I drove on roads at altitudes that deserved the term 'mountain' or lived in a country that experienced proper winters I would most certainly switch to winter tyres rather than rely on these boots to keep me on the black stuff.

As it is the highest point I drive past is barely 900ft above sea level and the road is well below that. Although I do remember power-sliding up the same road in my 130i M a few winters back seeing all the Z3's littering the verge when we did have a bit of a snowy period. That was a blast as I recall...even had to resort to a bit of steering waggle and seat bouncing to coax it over the top XD

Mind you I will be taking it on a drive to the Scottish Higlands later in the month so I'll be extra careful.
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      05-09-2013, 06:55 AM   #17
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      05-09-2013, 07:05 AM   #18
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Why would Hartge add a LSD to the M135i tuning package ? They don't manufacture LSDs, their profit margins would be too low on just reselling LSDs from other manufacturer, and German people just to to Drexler or Quaife and install a high quality LSD.
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      05-09-2013, 07:38 AM   #19
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Why would Hartge add a LSD to the M135i tuning package ? They don't manufacture LSDs, their profit margins would be too low on just reselling LSDs from other manufacturer, and German people just to to Drexler or Quaife and install a high quality LSD.
It is easier for the end customer to have less suppliers to relate to, and the tuners should be able to get better discounts on LSDs than we can. The price of the LSD unit itself is one thing, but there is also some work involved in installing it. Most new car buyers are unable to do these things themselves, but Hartge and Schnitzer could do it.
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      05-09-2013, 09:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westphone View Post
I wonder about the same. Is there some technical difficulty putting in a LSD for M135i. I would expect big tuners definitely have thought about it. After all, Quafe did it....

Just wondering....
I can't imagine it's a technical limitation, just that it's expensive. I don't know if this is true for the M135i, but at some point (can't remember the year), BMW started welding the ring gear in the 135i diff, so you can't just swap out the components; you have to replace the entire diff and ring gear. It ends up costing close to $2,500 for a LSD, and that's just for the part.
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      05-09-2013, 09:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
I can't imagine it's a technical limitation, just that it's expensive. I don't know if this is true for the M135i, but at some point (can't remember the year), BMW started welding the ring gear in the 135i diff, so you can't just swap out the components; you have to replace the entire diff and ring gear. It ends up costing close to $2,500 for a LSD, and that's just for the part.
Yep. I've had it explained to me as 'machining off the end and welding the diff in place and putting it back together again'. The outfit who would do this for me say its a 5-day operation. But once it's done it's undetectable without opening it up. And those numbers are pretty close although over here it would be the same figure in .
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      05-09-2013, 09:45 AM   #22
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How is this company still in business? I mean really, these addons make a beautiful car look ugly. The tuning I understand because you cant see it, but wow to each their own I suppose.
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