BMW 1-Series Forum (F20) 135i - 1Addicts.com > Second Generation 1 Series Forum > 2012 BMW 1-Series Sporthatch (F20) Discussion > Video: Chris Harris Reviews BMW M135i vs Audi RS3 on Road, Track and Dragstrip
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      10-18-2012, 03:01 AM   #45
ovekvam
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I have tried some drifting on a wet gokart track with the F20 116i, and found it very difficult. It is however quite easy on ice/snow.

I think the braking torque involved is a lot smaller in winter conditions, and the electronic differential brake can handle that. In summer conditions it is not quite up to the task. Or maybe it brakes so much that my engine can't keep the power up?

Anyway, I have noticed that my car wants the rear brake pads replaced in 17000 km, and the front ones in 90000 km. A visual inspection does however indicate that the front pads are more worn. My front wheels have been totally covered in brake dust a couple of times after track driving.
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      10-18-2012, 03:44 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I have tried some drifting on a wet gokart track with the F20 116i, and found it very difficult. It is however quite easy on ice/snow.

I think the braking torque involved is a lot smaller in winter conditions, and the electronic differential brake can handle that. In summer conditions it is not quite up to the task. Or maybe it brakes so much that my engine can't keep the power up?

Anyway, I have noticed that my car wants the rear brake pads replaced in 17000 km, and the front ones in 90000 km. A visual inspection does however indicate that the front pads are more worn. My front wheels have been totally covered in brake dust a couple of times after track driving.
I got the same experience, but the M135i must have another rear diff no? Although same concept.
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      10-18-2012, 03:47 AM   #47
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nice rolex Chris!
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      10-18-2012, 04:00 AM   #48
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The M135i probably has a larger differential, but it is still open. The car is using the ABS brakes to hold back the wheel that spins fastest. A real limited slip differential would have the braking feature built in.
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      10-18-2012, 04:04 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaehshim View Post
i just can't say it any other way
the bmw is fxxxing ugly....seriously...

I have just got back from the USA.

Honestly, have you looked at some of the car designs being built and offered in the USA. Most of them are fxxxing ugly, Camero, Mustang OK

The F20, maybe not the prettiest, but definitely not ugly.
Video of a white one does not do its looks any justice
If the F20/F21 came to the USA, you saw it in the flesh, and then drove it, you would say 'It is fantastic'
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      10-18-2012, 04:40 AM   #50
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That Engine Noise!!!
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      10-18-2012, 05:19 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusF20 View Post
I have just got back from the USA.

Honestly, have you looked at some of the car designs being built and offered in the USA. Most of them are fxxxing ugly, Camero, Mustang OK

The F20, maybe not the prettiest, but definitely not ugly.
Video of a white one does not do its looks any justice
If the F20/F21 came to the USA, you saw it in the flesh, and then drove it, you would say 'It is fantastic'
It looks terrible, ive seen it in person. I hate it. I dont know why this kind of "design" is put into production.
Old Audi looks a lot better then this.
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      10-18-2012, 06:24 AM   #52
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It's one of those designs that grows on you. I thought the 5GT was hideous when it was released but now I quite like it. Same with the X1. I wouldn't call the F20 beautiful but it just looks so awesome imo, and now it has an exhaust to go with it
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      10-18-2012, 06:32 AM   #53
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great review
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      10-18-2012, 06:38 AM   #54
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Come on, the Audi is just a GOLF! Not a true competitor of such an awesome BWW chassis.... If americans want ugly cars just look at the Malibu, Camaro, the Chryslers of today, etc. The One is actually good looking in the flesh, but everything is about personal likes. To me it could be even "uglier" and still have it, it is about the driving!
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      10-18-2012, 06:39 AM   #55
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Design taste is down to personal preferences. Discussing if the F20 looks good or not is almost like discussing if pineapple tastes good or not. But then again design taste is also affected by local culture. If you are American og Chinese, you are less likely to prefer the looks of a hatchback over a sedan.

The hypothesis that the F20 is ugly, is actually wrong. It is however correct that some people find it ugly.
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      10-18-2012, 07:01 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haitham87
That Engine Noise!!!
That may have been the best inline 6 engine noise I've ever heard. Certainly at or near the top of the list.
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      10-18-2012, 07:56 AM   #57
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great video- bmw usa are missing out!
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      10-18-2012, 08:01 AM   #58
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Awesome review.
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      10-18-2012, 08:19 AM   #59
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I recently counted 25 aftermarket exhaust solutions for the 1M, and this without mid pipe or down pipe alternatives in the count. I very much doubt that there will be this many offers for this M135i, it sounds really very good. Can't be explained just with the catless midpipes of the N55 setting, it is better than just that.

I think the bottomline of this new car is being a real performance bargain at the positive side while the negative is controversial looks to say the least. I am still not feeling allright with this face despite the fact that I see everyday one or two around here, not the M135i though but still..nothing helps.

Straight line speed with this 8 speed auto version is on par with a stock 1M, till around 60 mph, after that 1M goes faster according to every detailed test I read till now. I remember that 1M catches and pulls away from the RS3 sometime around 80-90 mph. 1M has more torque than both RS3 and M135i (overboost, average dynos are 550+ nm) and more power as well (stocks are more like 350-360 ps) but it is also considerably heavier than this M135i and 6 speed manual can't fight with the efficiency of the 8 speed auto at launch, that is for sure. And the xdrive will definitely make it faster than the 1M at a drag race, again probably till a certain speed, maybe higher than 60 mph.

