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      02-16-2012, 01:40 PM   #1
wolz
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RFTtyres + antispin = epic fail?

Don't know if the subject has been discussed already, in that case sorry for bringing it up again.

is it only me that find the car not drive-able with the antispin enabled? I have to turn it off all the time to be able to drive normally.

If it don't turn it off, the antispin-symbol on the dash flashes like a strobe-light whenever I push the accelerator (even if pushed extremely gently). I can't be the only one annoyed by this? And I'm not talking about accelerating on ice, I'm talking about any condition, even at perfect dry tarmac where it's perfect grip, the antispin-symbol start flash whatever gear or speed I'm in including highwayspeed.

Appart from the annoyance of the symbol flashing on the dash, it kills the driving experience because the engine output is reduced to nothing.

any ideas as to why the antispin kicks in for absolutely no reason? is this a problem with RFT-tyres? or is it just a problem with winter-tyre-RFT? or is it a problem whatever tyre you have, summer or winter?

What's your experience guys?

I've actually tried another set of tyres, first of I had bridgestone blizzak, had them changed to nokia hakkapeliita R (both RFT of course). Exakt same symptom. This is ridiculous
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      02-16-2012, 01:51 PM   #2
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I think wintertyres make the difference...have exact the same with my SEAT...
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      02-16-2012, 06:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolz View Post
Don't know if the subject has been discussed already, in that case sorry for bringing it up again.

is it only me that find the car not drive-able with the antispin enabled? I have to turn it off all the time to be able to drive normally.

If it don't turn it off, the antispin-symbol on the dash flashes like a strobe-light whenever I push the accelerator (even if pushed extremely gently). I can't be the only one annoyed by this? And I'm not talking about accelerating on ice, I'm talking about any condition, even at perfect dry tarmac where it's perfect grip, the antispin-symbol start flash whatever gear or speed I'm in including highwayspeed.

Appart from the annoyance of the symbol flashing on the dash, it kills the driving experience because the engine output is reduced to nothing.

any ideas as to why the antispin kicks in for absolutely no reason? is this a problem with RFT-tyres? or is it just a problem with winter-tyre-RFT? or is it a problem whatever tyre you have, summer or winter?

What's your experience guys?

I've actually tried another set of tyres, first of I had bridgestone blizzak, had them changed to nokia hakkapeliita R (both RFT of course). Exakt same symptom. This is ridiculous
Seems your car has a faulty ESP or something like that... With mine, it's pretty hard to have the ESP light flash, even with low temperature or wet roads.
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      02-17-2012, 02:48 AM   #4
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Still waiting for the 120d, but with the F12 with Nokian Hakka RFT this is not a problem, in spite of more power on the wheels.
Probably a faulty ESP as stated by did75.
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      02-18-2012, 04:28 AM   #5
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Hello, our 116d had this problem with the Traction Control Warning light when pressed the gas pedal. But in sport mode, it was ok. But now the car is run 8000 km and this problem is no longer. maybe it's because the tires must be run. and is brand new. we've Nokkia hakka r run flat. 205/55/16. Maybe new tires are too soft in the rubber and therefore this problem, I guess.
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      02-18-2012, 05:13 AM   #6
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The system should only work when it detects wheel spin.

Either you've got a fault, your're spanking the throttle, or you're driving in snow the entire time.
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      02-18-2012, 01:27 PM   #7
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Thanks for your replies. Noticed while googling that this issue is pretty comon.

bimmer man, great to hear you had the same experience even with the same tyres as me, and it dissapeard after a couple of thousand kms.

indeed, sport+ or manually disable anti-spin is the solution. I don't mind that much since I prefer to go sideways whenever possible but it's pretty crap for those who want maximum security having the system activated. Or if I were to lend my car to someone who does not know of this issue. Better add a sticker to the dash "attempting an overtake without disabling the security-system will kill you" ;p

funny how a securitysystem turns the car into a death-trap rather than adding security :S

Like if you'r trying to overtake another vehicle and you change lane and start accelerating, rather than accelerating quickly doing a quick overtake, you end up with the engine capped to like 1hp and super-slow acceleration resulting in an overtaking attempt taking ages with a possible head-on colission instead, even if the road surface provide perfect grip.

Is it fair to say that bmw screwed up when they went down the no-spare-tyre path? making the car RFT-only not taking into account the issues appearing for those who live in "winter-countries" where we must have winter-tyres that clearly are not compatible with the antispin (atleast not the first coulpe of 1000kms).

I'll have a word with bmw, but since there are several discussions regarding this matter on the web, I don't expect a solution.
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      02-18-2012, 03:16 PM   #8
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Hello Wolz. tested the demo 116d car with summer tires, before the snow came. It had no problems with traction control, so it is winter wheels because they are so soft that they trick the traction control. 120 d is well fun to drive with lots of power and then the traction control issue more than 116 d. Drove today to try to bring up this issue with traction control, no flashing tion in instrumetpanel. Our car is healthy now, I think that the tires have been harder after 8000km. good luck with your car.
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      02-18-2012, 03:24 PM   #9
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Sounds like a problem with your car.

