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      08-18-2012, 04:18 PM   #23
KoenG
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Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
I guess all the F20/F21 models with smaller and lighter engines should have less inertia and better basic handling than the M135i. But I guess the journalists are dazzled by the engine performance. And when they test the M-Sport version, they run with too wide run flat tires in the rear.
Although yaw inertia is important, there is more than the horizontal spread around the center of gravity to determine the final vehicle dynamic behaviour.

BMW told that the M135i has specific parts and that you cannot transform any other 1 into an M135i, as I'am not mistaken, they referred to the suspension with specific bushings and stuff.

I'am also baffled that the M135i gets so raving first reviews while a UK magazine recently wrote about the 125d with M kit that it was not an amuzing car on twisty roads and its' strenghts are in a straight line!

Why should the difference between the M135i and the others be so big?
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      08-18-2012, 04:22 PM   #24
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Ir was this section in the Autocar first test that grabbed my attention (M Sport upgrade installed):

"And despite the straight-line performance, it’s just not that fun to drive. The sense of driver involvement from the chassis that you’d expect from larger 3-series is absent in the 1. Push it hard and all you’ll be rewarded with is understeer."

This is verry worrying, even when only partially true!
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      08-18-2012, 04:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoenG View Post
Although yaw inertia is important, there is more than the horizontal spread around the center of gravity to determine the final vehicle dynamic behaviour.

BMW told that the M135i has specific parts and that you cannot transform any other 1 into an M135i, as I'am not mistaken, they referred to the suspension with specific bushings and stuff.

I'am also baffled that the M135i gets so raving first reviews while a UK magazine recently wrote about the 125d with M kit that it was not an amuzing car on twisty roads and its' strenghts are in a straight line!

Why should the difference between the M135i and the others be so big?
Exactly, I'm not entirely convinced that the M135i has that many alterations to the chassis over a specced up 125d. Sure, it's got M adaptive suspension and variable sports steering and M performance brakes, but you can get all that on the lower F20s. I hardly think a couple of geometry tweaks would transform the F20 beyond all recognition.
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      08-19-2012, 12:10 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by KoenG View Post

The 335i has more weight on the front than the 328i and seen the 335i didn't get a power update, the difference is not that big. In normal driving conditions, the thing you'll feel is the extra 50Nm, which is only 14% more 335i vs 328i, while indeed, the weight is 5% higher.
KoenG,

I guess I am in position to make a fair comment and comparison between 328 & 335.

I was one of the 20 lucky bastards got invited to a 3 series launch event for F30 in Canberra.

I have test ride (race) the following, 325, 328, 335, new M5 & 650 for a day.

In the real world condition, 328 is a perfectly good sport sedan. But once you get a hand on the 335 on the same road. The story changed!!!

335 give me a very close to M-experience. The way it drive, the way it handling abuse, the way it attack corners, all very very different.

328 accelerate like a 125. But 125 is more fun to drive based on the sharper handling.

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      08-19-2012, 03:10 AM   #27
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Well according to the M division, the M135i has around 30% of its parts that are different to a regular 1 series (as opposed to 70% for a proper M car). So if the 125i is great to drive, I'm hoping that there is a noticeable step up to the 135i.

http://www.m-power.com/_open/s/varlink1.jsp?lang=en.

"So if I were to order a BMW 125i with adaptive M running gear or sports steering, for example, there would be a difference from the set-up of these components as compared to the BMW M135i?

Correct. It is not possible to give a BMW 125i the same characteristics and performance of the BMW M135i by adding special equipment options. Not only the transverse and longitudinal dynamics are different - the entire character of the BMW M135i is distinct."
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      08-19-2012, 03:42 AM   #28
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In terms of performance I'm sure that M135i is better than 335i due to its special treatment by M Division. Plus it doesn't have run-flats, but UHP tyres which make an important difference related to driving dynamics.
The style of F30 without M Sport is not so impressive.
The options for M135i are cheaper than other "normal" models (F20 & F30) because it is the top model.
My opinion is that M135i is the right choice if you look for great performances, exclusivity, but also practicality!
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      08-19-2012, 06:07 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by actuarius View Post
Well according to the M division, the M135i has around 30% of its parts that are different to a regular 1 series (as opposed to 70% for a proper M car). So if the 125i is great to drive, I'm hoping that there is a noticeable step up to the 135i.

http://www.m-power.com/_open/s/varlink1.jsp?lang=en.

