[Jason]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

BMW NA probably just can't make the numbers work for the F20, unfortunately. When you consider the relatively low price such a car would have to be offered for here, you'd probably need to move a not-insignificant number of units just make it a break-even scenario, much less to make a decent profit.

That's spot on as the reason why we don't see the hatchback make it here.

[Jblack4083]

Originally Posted by sahyoun

they should just make another crazy v12 only this time keep it for themselves and not sell it to mclaren

They already have one inside the 760i and the Rolls Royce cars.

[thok47]

Is there any rough time frame for the M1/235i in NA?

[mkoesel]

Current rumor points toward both the F22 and F32 mid next year, while the F82 is slated for late in 2014.

http://www.bimmerpost.com/future-bmw/

So, I think it is a safe guess to put the F22 M235i somewhere in there too. I realize it's a pretty large window, but it is at least something to go on for now.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Pavel

can somebody please let me know what the big deal is about selling hatchback BMWs in North America? I mean, why is BMW refusing to do so? Do Americans generally hate hatchbacks?

Its not that we hate hatchbacks. For some reason we (not me) just hate paying 35k for one. For some reason they have a lower class image here.

[MI6]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I don't think Americans hate hatchbacks per se, it is just that not many of us buy them for one reason or another. Ther are notable exceptions such as a GTI or Mazda 3, and obviously Audi has found a business case for the A3. But, by and large, hatchbacks sell in small numbers here. BMW NA probably just can't make the numbers work for the F20, unfortunately. When you consider the relatively low price such a car would have to be offered for here, you'd probably need to move a not-insignificant number of units just make it a break-even scenario, much less to make a decent profit.

Mkoesel- when did you make moderator?......congrats!

Have to admit though- it'll be tough not seeing all those General stars.....lol

-Bond

[vladberca]

Haha, paying 35K $ in US seems a lot, but paying 50K Euro here, how can be?
The xdrive version will compete with Golf R and RS3, the "sdrive" version will be the rival for AMG A Class! Can t wait for the first comparos

[hemi to e90]

motor wise though, whats the development of the N55?

i dont see it being the #s game we are used to. and that, well its disappointing isnt it?

[D.I.P.]

F**k BMW for not offering this in the us!

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by Pavel

That does makes sense. Thanks for the explanation
I guess when it comes down to it, it's all about numbers.

No it still doesn't make sense. The f20 doesn't have to undercut the f30 by that much, they could still make a decent profit on it. And, on the flipside, I don't think it will cut into f30 sales either b/c it is smaller and a wagon.

I, for one, would gladly pay over $50K for this M135i if it turns out to be what it seems to be. I think the real reason BMW doesn't bring this over is b/c of the disaster experiment that was the 318ti e36. I think those poor sales burned bmw as far as entry compact hatches/wagons for the american market. We are still suffering today.

[SCOTT26]

BMW cannot market the F20 to enable a profit return in the US. For BMW to do so they have to sell a fully fledged base model which customers would not accept because it does not fit within their perspective of BMW's image.

It is the same with the Premium wagon. Only Mercedes offer a E-Klasse wagon with BMW,Volvo and Audi withdrawn because of the appeal of an SUV over a Premium Wagon. But the E-Klasse Wagon has come up against the same problem - Customers are taking the ML over the E.
BMW will offer the 3er Touring as the car was federalized at the development stage. They will not bring back the 5er Touring on the sole reason that the millions to federalise the car would not be recovered in sales and there is no justification just to generate a handfull of sales.

[PostModernHero]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

But the E-Klasse Wagon has come up against the same problem - Customers are taking the ML over the E.

That's because its UGLY and looks like a squashed mini-van. Not because it is a wagon.

With regards to the F-11 (a beauty in comparison), not bringing it here displays incredible short-sightedness on BMW's part... IMO.

[ATX78703]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

BMW cannot market the F20 to enable a profit return in the US. For BMW to do so they have to sell a fully fledged base model which customers would not accept because it does not fit within their perspective of BMW's image.