The cars are tested in development on both BMW's and the systems manufacturers winter testing ground on both snow and ice.

Doubtfull it would be the RFT as these have been used since the E90 in "winter countries" without problems


Also going into Sport+ or pressing the traction control button activates DTC. It does not deactivate anti-spin.
DTC allows more wheel spin than the standard DSC, but all the safety features are still there.
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      02-18-2012, 04:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet View Post
Sounds like a problem with your car.

The cars are tested in development on both BMW's and the systems manufacturers winter testing ground on both snow and ice.

Doubtfull it would be the RFT as these have been used since the E90 in "winter countries" without problems


Also going into Sport+ or pressing the traction control button activates DTC. It does not deactivate anti-spin.
DTC allows more wheel spin than the standard DSC, but all the safety features are still there.
Scandinavian winter tires are much softer rubber than the rest of europe running with, these Scandinavian tires have max speed of 170 km / h And there is nothing wrong with our car now
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      02-19-2012, 07:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet View Post
Sounds like a problem with your car.

The cars are tested in development on both BMW's and the systems manufacturers winter testing ground on both snow and ice.

Doubtfull it would be the RFT as these have been used since the E90 in "winter countries" without problems


Also going into Sport+ or pressing the traction control button activates DTC. It does not deactivate anti-spin.
DTC allows more wheel spin than the standard DSC, but all the safety features are still there.
you'r wrong about sport+ or pressing traction control once. Doing that allows for quite some wheelspin and even some drifting. Big difference compared to having everything enabled. Press and hold the button for about 5sec turns everything completely off though.

sure the car is tested on winter testing ground and while driving on ice and/or snow at -15 celsius there is no surprise that the anti-spin symbol flash all the time. The thing is that it happens at +5 celcius weather-condition on wet or even dry roads with perfect grip.

Seeing that there are numerous threads about this issue on scandinavian forums it seems that this is a design-flaw rather than everyone with the problem have a faulty dtc/dsc-unit. Apparently the issue was present on the previous 1-series, and is still there. A shame they don't sort it out. perhaps the countries with strong winters make up a pretty small market-share seen globally, so bmw don't bother that much about it.

I think bimmer-man has a good theory about it.

could indeed be that the system is calibrated too tight and in conjuction with our softer rubber, perhaps during acceleration the tyre flex/bend/twist a little making the dtc/dsc-unit think that the traction is lost when it is in fact not.
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      02-19-2012, 10:05 AM   #12
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wolz. Yes. Just what I mean.
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      11-19-2012, 03:13 AM   #13
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Hi. I have had my 116i M sport for 10 days now, and got it delivered on Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7 RFT stud tires, 205/55-16.
Have got exactly the same problem as stated here - was doing some long distance driving this weekend, and had a couple of scary overtakings when driving in comfort and sport mode. When doing about 80 in 5th or 6th gear, and overtaking, the DSC started blinking, and extremely little throttle response. I had the throttle in the same position during overtaking, and switched it into Sport+, and the car just boosts forward!

For info, the car is driven 800km now, it may have something to do with it. I'll have a call to my local dealer, and hear what they have to say about it.
It was not an issue at all on the 116d M sport with 18" RFT wheels we tested earlier this autumn.
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      11-19-2012, 03:50 AM   #14
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I even had this problem with the ASC system on my E36 323ti, so it is nothing new. It is also not related to runflat tires. It is about soft winter tires made for Nordic conditions. Luckily I found a fix for it. The Michelin X-Ice tires have a more rigid tread design than tires like Nokian and Continental, and they work rather well with the traction control on ice. In deep snow, you are always better off without traction control (or at least partly off in Sport+/Traction mode).

When I was a skid pan instructor, we used to mention that you should consider disabling traction control and stability systems when overtaking cars in winter conditions, for safety reasons. This should only be done if you have the relevant driving skills to cope with a sliding car. If not, you are usually better off not overtaking the car.
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      11-19-2012, 04:52 AM   #15
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By a mobility-kit and some real tires instead problem solved
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      11-20-2012, 03:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madick1 View Post
By a mobility-kit and some real tires instead problem solved
Real tyres? as in non RFT? According to Ovekvam the issue is not related to RFT only.
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      11-20-2012, 05:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolz View Post
Real tyres? as in non RFT? According to Ovekvam the issue is not related to RFT only.
I had no problem at all last winter in my E91 325dt on non RFT bridgestone 18" anyways.
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      11-20-2012, 07:02 AM   #18
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I think the combination of large tire profile (55 profile) and very soft rubber, fucks with the DSC, no matter if it's RFT or non RFT. It was not a problem on the car with 18" and 35 profile RFT tires I tested earlier.
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      11-20-2012, 07:40 AM   #19
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I cannot comment on winter tyres, sun shines most of the year here. however, the only time the light has flashed in my car was going full throttle on a 90 deg bend in comfort mode with stock tyres.
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      11-20-2012, 07:44 AM   #20
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No, our car works fine with 205/55-16. It has to do with tread design. Michelin has sipes that lock together when they are bent, causing less tire squirm. Another benefit is less tire wear. The X-Ice tires last longer than Nokian/Continental.
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