"So if I were to order a BMW 125i with adaptive M running gear or sports steering, for example, there would be a difference from the set-up of these components as compared to the BMW M135i?

Correct. It is not possible to give a BMW 125i the same characteristics and performance of the BMW M135i by adding special equipment options. Not only the transverse and longitudinal dynamics are different - the entire character of the BMW M135i is distinct."
I just wonder how much of that 30% parts change are things like the M sport brakes, adaptive dampers and variable sport steering, which you can order on standard F20s. Do they count the engine as part of that parts change? I would genuinely like to know these things.
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      08-19-2012, 06:50 AM   #30
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M135i is the best reviewed car BMW makes (usa mags even though we are not getting it), since the 1M and the M3.
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      08-19-2012, 07:11 AM   #31
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My 5 cents:

I drove a 328i and was a bit dissapointed by it. It's very fast way to loose your license but it's not worth my money over a 320i, which I found just as much fun to drive. I took a quick drive in a 118i sportline immediately afterwards and actually found the 118i a lot more fun to drive.

This is what turned me to the F20 (at first I was very much put off by the styling, but with M sport I can live with it... )

A week later I went for another long test drive with a 118i and a 320i back-to-back, both on standard suspension, and found them really similar handling-wise, with the 118i having the edge, feeling slightly more playful and involving.

The F30's interior feels a lot more spacious compared to the F20. The F20 to me feels a bit like a cockpit of a fighter plane and strangely also a bit like a 911 (sitting rather close to a small windscreen) - both good things to me, but I can imagine it being a problem for some.

However, I don't see much, if any, difference between them regarding design, seats, switches and materials used in the interior.

As for reviews.. first note that the autocar review of the 125i is a lot more favorable than their review of the 125d!
I've probably read all reviews on both the F20 and the F30. The F30 receives rave reviews all around but I've seen the most questionable and contradictory conclusions on the F20. I think it has a lot to do with preconceptions.. The F30 looks great and comes from a long line of great cars, so it cannot fail to be a good car. The F20 looks funny and it's predecessor had a number of flaws.. it's just easier to hate it.

In the end I settled for a 125i M sport. Figured I couldn't go wrong with a car very similar to the F30 320, only faster, lighter, smaller and cheaper.

I think the M135i will be LOTS more fun than the 328i, if only for the engine, and would choose it over a 328i in a heartbeat.

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Last edited by rickk; 08-19-2012 at 08:09 AM. Reason: corrected some speling and style errors
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      08-19-2012, 08:00 AM   #32
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Rick, I think you've provided the most sensible and complete summary so far.
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      08-20-2012, 06:46 AM   #33
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f30 328i = a car for anybody and everybody
f20 m135i = a car for certain people in a niche audience

if there is something that has attracted you to the m135i, then it is unlikely that you will be happy in a 328i. There is no comparison here performance wise.
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      08-20-2012, 01:38 PM   #34
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I don't give a shit what anyone says a beamer is a beamer! :0)

I do not understand why people are comparing either. I went online and spec'd a 135i and the 328i as similar as possible and the 328i is around 2-3k more expensive.

Like someone said it depends on what is your main need. If you need space get the 328i if you need speed/smile while driving/stick to your seat action go with the 1 series.

IMO...I am actually debating this myself. If it wans't for having a wife and 1 kid and another on the way I would get the 135i HANDS FREAKING DOWN!!! tune that shit with jb and it is over ;p
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      08-20-2012, 02:01 PM   #35
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I am mildly surprised that this debate has got this far without much discussion of the fact that the 328i has a turbocharged four and the M135i has a naturally aspirated straight six. If you care about character in an engine, surely the latter is more instantly appealing.