I can add factory fitted Michelin PSS over 1M's factory fitted PS2s as a clear advantage as well, I have the PSS on my 1M and I know how much better they are, especially in terms of traction.

Non-performance related points on the side of M135i vs. 1M should be various settings which should help for a more comfortable ride, better quality plastics, more modern layout (interior), more options to choose from and (much) better mileage.

If 1M would be still in production this would only be second best for enthusiast drivers, but still a proud one for being 25% cheaper. Now, 1M done and this new car is a serious threat for every other small performance car I can imagine including (only slightly) cheaper hot hatches like Astra OPC, Golf/Scirocco R, Focus ST, Megane Trophy, plus usual Impreza and Lancer duo.

It is not perfect but hard to resist. Given the price and target market BMW got this one very right imo.
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      10-18-2012, 08:53 AM   #60
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The question is to me as a buyer -
135 in E82 body or brand new M135 in F21 body ?
The things that i value are
- handling
- responsiveness
- power delivery
- emotions from driving
Thats it.
Chris made me think about my choise again.
whats on M135 side ?
- a tinny boosted engine
- mustBe///M///aLikeChassis (but i really doubt its something around it)
....pretty much it.
What an old 135 in E82 body can offer ?
- hydraulic steering system ,that provides extra road feel and such. As i had a compare with my current 328m-pack adaptive steering (the one m135 supplied with i belive) old hydraulic system feels like a kart driving it.
- second point comes out of first one. The way it reacts to the steering wheel. Just like a kart. Instant. Lighting fast. Confident.
- Really hard,harsh suspension. No fancy driving modes. Just you and a car.
Harder that M135 i belive.
- 7 speed double Clutch transmission with launch control. That said. Perfect transmission.
- Another point is that mechanical feel E82 has - its just you, hard steering wheel and DCT transmission that feels as much mechanical as an automatic ever could be. M135 felt like a toy the time i sat in. its exhaust note felt not a natural but a tuned one. Its steering feel. I only had a chance to start it and experience it in parking lot, but its steering is really nothing alive compare to E82 hydraulic one.
Overall impression was like its all synthetic, unalive, plastic dummie car. Must be new-gen. m-tuned car , but old one brings more sport.
Any ideas guys ? )
So far, i see nothing M135 can offer over older 135 E82.
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      10-18-2012, 09:11 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymkhana View Post
So far, i see nothing M135 can offer over older 135 E82.
I think the seats and the brakes are better. The suspension is also better balanced (less oversteer and understeer), which could be seen as both an advantage or disadvantage, depending on your driving style.

The steering column is directly connected to the rack both with hydraulic or electric assist. The F20 steering is even quicker than the E82 steering, and no less precise. The steering feel is different, but it is pretty much just a matter of getting used to.

The lights are very good. I have the adaptive Xenons, and they are awesome on dark and twisty roads.

The track is wider, which should give you more grip in corners.
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      10-18-2012, 09:14 AM   #62
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On paper, electro-mecanic steering loses to hydraulic in its relative lack of feel (new 911 and Boxster vs. old generation versions come to mind) but Chris Harris seems to like it in M135i for its accuracy. Difficult to judge without a back to back comparison though.

What M135i brings is first of all a new body, it is a more practical hatch and at least in Europe it is cheaper than 135i coupe. But if all you care for is what you have listed below, you may have a valid point. Still, keep in mind that a F20 M135i will also likely retain its value better than a E82 135i. If that also doesn't matter than at least make some real test drives on the road with both cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gymkhana View Post
The question is to me as a buyer -
135 in E82 body or brand new M135 in F21 body ?
The things that i value are
- handling
- responsiveness
- power delivery
- emotions from driving
Thats it.
Chris made me think about my choise again.
....
Any ideas guys ? )
So far, i see nothing M135 can offer over older 135 E82.
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      10-18-2012, 09:33 AM   #63
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Harris's reviews are always great to watch.
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      10-18-2012, 09:46 AM   #64
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I need a friend with a runway
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      10-18-2012, 09:56 AM   #65
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Great Review as usual by Chris..

There is a special place in Hell for whoever designed and approved those BMW headlights.
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      10-18-2012, 10:03 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozinaldo View Post
On paper, electro-mecanic steering loses to hydraulic in its relative lack of feel (new 911 and Boxster vs. old generation versions come to mind) but Chris Harris seems to like it in M135i for its accuracy. Difficult to judge without a back to back comparison though.
Why is the electric steering inferior on paper when it comes to feel?

The car manufacturers have had several decades working on the hydraulic assist, while the electric setup is a bit new to them. It will just take a while before they dial it in perfectly. I see no reason why it should not be at least as good as the hydraulic solution.

Among FWD cars, the Mini gets quite a lot of positive feedback about the steering. It is electric.

Among new sports cars, the Subrau BRZ / Toyota GT86 is praised for the telepathic steering. It is also electric.

PS: I forgot one imporant feature the F20 has, that the E82 is missing. When the DSC is switched off, the E82 has no limited slip differential. The F20 uses the brakes to simulate one.
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