It is the same with the Premium wagon. Only Mercedes offer a E-Klasse wagon with BMW,Volvo and Audi withdrawn because of the appeal of an SUV over a Premium Wagon. But the E-Klasse Wagon has come up against the same problem - Customers are taking the ML over the E.
BMW will offer the 3er Touring as the car was federalized at the development stage. They will not bring back the 5er Touring on the sole reason that the millions to federalise the car would not be recovered in sales and there is no justification just to generate a handfull of sales.

I agree with you on all points except "For BMW to do so they have to sell a fully fledged base model which customers would not accept because it does not fit within their perspective of BMW's image." This is just pure speculation.

[Q4P]

If this M135i gets hydraulic steering, sign me up immediately.

[e92ben]

RS3 time!

[JulieDriving]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Current rumor points toward both the F22 and F32 mid next year, while the F82 is slated for late in 2014.

http://www.bimmerpost.com/future-bmw/

So, I think it is a safe guess to put the F22 M235i somewhere in there too. I realize it's a pretty large window, but it is at least something to go on for now.

mkoesel = moderator =

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

No it still doesn't make sense. The f20 doesn't have to undercut the f30 by that much, they could still make a decent profit on it. And, on the flipside, I don't think it will cut into f30 sales either b/c it is smaller and a wagon.

I, for one, would gladly pay over $50K for this M135i if it turns out to be what it seems to be. I think the real reason BMW doesn't bring this over is b/c of the disaster experiment that was the 318ti e36. I think those poor sales burned bmw as far as entry compact hatches/wagons for the american market. We are still suffering today.

Well, that was a long time ago, they have learnt their lesson. I think they would profit big time taking on the GTI and A3 in the states.
Here's hoping you guys get to experience the M135i

[terrapen73]

I have been writing BMWNA since 2007 to bring the 3 door hatch 1 series to the US. The only response I have ever gotten is that it is being considered. I used to have a 2002 M Coupe and the 135i 3 door has a similar look. I like it. In M135i form it would be spectacular. I hope that they will at least make a M135i in coupe form for the US.

[E46M54325Ci]

so wait, we're getting the rwd coupe, but not the awd hatch? why can't there be an awd coupe? figure it out bmw

[pascaldan]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

I agree with you on all points except "For BMW to do so they have to sell a fully fledged base model which customers would not accept because it does not fit within their perspective of BMW's image." This is just pure speculation.

I'm not sure if customers not accepting it means people wouldn't buy it, or more like bmwna thinks it will hurt the brand's image. It's funny though because if they did bring it, they'd say, well look at all these customers now buying a BMW who would never have considered one before.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

I don't understand, what is so exciting, the stripes ? the M135i will be an 135i with Power Kit (+20 lousy hp) and M-Sport suspension and a few other tweaks including dozens of M badges.

I could not help but crack up at the "dozens" LOLOL

[formula M]

Originally Posted by Jason

That's spot on as the reason why we don't see the hatchback make it here.

I know of at least 6~7 people who want an upscale sporty hatchback. Note, a wagon is not a hatchback.

Secondly, an overwhelming majority of the 35 ~ 45 year olds, grew up in the 80's... when every car was a hatchback....

Escort GT
Mustang GT
Comaro
Firebird
Corvette
Omni GLH
Chevette
VW Carrado
Conquest TSi

I can go on & on... the point being is we grew up on these extremely utilitarian vehicles and we learned efficient packing methods. But more importantly how damn phun they are. To this day i really wish my e30 M3 was a hatch... I had stuff strapped all over it as I traveled.

Those who live an active lifestyle don't want to give up their SPORT.. of driving either. Hatchback's have minimal performance deltas between the coupe variants, but the utilitarian and value it adds for family life is (again) incalculable...!



Also:
$52k for an M2 Hatchback... did BMW take notice of the 1 Series M coupe lines? I bet BMW would have no problem selling performance hatchbacks & that 15,000 American males would ante up the same for one of these nimble hatches.. that is, if the design was given respect (CF usage on body panels).

But BMW has vastly underestimated how much Americans travel and how many of us don't want to leave thier M's in the garage, they want to take their sports car with them, wherever they go.. because I visit Lowes more than I do the Glen, uno?

... take heed, the value of a utilitarian sport car is unimaginable.



If not^, at least offer us 'Mericans to import them, because a 6 speed manual xDrive on an M235 sound damn enticing in hatch form.



AWD + Manual =