There are any number of smallish saloons with turbocharged 4 cylinder engines. The field of smallish hatchbacks with powerful 6 cylinder engines is limited to just the M135i, especially when you factor in that you can, mercifully, still get it with a manual gearbox.

The M135i is just much more of an enthusiast's machine. The 328i sounds like it's a slick bit of kit that'll be a painless pleasure to own but is unlikely to make you want to go and find some wiggly roads just for the sheer hell of it. Whereas, the 1M (and I'm hoping the M135i) are altogether naughtier and a bit more raw.

T'was ever thus. I remember back-to-backing the E92 335i coupe and the 135i coupe a few years back and the latter felt much more fun and engaging to drive. The bigger car was almost certainly the better, smoother car but it just felt a bit too grown up for its own good.
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      08-20-2012, 02:11 PM   #36
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^ BMW M135i: Straight six-cylinder petrol engine with M Performance
TwinPower Turbo technology comprising Twin Scroll turbocharger, direct
fuel injection system High Precision Injection, variable valve control
VALVETRONIC and Double VANOS.
It's not a NA!
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      08-21-2012, 06:03 AM   #37
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Yes, sorry, was just having a dumb moment - blame it on the end of the day and the fact that both my current BMWs are NA (straight six and V10).

Anyway, I've ordered an M135i 5dr to replace the M5. Better be good then!
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      08-22-2012, 07:52 AM   #38
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I would like to remind all that this is the F20 Forum. If you like F30 blog it's forum
At the end of the day it does not matter which car you like the specs on or what the motoring mags tell you is the best, it is the one you test and then drive. love it, keep it or hate it and trade it.
I liked my M5's but the depreciation on it was a killer and made me choose a 125i M sport this time around. Call me frugal, but I did not like the hugh drop in value after only 3 years. Good fun to drive but not worth the cost.
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      08-22-2012, 07:56 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woland's Advocate View Post
Yes, sorry, was just having a dumb moment - blame it on the end of the day and the fact that both my current BMWs are NA (straight six and V10).

Anyway, I've ordered an M135i 5dr to replace the M5. Better be good then!
Is that the 'rather unfortunate-looking' F20 style you so like
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      08-22-2012, 10:06 AM   #40
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Yes, I ordered one on the basis of what it was likely to be like to drive, not look at. After all, you sit inside it, not outside staring at it...
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      08-22-2012, 10:30 AM   #41
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http://blog.caranddriver.com/m-perfo...next-gen-bmws/
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      08-22-2012, 12:23 PM   #42
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actually I was thinking more between the 1M and the M135i
I ordered the M135i with 5 doors (we dont have the 3 doors here, WTF)
for a slight premium I should be able to get a very low mileage 1M instead
and the M135i has an unknown delivery date

I will probably be happier with an 1M, but the M135i does seem like a better daily drive

what do you guys think? should I go for an 1M instead?
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      08-22-2012, 04:06 PM   #43
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http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...5i_review.html

Many reviews just like this. Just search.
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      08-22-2012, 04:40 PM   #44
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actually I was thinking more between the 1M and the M135i
I ordered the M135i with 5 doors (we dont have the 3 doors here, WTF)
for a slight premium I should be able to get a very low mileage 1M instead
and the M135i has an unknown delivery date

I will probably be happier with an 1M, but the M135i does seem like a better daily drive

what do you guys think? should I go for an 1M instead?
The 1M is a wonderful machine and I would love to have one, but from experience, I should think it's a slightly extreme driving experience for daily usage.

The M135i is not a car I have yet driven, but I expect it to provide most of the performance and thrills but in a more user-friendly and practical package.

A 1M is practical for a coupe. An M135i, particularly in 5dr form, is just practical full-stop.

However, the 1M is verging on iconic and the M135i is unlikely to do the same, so really it's whatever you prefer.
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